whitefang Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 My cable service offers their customers in my area TWO PBS stations. WTVS in Detroit, of course, and WGBH or so I think, from Toledo Ohio. Often they'll broadcast the same things at the same times, but every now and then something will be on one, but NOT the other. Like last night, the OHIO station, in the middle of THEIR "pledge drive" showed a special titled: "50 Years With Peter, Paul, and Mary". This special outlined the early years of the trio, their beginnings, showed clips of early performances, still photos of other folk artists of the times they also performed with, like a still taken at one of the Newport festivals, a clip of them singing "Blowin' In the Wind" at the March On Washington held by Martin Luther King in 1963 (Where King gave his famous "I Have A Dream" speech). There were also clips of them singing with the likes of Tom Paxton, Dave Van Ronk, Pete Seeger, stills of Buffy St. Marie, Richard Farina, Phil Ochs, Donovan, namely all the people who inspired my yearning to learn guitar, or who helped shape my political and social outlook as a young adolescent. I was 12 when "Puff, The Magic Dragon" hit the airwaves, but by that time, thanks largely to my step sister, I was familiar with them, and some songs from their first album. Songs like Pete Seeger's "If I Had A Hammer", and "Where Have All The Flowers Gone", which many feel is THE pentultimate anthem of the 1960's. And because of the trio, I was long familiar with "Lemon Tree" WAY before Trini Lopez had a hit with it in '63, or was it '64? Anyway, some of it did bring tears to my eyes, as I'm overemotional at times since my TIA. And if I WASN'T feeling old enough as it was, this special certainly helped THAT out! White(long in the)fang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 We get two PBS station here on the west coast too...It works out well as there a special music programs that are replayed 4 or 5 nights later. It gives you a choice of which day and time works out best. Last night I watched Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga live from the UK. Very good program with some heavy jazz improvisation on the sax and trumpet...glad I didn't miss it and also glad that I don't need to watch it again this week which gives me a free night. The same thing happened with the Paul and Ringo Special, but on that one I watched it twice! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Just a little off topic, Tom Paxon's niece is a good friend of ours and she is coming over Saturday for a visit..... On topic, I only have over the air antenna, I get 4 PBS stations here in the Phoenix area over the air. 8HD 8 Life, and 8 world, and the other one is a classical music station. dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 So......I take it neither of you saw the Peter, Paul, and Mary thing? Or...are you thinking this was FACEBOOK? Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 This ain't Facebook Fang, at least it weren't when I left for California on Saturday. Did Zuckerberg buy guitar player? Nah I did not see the Peter Paul and Mary thing this go round. dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 @ DBM: I get my PBS over the air too! I get about 4 PBS stations but only two of them come in all the time that I really depend on. Hope you have a good visit with Tom Paxton's niece... @ Fang, no I didn't catch PP&M this time around but I have seen previous specials and they were sounding as good as ever... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geoff Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Just to let you know, Donovan's still doing his thing over here from time to time. G. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=738517&content=music The Geoff - blame Caevan!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Sorry. I didn't mean to sound so snarky, it's just I've experienced this sort of thing too much on "farcebook", which is why I made that comment. Mostly, I thought the OP would spark some sort of discussion about Peer, Paul and Mary, but instead, as I experienced in "fakebook", some guys started going on bout how many PBS stations they get on THEIR tv's. I only mentioned my getting another PBS station besides WTVS in Detroit in case another forum member, who might be from Detroit, but doesn't have the same cable service, wonders HOW I was able to see the Peter, Paul and Mary special since the Detroit PBS staton didn't SHOW it the night in question. AND wonders if I'm making the whole thing up. Oh, and Geoff---He's really NOT on topic, but it's good to hear Donovan is still doing his thing, just wish he'd do it more often in the studio and release it here! Peter, Paul and Mary had a huge impact on music back in the day. No, they didn't sway the route it was taking, not like Dylan or the Beatles, but they DID make more people aware of the music of Dylan, Seeger and other "folkies" due to the acceptance of the general public of P,P&M's appearance and sound. Sure, you can sing songs of protest and social injustice as long as you mix them in with songs about dragons and romance, and sing them with gentle and soothing harmony. And it worked! At least, for THEM. And all these years later, they're STILL remembered fondly. