Korg Module for iPad (Ivory option)

[Kawai James]

COMPLETELY USELESS FOR LIVE SETUP !

 

- I can't select MIDI Sources, as Midi Bridge to use it with splitted keys along with other apps

- Program Changes sent from my floorboard (for selecting presets in Midi Bridge) are also received by Module and the sounds are being switched, too.

- Can't transpose the whole instrument - it would be possible if I could select an individual Midi-Source - such as Midi Bridge to pitch the whole instrument.

- Can't even select a single Midi Channel - Module receives Midi on ALL Channels at one time - no way to use it along with other apps on a different channel to be able to "swap" between different apps while playing by changing the Midi Channel from my Keyboard.

 

All in all I am very dissapointed and angry because the name and the price made me exspect a highly professional instrument and now I must see that it is far beyond cheaper apps from singular developers - there is NO WAY to use it on my upcoming tour in February - I lost many hours of frustrating attempts today to get it implemented into my live setting where I want to use different synths as iMini, Thor,Animoog, Yonac Galileo Organ AND Module. It all works EXCEPT Module - the most expensive App from all.

 

They should do some seroius upgrade or tell us if they are planning to sell their own controller keyboard here. This is not what people with a professional background exspect when they read the name Korg ! Sorry for being harsh here, but it is so frustrating - really.

 

Assuming you haven't done so already, may I recommend submitting these requests/intentions to Korg directly - they may implement them in a future update.

 

Cheers,

James

x

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I submitted a request today to Korg support, for (at a minimum), the ability to set midi to a single channel, in an update.

 

[seratone]

I'm going to chime in as I was only aware of Korg Module as of last night when I brought home an Akai Sysnthstation 49 - my local music chain store has been trying to sell for about 6 months for WAY too much. I brought my iPad and convinced them to give it to me for 100$ (they were asking $279)...Showing them it only worked with USB power that didn't actually 'recharge' the iPad. I have all the IK stuff iGrand and iLectric), Thor, M3000 HD Mellotrons. I gave up my Alesis iDock as it was just too flaky and required too many iPad reboots to get working.

I decided to give one more kick at the can getting useful patches out of my iPad with a completely portable keys rig. I'm afraid to say - It's not quite there yet. The Korg/Ivory Patches are really close, but the Latency kills it for me.

 

1.) I'm using a third generation iPad.

2.) As I rambled on about above, I'm using an Akai Synthstation 49 as a controller (also tried it with a Nord 4d and an iRig Midi adapter).

3.) I was happy Korg Module had some piano/strings patches - the Ivory ones are much better. (Kurzweil is the best IMO).

4.) To my ears iGrand sounds better than the Korg piano's.

5.) Same thing goes with iElectric over Korg E-pianos. (much better)

6.) The Latency on any of the ivory patches was too much to enjoy playing at all - perhaps enough even to properly judge the sound of these patches.

7.) The Korg's strings were weak.

8.) The Korg Organs were usable - but Galileo is much better - It was frustrating that on the Korg you can only assign the pedal as a damper OR a rotary control - You can't use the damper as a sustain and the Mod wheel would act as a Rotary Control Noooooooo! Everyone knows Organs don't really have sustain pedals....No sustain for you! that's just nonsense. In fact I'd like to try using the damper for sustain AND Rotary ( I like it slowing down and speeding up all the time) - I digress...

 

The Verdict - it's not quite there yet.

 

I was excited about finally seeing regular traditional keyboard sounds (Pianos, Strings, Organs, E-Piano's) being produced for the iPad, rather than just analogue synths. Perhaps it's a generational thing - but I have no interest in EDM whatsoever. I never thought I'd say this but portability (and a small footprint) is HUGE for me..I've turned down so many gigs because local stages rarely have room for a keyboard player (with three tiers) load in and load out is too much of a hassle. I'm pretty picky - I'm comparing all these sounds to my Nord Electro 4d and Yamaha Motif (ish) keyboards. I really like using two manuals with as little fiddly bits as possible. I'm not organized enough to do splits and layers...and still swear the best portable unit at this point for me is a Nord Electro 4D and a Yamaha MX49.

 

[AnotherScott]

It's not quite there yet. The Korg/Ivory Patches are really close, but the Latency kills it for me.

 

1.) I'm using a third generation iPad.

It won't work as well on that as would on the newest, but just making sure, you tried the adjustments that can improve latency? (As I understand it, they are accessed from within the Settings app, not Module itself.)

 

I was excited about finally seeing regular traditional keyboard sounds (Pianos, Strings, Organs, E-Piano's) being produced for the iPad, rather than just analogue synths. Perhaps it's a generational thing - but I have no interest in EDM whatsoever.

I don't think the preponderance of synth apps over "traditional" sounds is about market demands, I think it's probably more a matter of what the device lends itself to doing easily. Traditional sounds tend be based on samples, which I think is generally more resource intensive, so not as easy to do on a low-powered device. Also, though, sound manipulation with a touchscreen was an intriguing new direction for synths.

