Wich keyboard for jazz trio gigs (as a second voice/effects)

[Dextroze]

Hi !

 

"My name is Dexter, i'm a french jazz pianist.

 

Recently, I decided I wanted to add in my play on stage a keyboard. I want to use different sounds, work on them etc. Theremore, I could use a good weighted keyboard since I don't always play on acoustic pianos !

 

I tried the roland rd-800, wich in my novice opinion in keyboards sounded great ! But is it good as a midi controller ? Does it have to be a midi controller since the sounds are great and that you can do things hardware-wise ?

 

What amp should I buy ?

 

My maximum budget is 3000$...So much money for me !!!

 

It's been 3 days i'm looking for good musicians advices, but it's hard to find this kind of thing in french:)

 

I hope somebody can help me here !

 

Thanks

"

 

That was an old post I posted several days ago !

 

I know better now what to look for.

 

I hesitate between the RD-800, the Kawai mp-7 and the Jupiter-80 (in france there is a guy who sold it for 2200 $ I think it's a good price no ? (occasion)

 

The last choice would be a midi controller like the rd-64 with native instrument 10...

 

I need glitchy sounds, pads, things to add on stage while i have an acoustic piano... But in the best case scenario, if i'm able to practice on it a bit or take it for gigs (without acoustic piano) that's even better.

 

Can the jupiter do that ?

 

PS: Thanks for the guys who already answer me : I have to try them also, very soon, but any additional advice is appreciated !!

 

Have a good day

[Raymb1]

Have a look at the Casio PX 5s. Ray

[Tusker]

I am currently using an RD-64 with soft synths, and as much as I love the ease of use, the action is pretty slow. I think of it as a good keyboard for bigger outfits where I am playing a smaller role. Not for trio. YMMV.

 

I think you need a best of breed piano solution for gigs (with the kind of responsiveness that makes you comfortable) and a separate solution (software or hardware) for sound design/synthesis. If you do the synthesis in a computer, you won't need the master controller features nearly as much (switching zones on and off).

 

Most of the stage pianos will have your basic pads and strings, so those are not the issue. It's the other synthesis stuff that is a little tricky and it's difficult to advise someone because everyone's workflow and ergonomics preferences are different. You won't know what works for you till you dip your toe in the water. Controlling those sounds live will invariably need buttons, knobs, sliders, and/or pedals ... regardless of your choice of main keyboard. (imo) Over time, you will develop your own strong preferences, however.

[nickd]

Not directly answering your question, but my solution to adding extra pads/glitchy sounds to a jazz piano gig is to run my piano through a Line 6 Pod XT effects pedal - lots of potential to add delays, distortion, reverse delay, tremolo etc.

[ProfD]

The Casio PX5 would cover every base as a stage piano/synth providing that the FTEC (finger-to-ear connection) is there.

 

However, if you're committed to a Roland RD800 or Kawai MP7 and need an additional KB for more variety in "other" sounds, look at a ROMpler like the Yamaha MX49/61 or Korg Kross.

 

Those ROmplers can be used for rehearsals either as a lighter-weight, standalone solution and/or in conjunction with an acoustic piano.

 

The Roland Jupiter 80 is a very nice synth (expensive) with an unweighted KB. Otherwise, it will also serve as a standalone all-in-one solution too.

 

Again, that's why it is important to spend time playing all of these KBs. Hopefully, one of them will stand out among the rest in terms of how it feels and sounds underneath your fingers.

[Dana.]

Apparently people will suggest the Casio PX-5S for anything these days. Guess it's the new Nord Lead.

[Dextroze]

Thanks a lot for these good advices !

I'll definitely check the casio.

You think Jupiter-80 can be use alone as a stage piano ?

 

I love all his sounds, and it has so much possibilities..

And a guy is selling it "cheap"... Less than rd-800...

[ProfD]

You think Jupiter-80 can be use alone as a stage piano ?

 

I love all his sounds, and it has so much possibilities..

And a guy is selling it "cheap"... Less than rd-800...

The Jupiter 80 is a synthesizer. Otherwise, it can be used onstage if you can deal with playing piano sounds on unweighted keys.

