Do Keyboards Have a Mind ?

[Theo Verelst]

Now, before you say "of course not, dumb*ss", think about it: does you (digital) workstation/synthesizer give you feelings when you select sounds, slide a fader, or, most importantly, lay down you sloppiest or most top notch chords, or want that after-touch kick in just a t the right time in your solo ?

 

A bit boring you could say "it probably has a micro-controller". Well, that might have been the case from halfway the seventies throughout the 80s, but with the DX-7 and some big boards of the time, it started to become a main line that there would be a little more computer power in the digitals than just a micro computer, preferably some machines used special chips with lots of computer power, either in the form of "dumb" DSPs or highly specialized chips, or in the form of generally usable computer substrate.

 

Now, just like in computer software, some people have specialized in "user interfaces", which sometimes is mistaken to mean "optimized" and "smooth" program use. More likely it means something like "the boss is happy when the program suggests so and so, and doesn't so and so", which isn't the same as optimized user experience.

 

In keyboards, some might want to have some sort of Automatic Quantizer, a Chord Correct, and maybe even a Sound Creator that responds with many parts of the digital instruments wonderful signal chain to what you chubby fingers seem to lay down on the magic ivory. And, darned if it isn't true, some software and some machines actually appear to try to, and to some extend succeed in, "talk" to the user (and therefor to the audience) by all kinds of subliminal and whispered messages.

 

Nuts non-sense ? I don't think so, and I'm not a fan. I think it is a defense of certain parties in the synth world that do not make it as "main" influence, or simply, like in sofware, cannot get much signal processing to work really supercool. Or there are software/sound design persons that feel their "new" ideas are worthy of spreading the subliminal gospel of, who will say ?

 

Anyhow, I'm for that keyboards are mainly smooth moving keys with some artificial weights, and maybe hammer simulations, with good and consistently accurate working contacts that are read out by reliable keyboard-scan software, preferably with very high resolution (I'd prefer micro second range), and no (hinein-) interpetation of the notes played whatsover, no rounding, no chord analysis+correction, nothing.

 

Besides other things (like variable latency, highly depending on stranger parameters than I care to share here) I strongly suspect the PC3 to figure out accurate timing differences between notes (usually part of a chord) that are played almost at the same time. I agree that this could lead to more accurate sounding of piano notes, so that's (by lack of so much scan speed that it doesn't need tricks) an acceptable "interpretation" of played notes that I can appreciate (assuming it's true): to make chord attacks more realistic than standard ROMpler behavior.

 

Many sounds that appear to "speak" in some way, or at least suggest "this sound is ok" or "you shouldn't try to make this sound so-and-so" I think are a consequence of limitations related to the signal processing. I was thinking about some good examples to use for explaining the limitations of current digital to analog convertors and was reminded that even pure chords seem to "talk" a bit, if you can call it that.Pure mathematical accurate notes, with extreme digital accuracy (64 bits) appear to sing in certain ways, all because of how we perceive musical notes.

 

But that's not what I mean, I mean the kinds of noises and strange artifacts and designed sounds and sound-scapes that appear to babble whole stories together when you test a sound or play a song on the digital keyboard/workstation/synthesizer.

 

I've never heard a piano or electric piano or guitar do that, and I don't like it...

 

T.V.

[WillNeverPost]

Someone clearly forgot to take their meds.

[Theo Verelst]

Say what ?

[Skinny]

Say what ?

Exactly.

[Sven Golly]

tl;dr

 

http://www.troll.me/images/ancient-aliens-guy/we-have-officially-jumped-the-shark.jpg

[allan_evett]

I took my meds this morning, so I'm ready to take on this topic

 

With things like the quasi-AI evident in "Drummer" - from Logic Pro X, it makes sense that particular functions of current electronic music gear take on 'smart' roles. And I wonder just how far that will go; seems lately that I've been wearing out the expression, "Oh, it does that, too ?". If it can be done with motor vehicles, which seems all the rage right now - with detection-based assistance functions popping up on new vehicles regularly - how much more so with DSP based music equipment.

 

Electronic instruments each have a particular 'sound', for the most part; though keyboards like the Kronos and Kurzweil PC3, and some software instruments/synths have started to blur this distinction. To my ears, analog synths and high-quality VA's have very distinct 'personalities'. While oscillators, samples, wave-tables, etc. certainly play a big part of that, my latest fascination had been with filters. There is a strong 'juiciness' to ladder filters, meanwhile state-variable filters present a whole different charm. My current 'poor man's' VA instrument with multiple personalities is Thor for iPad - a history of hard-wired analog synths in a single app. Absolutely nails it. Put Thor, or something like it, in a keyboard or tabletop module - with knobs/sliders for every function, and I'd be whipping out the checkbook in record time.