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 'fang, I did not catch PP&M on PBS. I wouldn't have, anyway, since I only get broadcast WTVS (all three of their channels, 56-1, 56-2 & 56-3). A few years ago I revisited their catalog. I was in a cover band with three lead singers, one female and two male, so I was looking for unique material we could cover. Unfortunately this was before new acts like Lumineers and Mumford & Sons brought folk back in vogue so it was hard to imagine fitting "Puff" or any of their other hits in the middle of Top 40 rock/pop. We did do a one-time performance of Pete Seeger's "Flowers", though. Mamas & Papas have material that would have fit better but we never got around to it. As a side note, as I was born after the 1963 release of "Puff" my introduction was likely the 1978 animated TV special for kids. I also watched things like H.R. Pufnstuf and reruns of Kukla, Fran and Ollie so I always associate "Puff" with kids shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmac Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I did not see the PP&M program but really enjoyed a pledge drive program on 60's music while at the girl friends house. I only have internet with netflix at home since I rarely watch tv lately. They had Hermans Hermits, Percy Faith, Ventures and a bunch of others doing their hit songs. Brought back memories. Very cool to see those guys in their 60's and 70's still performing and doing it well. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 My cable service offers their customers in my area TWO PBS stations. WTVS in Detroit, of course, and WGBH or so I think, from Toledo Ohio. Often they'll broadcast the same things at the same times, but every now and then something will be on one, but NOT the other. Like last night, the OHIO station, in the middle of THEIR "pledge drive" showed a special titled: "50 Years With Peter, Paul, and Mary". This special outlined the early years of the trio, their beginnings, showed clips of early performances, still photos of other folk artists of the times they also performed with, like a still taken at one of the Newport festivals, a clip of them singing "Blowin' In the Wind" at the March On Washington held by Martin Luther King in 1963 (Where King gave his famous "I Have A Dream" speech). Anyway, some of it did bring tears to my eyes, as I'm overemotional at times since my TIA. And if I WASN'T feeling old enough as it was, this special certainly helped THAT out! White(long in the)fang Sorry Fang, I thought the thread was more about the great specials on PBS "like last night the Ohio station" had a great special on PP&M. Maybe if the thread was titled PP&M, I would have caught on that [that] was what you wanted to talk about... +1 on Donovan, I would love to know what he's up to and if he has some new stuff coming out across the pond? He could easily be linked to a discussion on PP&M and/or maybe PBS will do a special on him some day LOL! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I ain't apologizing, I reply with what comes to my mind. I can't read minds over the internet to see anyone's intent. dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 HMmmm.....I thought possibly the OP CONTENT would have been indication enough! Well, no matter.... I don't know if PBS will ever do a special about Donovan. I can't imagine how they would present it. Certainly, not on "American Masters". But, they're clever over there, I'm sure they'd think of something. But, it's a sure bet you won't ever see one on VH1! Unless, of course, Donovan tries to revive his career by doing Hip-Hop!...or wears clothes made of MEAT or some dumb-ass stuff like that. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Nope, the OP CONTENT just didn't lead me in the right direction for some reason...but since you asked: I'm not a fan of folk music or Peter Paul and Mary. I liked it when I was a kid growing up and recognize how talented they were/are. I prefer Donovan, but he's more drippy hippy than folk. But ahead and beyond all of the folkies out there IMHO is Bob Dylan. However, unlike his true folk fans, I liked him much better when he went in his new direction (i.e. going away from PP&M and other great folk artists and the genre in general)...PP&M are a highly talented American folk icon, but I liked the Kingston Trio better. If they ever do a PBS special on Donovan, I'll be glued to the set... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 The Kingston trio was a popular folk trio before folk music was big in America. Their BIG hit, "Tom Dooley" wasn't even at first a single. Two DJs lovd the track on their first album so much they played the hell out of it. The demand from listeners was so great, the label had to rush presses of singles from the master to meet the demand. Then they followed it up with a satire of consumerism called "A Dollar Down and A Dollar A Week". Even in times of rock'n'roll dominance, the Kingston Trio still managed to rack up big record sales. I liked them a lot, too. Their old single "Desert Pete" is still an old favorite of mine, and I prefer THEIR version of "One More Round". And I was really into the folk scene. ABC TV used to have a program in the early '60's called "Hootenanny", which focused on folk music back then. Just about ANYbody who was anybody in folk showed up on the show. Dylan was never on, but you often saw PeteSeeger, Malvina Reynolds, Phil Ochs, The Rooftop Singers, The New Christy Minstrels and The Serendipity Singers along with yes, The Kingston Trio and Odetta, Peter Paul and Mary. The show even introduced TRINI LOPEZ, a folk singer who strummed an electric guitar! Imagine! They also had on a folk group that had Don Dilworth in the line-up. THEY often did arrangements of songs based on classic poetry. One example was the Dilworth arrangement of Poe's "Annabelle Lee" which was recorded by Joan Baez in '68. And, LARRY; If you EVER gave a hoot about a greenback dollar, you'd look up YouTube clips! After all, it WAS folk music that spurred social consciensness(sic) in song, that lead to the lyrical content in Rock music to be more aestetic and poetic and socially significant. Punks today would never bother to whine and gripe musically if not for folk music in America in the '60's paving that road. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I saw the Chad Mitchell Trio, The Brandywine Singers, The Limelighters, and Tom Paxton last year at Valley Vista Performing Arts Center. We went of course because Tom Paxton's niece wanted to visit with her uncle. The best of the bunch in my opinion was the Chad Mitchell Trio. I did see Peter and Paul on the Tavis Smiley show a week or two back. And I was impressed with them, they seem genuine, socially concerned still, and they still got the music in them. At almost every question Tavis asked, they performed a little as an answer. It was an entertaining half hour. I like those guys a bunch. The only folks singer I ever bought albums from were Bob Dylan, Peter Paul and Mary, and Phil Ochs. Plus some Black blues folkies like Mississippi John Hurt, and Josh White also. My favorite was Dylan of that bunch. dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 You bought them FROM Dylan? Where? From out of his TRUNK? LOL! Anyway, Josh White Jr. used to be in the cast of a locally produced children's show here called "HOT FUDGE" along with folk icon sort of, Ron Coden. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I do give a hoot and love old youtube clips (which I look up all the time)...I know a little of the foundations folk music laid in the social consciousness of the music played on the rock and roll stations. A couple of examples (for me anyway) was For What It's Worth by Buffalo Springfield or the Viet Nam song by Country Joe and the Fish and then there's the Hurricane by Dylan... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted December 5, 2014 Author Share Posted December 5, 2014 Oh, you want to get into social conciousness in song with an old DYLAN FREAK? How about "Blowin' In the Wind"? "Masters Of War"? "It's A Hard Rain, A-Gonna Fall"? "Oxford Town"? "Chimes Of Freedom"? "The Times They Are A-Changing"? and the piece de resistance---"It's All Right, MA(I'm Only Bleeding)"? Oh, and the Kingston Trio did do a song that did well chart-wise about the tragedy of the nuclear submarine THE THRESHER which went down in 1963. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 No, you have a better memory than I have as we both get older LOL! I will say that Donovan, Dylan, and Simon and Garfunkel are about as close as I get to folk music. I also get a kick out of those social consciousness Smothers Brothers... My favorite song by the Kingston Trio (which I still play to this day) is Scotch and Soda. Hard to believe the same group did Tom Dooley who socially consciously "met her on the mountain and stabbed her with my knife"... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 You bought them FROM Dylan? Where? From out of his TRUNK? LOL! Through his down line dealers. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dance2.gifhttp://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dance3.gif dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted December 6, 2014 Author Share Posted December 6, 2014 You may laugh, Larry, but The Smothers Brothers WERE "socially conscious", just not musically. In THAT vein, they were a COMEDY duo, and on the two LPs of their's I used to have, any "Straight" songs they did were old, "public domain" folk tunes that didn't "rock the boat" so to speak. But, remember, they put out a LOT of that "social/political awareness" stuff on their TV variety show, and even an appearance of Pete Seeger singing "Big Muddy" got cut off mid performance due to the censors thinking Seeger was referring to RICHARD NIXON when the song's lyrics got to the part where they say, "The Big Fool says to push on". Yeah, Well, maybe he WAS, but he didn't write the tune, so it WAS a bad call, and anyway, they DID allow Pete to return and sing the song UNDISTURBED the following week! Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 There are many comedy acts out there that use a guitar. I liked the Smothers Brothers as they included a bass and the old straight man concept like Abbot and Costello, Lewis and Martin. But I always listen to the talent behind the act if they use music. Dean-o was one of the best singers out there IMHO. The brothers were pretty good and had a good acoustic sound. Many comedy acts that I've heard over the years with a solo act like Steve Martin, can really play that instrument (be it a guitar, bass or banjo). The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour was the most controversial Viet Nam show on TV. They were fired in '69. The Big Muddy issue that got cut-off and reprogrammed was directed at Johnson not Nixon...they booked a lot of top name acts (which included Donovan) and I really liked the show... ps. according to Wiki, Pete wrote the song in '67 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waist_Deep_in_the_Big_Muddy Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted December 7, 2014 Author Share Posted December 7, 2014 Their show was also the first place I saw AND heard( and heard OF) The Buffalo Springfield, and their signature song, "For What It's Worth" Those guys had a LOT of top musical guests, either actually ON the show, or via film/tape. Wasn't the first time anyone heard "Revolution" and "Hey, Jude" by the Beatles on the Smothers Brothers show? They showed a tape of the Beatles playing those songs surrounded by admirers( well, first one song, then later, the other...) And Pete Townshend preceded Michael Jackson by almost 20 years in the "catch your hair on FIRE" type incident---ALL on The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour! And, of curse, DONOVAN was practically a regular on that show. I particularily recall a song called "I Love My Shirt" being performed more than once on the program, and it was where his song"Atlantis" was premiered. And they even had RAVI SHANKAR on the show! THAT was something to see AND hear! Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbluesman Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 OK Fang tonight I saw some of the PBS special you were talking about on this thread starter. I have seen it before on the time of year when the PBS stations are asking for donations. PP&M still had it those few years ago when the show was taped. I was never a big folk fan, but I appreciated what they did back then. The show was rather nice and entertaining (what little I saw of it.) I came in the house late so I only saw the last bit of it, and I remembered I saw it before a while back a few years, and I enjoyed it.... dbm If it sounds good, it is good !! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 I always liked their voices, but never thought "guitar-wise" there was much to them. Then one day, around THIS time of year( Christmas season), Paul Stookey was a guest, for some reason, on some now long gone daytime talk show. I forget which one. it was about 1965-'66, if memory serves(which isn't all that dependable lately). There was another guest on there talking about Christmas gift ideas. There was also, as one of the gift ideas, a cheap, toy like guitar. the show's hostess( which makes me think the show was possibly VIRGINIA GRAHAM'S) asked Stookey to give it a whirl. He picked it up and started playing "Good King Wenceslaus"( or however it's spelled) with all the skill of a well trained classical guitarist! I had more respect for P,P&M after that! Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Iverson Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I think that Peter Paul and Mary were very well rehearsed, with good vocal and guitar arrangements, though of course they weren't trying to be virtuosos. I liked a couple of their songs, but never was a big fan or anything. I enjoy seeing some of these "trips down memory lane" - yes I remember the '60s - 14 years old in 1967. It's interesting to see and hear some things from that era (not just music) from my perspective NOW. Some of it has stood the test of time, IMHO and some of it not, but that's doubtless true of ANY era! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I was never a fan of the "commercial" folk scene (PP&M, Kingston Trio, Chad Mitchell, et. al.) I preferred the real thing. Dylan (Freewheelin was my favorite album), early Joan Baez (she had great chops in her early work). As a matter of fact, when teaching young girls in the studio, I always taught Baez' arrangement of "The Lily of the West". It's a great tune and a nice arrangement and they loved it! Check it out below. This was when Baez was more focused on music than politics. Having studied with Jerry Ricks, I was very into acoustic blues. I listened to and played the music of Mississippi John Hurt, Doc Watson, Blind Blake, et. al. If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 Speaking of getting old, and with still a kind of connection to the "folk" discussion, today is Bob Dylan's son JAKOB's 45th birthday. Actually Fred, if not for the "commercial" folk scene, the "real thing" would have faded further into obscurity. And in gentle disagreement, I'd have to say that The Kingston Trio wasn't actually part of the "commercial" folk scene. That sleeve is reserved for folks like The Serendipity Singers, New Christy Minstrels, The Rooftop Singers and such. To THEIR credit, they always at least covered many songs first championed by those "real thing" folkies you refer to. Especially the LEGENDS like GUTHRIE and SEEGER, Leadbelly and Cisco Houston, Sonny boy Williamson.... You MIGHT consider a couple of names up there as being "acoustic blues" players, but given the wide lattitude the definition of "folk music" has, they CAN'T be excluded. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_C Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Fang, Although I strongly disagree with you regarding the Kingston Trio not being "commercial, I actually agree in principle with the remainder of your post. I just prefer blues based music rather than the "This Land is Your Land" sub-genre of Folk Music. It's just a personal preference and in no way is intended to influence the opinion of others. With regard to the "exclusion" of people like Seeger, it is probably worthy of note that the phrase "et.al" is an abbreviation of the Latin "et alia" which means "and others". If you play cool, you are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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