Yamaha CP4 & Roland RD-800; why different?

[Groove On]

WHY? do these two boards sound and feel so different? I'm leaning towards the CP4, but I just wanna figure out what's nagging me about the RD-800, cuz maybe I'm just plain wrong :-)

 

OUT OF THE BOX

To me, out of the box the CP4 sounds like a grand, while the RD-800 sounds like a stand-up (not a problem for me, I can go either way). It's like the attack & decay on the CP4 are slower, while on the RD-800 they are faster. So the CP4 notes are more full, more "resonant" while the RD-800 notes sound <EDIT> more clear and with a clear resonant decay. Either I way, I'd be happy with both. I dropped by the local Steinway store, and was able to find different pianos with similar characteristics to both, so personally, they sound like pianos with different personalities.

 

INSTRUMENT, subjectively, I really like playing the CP4, it feels/sounds like an "instrument". The Roland feels like a digital keyboard (a bad-ass digital keyboard!), but that's why I'm leaning towards the CP4. Just want to be sure I'm really feeling/hearing what I'm feeling/hearing.

 

CONTROLS, I prefer the way Roland setup up the Tone Control and Layering (Live Sets), elegant and slick. The CP4 isn't as cool in that respect, but it's still really simple and powerful, nicely designed when it comes to Setup and Layering (Performances). I tried to use the controls to get the keyboards to sound more like each other, and succeeded in some respects, but each keyboard still has a unique personality that bleeds through, trying to figure out what that is.

 

MARKETING

Yeah I'm a sucker, my wallet keeps falling to floor when I see the the catch lines "Best Digital Piano We've Built" and "Super NATURAL Piano".

 

Anyway, would love to hear your take on these two keyboards! What do you think?

[Brettymike]

There is quite a pillow fight about these 2 keyboards not far back in the pages around here you will find , and you had better make sure you check out the Kurzweil Forte , it smokes both of them (for sound at least) IMO.

 

Brett

[Groove On]

I like that "a pillow fight". Yes I will be happy with either one. I'll look for that thread ... and a store with a Kurzweil Forte.

[Kawai James]

[cough]Kawai MP7[/cough]

[sMatt]

i compared the CP4 and RD-800 and hated the CP-4 action and liked the RD-800 action so I went with the RD-800.

 

 

Because I hated the CP4 action so much, I didn't spend any time comparing the sounds. I figured both keyboard have good enough sounds. For me, the most important thing is how I'm able to play it.

[WesG]

I haven't played the CP4, but I've played the CP5 for a few "big band" rehearsals. I have played the RD800 in the store. Both are fine units and will get the job done. I am a big Yamaha fan, and have used Yamaha pianos all my life. I believe that Yamaha has always had the best-sounding digital pianos. Remember that Yamaha also makes top-of-the-line grand pianos, and that these are the pianos they sample for their digital pianos.

 

My best advice is -- don't be overly concerned with the subtle nuances of the sounds if you are truly interested in playing in bands again. The best standalone piano sounds are often terribly muddy in a band setting. I tend to pick bright, thin, pianos when playing with a band. A knob to turn down the bass and turn up the treble is handy, as is a way to quickly kill the reverb. The 5-band EQ on the CP5 is great for that, I believe the CP4 has that too. Being able to quickly adjust my EQ helps me tune my sound to the room and people I'm playing with.

 

The action on the CP5 was so good I couldn't believe it when I played it. I made up my mind within about 6 seconds that I had to have a piano with the same action, which is why I see a CP4 purchase in my future. I liked how responsive the action was, it was as if I was playing a grand piano with double escapement. I also liked how wide a dynamic range I had on this piano compared to my daily driver. The difference between ppp and fff on the CP5 (and presumably CP4) is astounding. This lets me play with a lot of nuance....or dial it back with the built-in compressor.

 

http://www.digitalpianoreviewguide.com/yamaha-cp4-review/

http://www.digitalpianoreviewguide.com/roland-rd-800-review/

 

But, you really can't go wrong with either. Side by side, I would probably pick whichever one was faster.

 

Wes

[16251]

[Dana.]

The action on the CP5 was so good I couldn't believe it when I played it. I made up my mind within about 6 seconds that I had to have a piano with the same action, which is why I see a CP4 purchase in my future.