[DulceLabs.com]

Put Thor, or something like it, in a keyboard or tabletop module - with knobs/sliders for every function, and I'd be whipping out the checkbook in record time.

 

There's a guy who makes shells for iPad synths with knobs and sliders specific to a single app with a nice display slot for the iPad. I posted them here a while back.. Will try to find it again. It's quite cool.

 

[EscapeRocks]

My FA08 became self aware on August 29, 2014.

 

Since that day, when I turn it on, it boots into a Studio Set named "John Connor Must Die"

 

 

[marino]

Theo - I'm not really sure if I got your reasoning right (and I suspect I'm not alone in this), but I'll say something which is "inspired" by your post.

 

Keyboards don't have a mind. Or a soul. But we do.

Making music is a special activity, who fuels strange energies and make strange wheels spin. I think it's understandable that we get attached to the instruments (in the broader sense) of music-making; they are the means which permit our thoughts and feeling to become reality.

 

That said, keyboards, unlike other instruments, can bring a very peculiar danger to this relationship: When I press a key and some complete piece of electronic or pop music comes out by itself, I can smile at the moment, but it's not the best way to drive someone to have a creative relationship with the instrument. The risk is that the relationship becomes passive, and kind of fetishist. I'm not driven to express myself on the instrument, but to let it play, and remain in awe of it without fully understanding what's going on. This can happen with any high-tech toy, but music adds an intensity element to the picture.

 

I remember vividly when I played a Korg Kronos for the first time. After auditioning the single patches, I switched to the combis, and the vast majority of them included some sequenced/riffed/karmaed/arpeggiated devilry that I tried frantically to switch off - before giving up and put down my headphones in disgust. But I guess that, sadly, they helped to sell more units.

 

 

[marino]

My FA08 became self aware on August 29, 2014.

Since that day, when I turn it on, it boots into a Studio Set named "John Connor Must Die"

 

[Theo Verelst]

Well, many will have seen the performance of human language interpretations and fact searching of "Watson"(from IBM) playing Jeopardy, I'm sure it's on youtube, pretty amazing.

 

Maybe it's needed to limit computer powers that could do automatic crowd-reading, composing, arranging and mixing at a level that might conflict with some human composers and performers.

 

I agree with Marino that somehow sufficient (probably a lot) of human effort tends to get music and life patterns away from a natural tendency to deteriorate into evil, how machines operate in that line of thoughts probably is not a given, besides that the programmers and main system architects probably have decisive influence.

 

So I don't really believe in the up-rising of machine intelligence, though probably that is possible in a variety of forms.

 

I do believe in Terminator.

 

T.V.

 

[ProfD]

Absolutely not. A KB is merely a toolbox containing sounds that enable us to make music.

 

The feel and/or sound of an instrument may influence approach but music always comes from the mind and soul of the musician(s).

 

Now, the day I play a KB and it tells me the music I'm working on would sound better if I raise the 9 and flat the 5, I'm done.

[Brettymike]

Well , I know for a fact , there are a bunch of Kurzweils out there in the world with Moose personalities kicking around inside them .

 

http://lowres.cartoonstock.com/medical-shrink-psychiatrist-psychiatry-therapists-mental_health-jdin1383_low.jpg

 

Brett

[EscapeRocks]

One day my girlfriend asked why I carried a gun around the house.

 

I told her it was because of the damned Decepticons.

 

I laughed, she laughed, the toaster laughed.

 

I shot the toaster.

 

It was a good time!

[DulceLabs.com]

Put Thor, or something like it, in a keyboard or tabletop module - with knobs/sliders for every function, and I'd be whipping out the checkbook in record time.

 

There's a guy who makes shells for iPad synths with knobs and sliders specific to a single app with a nice display slot for the iPad. I posted them here a while back.. Will try to find it again. It's quite cool.

 

Here's you go Allan - this case is designed for Animoog, just imagine this type of set up but optimized for the Thor app.

 

http://www.synth-project.de/crbst_Animoog_Front_Cut1.png

 

http://www.synth-project.de/crbst_ani_inside.jpg

 

[video:youtube]

 

Explore his site to see other iPad and VST controllers:

http://www.synth-project.de/

[Michael Wright]

One day my girlfriend asked why I carried a gun around the house.

 

I told her it was because of the damned Decepticons.

 

I laughed, she laughed, the toaster laughed.

 

I shot the toaster.

 

It was a good time!

http://media.giphy.com/media/KAfDCzs0wQhsk/giphy.gif

[MAJUSCULE]

J'crois que j'aurais mieux compris la première page du Monde.