[Raymb1]

For $1000.00 as opposed to 2 or 3 times as much, I would take the Casio 5s. In that blindfold test earlier in this forum, the Casio represented itself very well. Ray

[Dextroze]

Wich blindfold test ?

[Dana.]

For $1000.00 as opposed to 2 or 3 times as much, I would take the Casio 5s. In that blindfold test earlier in this forum, the Casio represented itself very well. Ray

Did you actually read what the OP wrote? Did you see that he revised his initial query? Did you see in his subject line that he's looking for "second voice/effects"?

 

I need glitchy sounds

 

Did you see that? Why would you suggest a digital piano for this?

[Dextroze]

I'm afraid of the casio (or maybe hé should be afraid), because, from time to time I broke strings on grand pianos...so on a casio...i'm afraid that overall quality can be ...no so good, in the time ?

 

[Brettymike]

Definitely check out the Casio PX5 - No strings to break at all , plus you could buy about 3 of them for $3000 :-).

 

Brett

[Ken Beaumont]

Jazz Trio? If you have the cash, Kawai MP11 or MP-7.

The RD800 or Yamaha CP4 are also good choices.

But a CASIO PX5? It's good but not in that league.

If your short on cash and have a bad back sure, but if you have the euro and in are good health there are much better options.

[DulceLabs.com]

For $1000.00 as opposed to 2 or 3 times as much, I would take the Casio 5s. In that blindfold test earlier in this forum, the Casio represented itself very well. Ray

Did you actually read what the OP wrote? Did you see that he revised his initial query? Did you see in his subject line that he's looking for "second voice/effects"?

 

I need glitchy sounds

 

Did you see that? Why would you suggest a digital piano for this?

 

Actually he wrote he needed "as a second voice/effects" - not for second voice effects.

 

The PX-5S can do very cool "glitchy" effects. He also mentioned pads - the PX-5S pads are simply out-of-this-world.

 

So to answer your question: "Why would you suggest a digital piano for this?" - Because the PX-5S can do everything he asked for at a third of the price of this budget. Why WOULDN'T it get suggested?

[Brettymike]

Jazz Trio? If you have the cash, Kawai MP11 or MP-7.

The RD800 or Yamaha CP4 are also good choices.

But a CASIO PX5? It's good but not in that league.

If your short on cash and have a bad back sure, but if you have the euro and in are good health there are much better options.

 

It's right up there amongst the majors , - not in the same league for price .

(I would get the Casio AND a SantaKurz Forte)

 

Brett

[Dextroze]

Yes but I can have the jupiter-80 for less than thé double...thé question is...

Is thé jupiter80 a good overall synth?

Can i use it to play piano gigs ?

Like...in bars ?

 

Because...this is a great offert this Guy is making I dont wan't to loose something like this but i have to be sûre ?

[CEB]

Wich blindfold test ?

 

This one. The Casio performed like the Bears on a good day.

Casio lost 31-73.

 

But it sounded OK for a $1000 plastic keyboard.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2637158/1

 

 

[Dana.]

The PX-5S can do very cool "glitchy" effects.

Prove it. I want to hear it do some shit like this:

 

[video:youtube]

[CEB]

I'm not sure what is best for you. It kind of depends on what non piano sounds you are after. Leads for cool jazz or fusion sort of stuff or just pads to support the piano etc....

 

You are a pianist. I will spew what I would do with $3000 if I was going to get a stage piano and synth setup.

 

I would start with the Kawai MP-7 at $1700 USD. Nice action and a substantial platform. Not a lightweight plastic shell. The pianos sound nice. It supports half pedaling and you can get the optional F-30 triple pedal which give you sostenuto and una corda control. The MP-7 also has a lot of other types sounds. The 256 patch soundbank is nice and the controller feature are well laid out if 4 zones are enough. FWIW The Casio doesn't do half pedaling.

 

 

If I was serious about wanting to do pads and leads to support an acoustic piano. I would add a Studiologic Sledge for $999 or Mopho or a used Nord Lead or used synth action Motif etc.... Even an old Korg M1 or Triton or many other used synth action boards would be cool. There are a lot of ways to get good support sounds for not a lot of money.

 

I would start with a MP-7 then decide where to go from there if you need a weighted board.