The CP5 and CP4 do not share the same action. The CP5 action is more shallow.

[Marko in Boston]

I really like playing the CP4, it feels/sounds like an "instrument". The Roland feels like a digital keyboard (a bad-ass digital keyboard!),

 

This is good observation that I tend to agree with. I own an RD800 and played a CP4 many times. I love the action of both, while I prefer the Roland action I find the CP4 a little more organic or "instrument" like. However, I find the AP sounds in the RD800 a little more organic than the CP4. It's all about your personal taste and what you connect with.

 

Check out the MP7 too. Might be perfect compromise and certainly better price. And since you are sucker for marketing "Kawai MP7... The Performer's Stage Piano"

 

 

[Mickey Keys]

Not much I can add to this, except that I just replaced a 700NX with a CP4.

 

Yeah, I miss the far easier layer, split and MIDI interface on the RD, but not so much that I won't get over it.

 

I like the CP4 action *much* better, and to my semi-educated ears the pianos sit better in our mix right out of the box.

 

But hey, that's just me . . . YMMV as always.

 

[Jazz+]

Did an extensive side by side in a music store thru the same stereo motion sound amp. Fast jazz improv was more effortless on the CP4 action (RD 800 action offered more physical resistance) and CP4 piano and rhodes sound had better presence in that somewhat noisy live environment. It was a good and thorough test in terms of action and live room environment (CP4 had superior live room presence). All I care about is piano sound for live performance and key action for enabling performance. I do not care about the other features because I am a pianist, not a midi- multi- tone "keyboardist."

[Dana.]

Did an extensive side by side in a music store thru the same stereo motion sound amp. Fast jazz improv was more effortless on the CP4 action (RD 800 action offered more physical resistance) and CP4 piano and rhodes sound had better presence in that somewhat noisy live environment. It was a good and thorough test.

:idk

[JeffLearman]

I recently got a CP4 and I love the sound and action. It feels more piano-like than any other digital I've played. I'm a big fan of Yamaha acoustic pianos, but would have liked it if they'd also put a Steinway in there. Not gonna happen!

 

I don't know much about the RD-800, but the RD-700 is a considerably more flexible instrument: more "user serviceable" controls inside. They don't really compare in that regard. Furthermore, the RD700 has a usable organ, whereas the CP4 does not. That's not an issue for me since I use the Electro for that. The CP4 is also a bit hobbled as an integrated instrument and controller: you can't effectively use its internal sounds AND more than two zones (some of them external) without putting it in LOCAL mode and doing a lot of external programming.

 

The CP4 at 38 lbs is heavier than I'd like; it replaces a 55-lb piano so it's a big improvement. No way I'd buy a 48-lb DP today. I keep instruments a long time, and in 13 years I'll be 60!

[JeffLearman]

Yeah, I miss the far easier layer, split and MIDI interface on the RD, but not so much that I won't get over it.

I'm trying to figure out how the layer/split controls could be much simpler and easier to use than the CP4. As bad as it is at some things, that's what it's really good at, at least, for internal sounds.

 

Want to split? Press the SPLIT button! Pick a sound (though, if you want a user-crafted preset sound, not so simple.) To change the split point, just hold the SPLIT button and press a key.

 

Want to add a layer? Press the LAYER button, bingo. Pick the sound the same way as for SPLIT.

 

Volume slider for each of the three parts.

 

For the MIDI interface, I'd be shocked if the RD wasn't significantly better. So, if you meant using split/layer with external sounds, sure. It does them OK but a little fiddly. But if you want 3 or 4 zones (including internal sounds), forget it, it's a total PITA.

[Suppport Guy]

 

Enjoy!

[lekanout]

I had the 2,spent all my summer to play the CP 4.

The CP4 keyboards sounds/keybed are very good for me.

No problem it's a matter of taste.

But for the first time i had a delusion with a yamaha.

 

I kept the roland and while i don't want to say one is better for keyboards sounds(there is no truth)i consider the RD800 superior for all the rest outside the keyboards sounds.

 

I think the yam is a little too expensive for what it offers compared to the roland and the MP7(for exemple)

 

Too much consumer plastic,poor screen...

You can do layers,some programming etc etc(i did that to edit all my sounds for my live configuration)but all that is boring on the yam when it's pleasant and more powerful on the roland or kawai.