[Brettymike]

In certain conditions , you will see the keyboards soul come out in the form of smoke if something goes wrong .

 

Brett

[WillNeverPost]

Put Thor, or something like it, in a keyboard or tabletop module - with knobs/sliders for every function, and I'd be whipping out the checkbook in record time.

 

There's a guy who makes shells for iPad synths with knobs and sliders specific to a single app with a nice display slot for the iPad. I posted them here a while back.. Will try to find it again. It's quite cool.

 

Here's you go Allan - this case is designed for Animoog, just imagine this type of set up but optimized for the Thor app.

 

http://www.synth-project.de/crbst_Animoog_Front_Cut1.png

 

http://www.synth-project.de/crbst_ani_inside.jpg

 

[video:youtube]

 

Explore his site to see other iPad and VST controllers:

http://www.synth-project.de/

Me likey!

[DulceLabs.com]

Me likey!

 

So do I. The MS-20 controller is cool too. Very neat way to handle the patching! Look ma - no patch cables!

 

http://www.synth-project.de/crbst_mc_front.png

 

 

I so wish I was handy like this. You can pick up an iPad for a few hundred bucks. Would be so cool to fill a room with all types of these controllers.

[OB Dave]

I'm gone all day and what the hell happened? Next time y'all do decide to do psychedelics let me know in advance.

[EscapeRocks]

I'm gone all day and what the hell happened? Next time y'all do decide to do psychedelics let me know in advance.

 

No mushrooms were harmed in the creation of this thread.

[David Emm]

The "problem" is that when playing a new synth, you're interacting with a fixed form of hive mind. If 12-25 people designed an instrument, the cumulative result is a unique form of collaboration. Sure, the underlying technical configuration and general responsiveness matter plenty, but the field has become refined enough that its now very similar to owning 4 or 5 guitars for the tonal variation. Its not whether or not they work; its about the kind of spin they provide. What feels mushy to me feels smooth to the next player. That includes relative intangibles such as how snappy the envelopes are. Someone who is strictly an ambient maven will have a different take than someone prog-minded. So while Theo makes some good points, there is a personal Z-axis through the X-Ys of the specs. That's a subjective last-mile no one walks in quite the same way twice. If anyone had told me I'd be using something like an XKey for half my work now, I would have snorted 10 years ago, but its been a major keeper. The whole situation is a rotating set of fractals. Dig that wild Boolean action.

[mate stubb]

http://imageserver.moviepilot.com/the-ultimate-twilight-zone-collectors-set-is-coming-true-classic.jpeg

[Moonglow]

http://www.tasteofcinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/hal1.gif

[allan_evett]

Me likey!

 

So do I. The MS-20 controller is cool too. Very neat way to handle the patching! Look ma - no patch cables!

 

http://www.synth-project.de/crbst_mc_front.png

 

 

 

I so wish I was handy like this. You can pick up an iPad for a few hundred bucks. Would be so cool to fill a room with all types of these controllers.

 

 

Thanks for the photos, video, and links . Those are some great looking controllers. Unfortunately the guy doesn't plan to sell any of the ones he's built, nor take orders for custom controllers. But it's very cool to see what can be done. Being that we've veered into OT territory, it may be time to give the iVA w/controller exploration its own thread.

[J. Dan]

One day my girlfriend asked why I carried a gun around the house.

 

I told her it was because of the damned Decepticons.

 

I laughed, she laughed, the toaster laughed.

 

I shot the toaster.

 

It was a good time!

 

I literally laughed so loud that I was afraid I was going to wake up the kids. I'm still laughing as I type this,

[DulceLabs.com]

Me likey!

 

So do I. The MS-20 controller is cool too. Very neat way to handle the patching! Look ma - no patch cables!

 

http://www.synth-project.de/crbst_mc_front.png

 

 

 

I so wish I was handy like this. You can pick up an iPad for a few hundred bucks. Would be so cool to fill a room with all types of these controllers.

 

 

Thanks for the photos, video, and links . Those are some great looking controllers. Unfortunately the guy doesn't plan to sell any of the ones he's built, nor take orders for custom controllers. But it's very cool to see what can be done. Being that we've veered into OT territory, it may be time to give the iVA w/controller exploration its own thread.

 

Agreed. In the mean time, to bring the thread back on track:

 

http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/thought_synthesizer.jpg

[Brettymike]

:D ^^^^

 

We saw a cool movie the other night , where Johnny Depp shoe horns his spirit into a super computer when he dies

 

Brett

[Dave Weiser]

[video:youtube]