 

PS- I have not played the RD-800.

 

 

[timwat]

Dexter:

 

If it hasn't been said yet, welcome to the forum.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I'm getting confused with what you actually want. A few of the units you mention in your original post are indeed stage pianos. But the Jupiter 80 is anything BUT a stage piano. It's a performance synth.

 

You also mention "second voice / effects" but want a weighted keyboard to sub when you don't have an acoustic piano. And then you also throw in an inquiry about an amplifier.

 

So I figure you're going to get recommendations all over the map, until you narrow down your specific usage.

 

Do you want a weighted keyboard for when acoustic isn't around? The Jupiter's not your best bet then.

 

Do you want lots of sounds, pads, synth stuff? An Access Virus might be your best choice.

 

Are you really drawn to the Jupiter because of your opportunity to buy one used at a great price? Then you don't need to ask our opinion.

 

Will a Casio PX5s suit your needs? I'm not really sure what your needs are yet, so difficult to say. What I can say is the Casio has some ardent fans here on the forum. I'm not one of them. I tried to love it, wanted to upgrade from the PX3 to it...but it didn't do it for me. But it certainly does it for many here. Me, I bought a Yamaha CP4. Different strokes, as they say.

 

All said, the first keyboard that came to mind reading your post? Go find a 73-weighted key Korg Kronos (either the original or Kronos X). With the new version being released, you should be able to find a deal on the full-featured, wonderful older versions just under your threshold.

 

Much, much fuller featured than the Casio. Will run circles around any of the stage pianos mentioned here in terms of breadth of sounds, programming flexibility, etc. Will sub for acoustic piano much better than the Jupiter 80.

 

Just my 0.02.

[Dave Ferris]

Since you are looking for something to augment your sonic palette as opposed to a DP that best mimics an acoustic for jazz- someone in the other thread of yours suggested a Nord Stage 2. It's a bit above your budget , but like that poster mentioned, maybe you can pick one up used at considerable savings.

 

There's a great pianist/keyboardist here in town who uses the NS2 for his more fusiony/non-straight-ahead gigs, Otmaro Ruiz. I've heard him play different synth type leads and textures on it, and his terrific, virtuoso playing aside, the Nord really sounds great. He makes it sing for sure.

 

Another thought if I were going in that direction ,would be to look at a Kronos 73. You have the weighted action, not my favorite, but certainly playable for what I'm gathering you want out of this expanded sonic canvas. Now that a new Kronos has been announced, you very well might one used or on a closeout deal for the Kronos X. That synth has a ton of firepower where I can't imagine you wishing for anything more.

 

Or like Prof D suggested- maybe a CP4/Rd800/MP7 and then augment that with a 61 non-weighted board like the Yamaha MX49/61 or Korg Kross. I haven't touch the Korg so I can't say anything about the quailty of the build or keybed. Generally speaking, I can't hang with keyboard feeling on the watered down flagship Motif/Kronos/whatevers. That's me though.

 

And again to echo Prof- the Jup 8 is a synth board with wonderful sounds. But if you are anything like me, I can't see you playing any acoustic piano from that, or get any serious practicing done other then moving your fingers. .

 

The new Kurzweil Forte (again well over 3K) would be an excellent choice for what you're looking for. But the price (it's new and less likely to find one used ) , and the fact it's at a not so friendly 50 lbs, make it less an ideal choice if you are schlepping your own gear.

 

Again if it were me- I'd go the Nord Stage 2 or Kronos 73 route.

[area51recording]

Wich blindfold test ?

 

This one. The Casio performed like the Bears on a good day.

Casio lost 31-73.

 

But it sounded OK for a $1000 plastic keyboard.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2637158/1

 

I went back and listened to this again. My ears are a LOT less "golden" than yours I guess, because I just don't hear where one of these DPs is TOTALLY superior to the other......not trying to be snarky, I just don't hear it that way, it's probably me.....

 

THANK GOD though, because my lack of aural finesse has allowed me to enjoy playing the Casio and save the $$$$$

[timwat]

Dexter:

 

You should listen to Dave Ferris.

 

 

 

[DulceLabs.com]

The PX-5S can do very cool "glitchy" effects.