 

So i sold it and really never regret,when i have at the opposite a real organic relation with the roland at home or on stage.

 

if you forget specs and just consider a piano sound played on the CP4,no problem it's a good instrument.

 

But(just me)while i consider the keybed good for the 2,i prefer a little more the roland pianos.

 

Here are my feelings about these instruments.

Another thing:

on stage i love my RD800(i found my way with it now after some live sessions)but the CP4 never delused me on stage.

 

The problem with the Cp4 are interface and functions:

You are in the nineties with the yam,in 2014 with the roland.

 

The global soundset and versatility are superior too on the RD for me.

Tons of different keyboards sounds:

-a kind of roland story with so many different instruments,brand new eps far better than the 700 nx(i had one before)and on par with the best contender(it was a weakness on old RD)..

-And so much to play for synth sounds!

 

A big advantage with the yam is the weight(i bought it at first to second my rd800 on little scenes because of the weight and the yamaha quality)

But when a key has broken after a gig(i don't know why)i had a bad feeling..and loose all my connexion with it.

[16251]

 

Enjoy!

At 13:25 he nails Pat Metheny's synth guitar.

 

I think this demo is great example of the player making the difference. I'm sure he could make any other popular DP sound amazing. I'm not dissing the CP4, since I own one and like it very much. Currently though I use like 4 sounds.

[Dave Ferris]

I've had the CP4 since May (coming from the Nord Piano 2), and like Peter, I probably use 4 sounds- 90% of the time the CF Grand, then sparingly, a rhodes & wurli with the occasional pad on the AP.

 

For what I do and how I play , I can't imagine getting anything better (maybe just different) then the CP4 for what's available at this time.

 

I wouldn't mind having a RD800, but mainly for the drum sounds/grooves (for singles when I do LH bass/vocals) more then the piano or action.

 

Plus it's what , 10-12 lbs. heavier then the Yamaha ? edit-ok looked it up- the 800 is barely 10 lbs heavier but it is 2 inches wider then the Yamaha and an inch deeper.

 

So it takes up more room on ever shrinking stages/set up spaces. Plus it's harder to get a grip on then the CP4 when maneuvering into its case and lifting on/off the keyboard stand.

 

For all the Pro players I know in LA, most use the CP4 when going with a *newer* stage piano. I don't get out as much as I used to, but I've never seen anyone with the RD800...although it hasn't been out a year yet to be fair.

[keyguy]

I've had the CP4 since May (coming from the Nord Piano 2), and like Peter, I probably use 4 sounds- 90% of the time the CF Grand, then sparingly, a rhodes & wurli with the occasional pad on the AP.

 

For what I do and how I play , I can't imagine getting anything better (maybe just different) then the CP4 for what's available at this time.

 

I wouldn't mind having a RD800, but mainly for the drum sounds/grooves (for singles when I do LH bass/vocals) more then the piano or action.

 

Plus it's what , 10-12 lbs. heavier then the Yamaha ? edit-ok looked it up- the 800 is barely 10 lbs heavier but it is 2 inches wider then the Yamaha and an inch deeper.

 

So it takes up more room on ever shrinking stages/set up spaces. Plus it's harder to get a grip on then the CP4 when maneuvering into its case and lifting on/off the keyboard stand.

 

For all the Pro players I know in LA, most use the CP4 when going with a *newer* stage piano. I don't get out as much as I used to, but I've never seen anyone with the RD800...although it hasn't been out a year yet to be fair.

 

I use 3 or 4 sounds, as well. I'm sure I could be called lazy for not utilizing the board to it's fullest, but I'm kind of set in my ways. The action is unsurpassed, at least to me. My SK-1 covers the rest. And, when I have the real estate the infamous Accugroove rig makes it sound GREAT. Merry Christmas, Dave! I hope this finds you well!

[lekanout]

I've had the CP4 since May (coming from the Nord Piano 2), and like Peter, I probably use 4 sounds- 90% of the time the CF Grand, then sparingly, a rhodes & wurli with the occasiona

 

That's the point!

The CP4 is made for simple things and for musicians who don't have to do more complicated things.

Some good sounds to play with a good keybed.

I think it is perfect for that,and like i already said maybe the yamaha sound is well apreciated for jazz music.

I think he rd800 is better for musicians who wants to cover more.

You can quickly access with the interface to another world for a large palette of cover,various sounds etc etc..

A good friend of mine who play in genesis tribute band sold the CP4 after 1 month,and bought a RD800(even if he had other synths):

He feels exactly the same as me about the roland power.

 

Last thing:

For classical people for exemple there is no consensus about yamaha or roland.

 

I really think in conclusion than people who play the CP4 don't program so much with it:

They just need the good keybed/sound connection well done on the yam for some sounds,and that's all!

That's why the interface weakness isn't a problem.

 

[RABid]

Acoustic pianos are very different across brands, and what you grew up with can affect what you want or expect from a digital piano. I like the Roland action and the CP4 sound. However, I went with a Nord Stage 2 because of weight. :idk

 

After playing crap pianos for years I'm happy with any of these.

[Dave Ferris]

I've had the CP4 since May (coming from the Nord Piano 2), and like Peter, I probably use 4 sounds- 90% of the time the CF Grand, then sparingly, a rhodes & wurli with the occasional pad on the AP.

 

For what I do and how I play , I can't imagine getting anything better (maybe just different) then the CP4 for what's available at this time.

 

I wouldn't mind having a RD800, but mainly for the drum sounds/grooves (for singles when I do LH bass/vocals) more then the piano or action.

 

Plus it's what , 10-12 lbs. heavier then the Yamaha ? edit-ok looked it up- the 800 is barely 10 lbs heavier but it is 2 inches wider then the Yamaha and an inch deeper.

 

So it takes up more room on ever shrinking stages/set up spaces. Plus it's harder to get a grip on then the CP4 when maneuvering into its case and lifting on/off the keyboard stand.

 

For all the Pro players I know in LA, most use the CP4 when going with a *newer* stage piano. I don't get out as much as I used to, but I've never seen anyone with the RD800...although it hasn't been out a year yet to be fair.

 

I use 3 or 4 sounds, as well. I'm sure I could be called lazy for not utilizing the board to it's fullest, but I'm kind of set in my ways. The action is unsurpassed, at least to me. My SK-1 covers the rest. And, when I have the real estate the infamous Accugroove rig makes it sound GREAT. Merry Christmas, Dave! I hope this finds you well!

 

Hi Jim. Merry Christmas to you and thanks. Yes, comin' up on mile 23 of the Marathon. Will be finished next week with my radiation treatments.

 

Yes, I guess I'm equally as lazy using only a piano sound most of the time.

[Mark Schmieder]

Finally, finally, finally, I got to compare apples to apples today at my local GC, with the same Yamaha speakers on both the Yamaha CP4 and the Roland RD800.

 

For my purposes, the CP4 slaughtered the RD800. There was some phasiness to the RD800 sound that I could tell wouldn't sit in the mix without a lot of work. The Yamaha sounds cut through but are neither harsh nor abrasive, and the three basic piano choices are so distinct that almost any genre or style is covered. It reacted well to jazz, classical, and rock playing styles with equal aplomb.

 

Also, I found the escapement faster and more natural on the CP4.

 

The RD800, nevertheless, is a very good digital piano. I think it's a big step up from the previous generation, but even with the textured keys, it just doesn't feel like a piano to me; whereas the Yamaha seems very much a piano vs. a weighted synth. Part of this may be the pivot point of the keys, but I also felt the CP4's keys were sturdier and that the Roland keys wiggled side-to-side more than I would like (giving a synth feel).

 

I still think the RD800 kills the CP4 as an overall stage instrument, due to more intuitive and faster interface and workflow, and a wider range of usable sounds. As my only interest these days is in the home, the CP4 would be my choice, but it also gives me more confidence that I'd be better off still with a Clavinova (non-portable model).

[allan_evett]

[cough]Kawai MP7[/cough]

 

 

Would be great if more stores had the RD800, CP4, and MP7 available for side-by-side comparison. Lots of goodness in that MP7. It's control interface is more intuitive than the CP4's, and slightly more comprehensive than that of the RD800. It reminds me more of Roland's late 1990's/early 2000's stage keyboards - especially with regard to MIDI control. Very strong playability factor, too. Pianos don't quite sound like anyone else's, since they're based on Kawai samples.