Prove it. I want to hear it do some shit like this:

 

[video:youtube]

 

The little bleeps, bloops and sound effects? Yeah it can do those no problem. These examples may be a little clean but the PX-5S has plenty of onboard distortion and delay effects and the arpeggiator.

 

Listen in about :50 seconds in and then the very end for some funky radio-like glitchy effects.

 

Some of the 8-bit type bleeps and bloops - add some distortion if you like it dirty:

https://soundcloud.com/casio-px-5s/8-bit-fun-on-the-px-5s

 

Some more fun:

https://soundcloud.com/casio-px-5s/6-degrees-ld-px5s-casio

 

This video also shows some of the stutter and glitch effects possible:

[video:youtube]

 

 

Dexter: If you have some raw examples of the glitch effects you are looking for, I will do my best to make some demos for you.

[Dave Ferris]

Ha, it looks like Tim and I cross posted.

 

So there are two solid votes for the Kronos 73 from two jazz guys.

[Dana.]

The little bleeps, bloops and sound effects? Yeah it can do those no problem. These examples may be a little clean but the PX-5S has plenty of onboard distortion and delay effects and the arpeggiator.

 

Listen in about :50 seconds in and then the very end for some funky radio-like glitchy effects.

 

Some of the 8-bit type bleeps and bloops - add some distortion if you like it dirty:

https://soundcloud.com/casio-px-5s/8-bit-fun-on-the-px-5s

 

Some more fun:

https://soundcloud.com/casio-px-5s/6-degrees-ld-px5s-casio

 

This video also shows some of the stutter and glitch effects possible:

[video:youtube]

 

 

Dexter: If you have some raw examples of the glitch effects you are looking for, I will do my best to make some demos for you.

Not even close to the video I posted. But thanks for the laugh with that Euro-trance video!

[DulceLabs.com]

Not even close to the video I posted. But thanks for the laugh with that Euro-trance video!

 

I wasn't trying to re-create the sounds in the video you posted. I was posting existing samples that are out there to demonstrate the PX-5S can indeed do glitchy effects... (but the the PX-5S is more than capable of distorted arpeggiated blips and bleeps like in the video.)

 

Again, if Dexter wants to post examples of the actual effects he is after, I be happy to see if the PX-5S can do them.

[CEB]

The way I read it is he was looking for a stage slab piano AND a board to support a real piano. I think optimally they are two seperate boards.

[Dextroze]

First aff all, I have to thank you all. This is a great community, I couldn't have found something better !

I posted some messages on audiofanzine, and the quality/ratio of the answers are not really good.

Here I have professional musicians that take the time to help me... That's so nice.

 

To go back to the subject, it's sureI've never been clear !

Well that's simply because I don't really know how to do it (do what ?!! lol).

 

I have several goal : 1- to have a synth with a lot of sounds and the ability to work on them, a good touch and not too heavy one.

2- if I can take it to make gigs and play piano/rhodes that's really good for me, like that I can sold my PC-140 (yamaha), wich by the way... Is it good ?

 

So for most use, it would be a second keyboard but I could use it alone for places without acoustic piano.

 

To go back to the possibilities :

 

Jupiter-80 : I just love al the sounds and the crazy possibilities, but I guess that I couldn't be able to take it on private gigs and play standards on it ?

 

Roland rd-800 : Seems very good, but it is the most expensive and is it really better than the..

 

Kaway Mp-7 : Budget wise and quality wise, it seems to be the best choice. Good piano touch, lots of sounds. I'm just wondering if there any good effects and a lot of them ?

 

The Casio PX5S : Actually sounds good, I might try it, it has a lot of possibility effect wise, even if the brut sound isn't the best I feel, and the plastic quality is maybe cheap, but... It's lighter and less expansive, I could still buy Integra 7 one day.

 

Kronos X : I found one in France not too expensive but I'm afraid it's too complicated for me, and maybe too heavy ?

 

What about the rd-88 with Native Instrument 10 or an integra 7/rack xs ?

 

Thanks again for all your support and your knowledge, I really hope I will find my key(board!!).

 

I will go this afternoon try some things and also tomorrow afternoon.

 

I'll keep you posted, and if you have additional ideas, I'm all ears:)

 

Dexter