 

I never thought I'd say this but portability (and a small footprint) is HUGE for me..I've turned down so many gigs because local stages rarely have room for a keyboard player (with three tiers) load in and load out is too much of a hassle. I'm pretty picky - I'm comparing all these sounds to my Nord Electro 4d and Yamaha Motif (ish) keyboards. I really like using two manuals with as little fiddly bits as possible. I'm not organized enough to do splits and layers...and still swear the best portable unit at this point for me is a Nord Electro 4D and a Yamaha MX49.

Yeah, that would be a nice combo... sonically, I think it would do a nice job of handling pretty much whatever the typical gigging musician needs. The problem for me is that neither is an action I wouldn't find frustrating for playing piano.

[seratone]

I tried the advanced settings in an attempt to deal with latency - there's not a lot of options there. Audio Latency 32 to 1024 ( I assume it should remain on 1024), Background Audio, Network MIDI and knob gesture.

 

 

I don't think the preponderance of synth apps over "traditional" sounds is about market demands, I think it's probably more a matter of what the device lends itself to doing easily. Traditional sounds tend be based on samples, which I think is generally more resource intensive, so not as easy to do on a low-powered device. Also, though, sound manipulation with a touchscreen was an intriguing new direction for synths.

 

Good point.

 

[AnotherScott]

I tried the advanced settings in an attempt to deal with latency - there's not a lot of options there. Audio Latency 32 to 1024 ( I assume it should remain on 1024),

No, you'll get less latency by lowering that, that's the purpose of that setting. The trade-off is that you may get less polyphony and/or audio glitches... you have to try it on your device, and see how low you can set it before getting undesirable side effects. 1024 is the most conservative (highest latency) setting, and probably not what you want.

[seratone]

I just realized that - it's been a long time since I've been tweaking Latency - like getting B4 and other NI VST's running on a PC that wasn't quite powerful enough - or Sampletank running on an iPhone 3. It's awful feeling, trying to stuff too much data down a tube that isn't quite big enough.

 

I just tried lowering it - 512 is still delayed, 256 is acceptable latency - but crackles a tiny bit every 5 seconds or so , seemingly depending how much sustain pedal I use?.

 

I'd say it's 30% more acceptable than the pre-latency tweak!

[seratone]

.... and the Organ is really growing on me - sustain of the floor and rotary on the touchscreen.

[AnotherScott]

I just tried lowering it - 512 is still delayed, 256 is acceptable latency

I haven't done much of this kind of thing, and don't know if these figures equate to identical latency performance in different software environments, maybe someone can enlighten me. I do know that in my limited VST use on a computer, 256 was likewise the lowest acceptable setting, and I really preferred 128.

[smetaxas]

Bought it & am happy with the sounds but just discovered I can't transpose at all. I need to be able to lower the key 1/2 step to where the band is tuned. Is there any way to do this or do I have to wait for Korg to implement this?

 

On an iPad 3, the lowest I could get the latency without breaking up was 512.

[seratone]

What are you using as a controller? I just tried plugging my iPad into my Yamaha MX49 using an iRig MIDI adapter - and I could drop Module down one step using the transpose button. All Good.

[seratone]

With an iPAD Gen 4 I can only run at 512 latency as well - then again I'm not sure what the improvements the 4 has over the 3 - other than the retina display. I friend has a brand new iPad air - I might be able to convince him to let me put my image on it and try Module at a lower latency...

[analogholic]

On the Air 2 I can run Module at 32 latency.

Feels ok.

[rickp]

With an iPAD Gen 4 I can only run at 512 latency as well - then again I'm not sure what the improvements the 4 has over the 3 - other than the retina display ...

 

iPad gens 1 through 4 and Mini1 have 32 bit processors and LPDDR2 DRAM; Air, Air2, Mini2 and Mini3 have 64 bit processors and LPDDR3 DRAM (and Air2 has an extra gig of DRAM with 2). I tried to use Module on a Mini1 that I use for music charts and Mackie MasterFader IEM mix control so I could have an all-in-one solution, but to get decent polyphony, latency was too high. I found a decent deal on a Mini2 on Apple's Refurb site and Module works great on it.

 

Korg includes a fairly soft disclaimer on its website's Module spec sheet regarding latency/polyphony ratio, but I don't think it is clear how severe that ratio is until the app is tried on a 32bit iPad.

 

Anyone want to buy a 32g Mini1?

[smetaxas]

I was using a M-Audio Keystation 61ES with the apple camera kit adapter but was thinking of getting the Axiom 61 MK2. It has a great weighted feel on the keyboard. Would that be able to transpose the the Korg Module?

[seratone]

So it appears you need the iPad Mini 2 or Air 2 for running Korg Module without latency?

 

I can understand Korg's 'soft disclaimer'...upgrading the iPad just to run Module seems a little cost prohibitive. What other application would you need that much processing power on an iPad for if you already own a previous gen?

[AnotherScott]

So it appears you need the iPad Mini 2 or Air 2 for running Korg Module without latency?

No models provide zero latency. It is lowest on the Air 2. There is no Mini with the processing capability of the Air 2.

 

I can understand Korg's 'soft disclaimer'...upgrading the iPad just to run Module seems a little cost prohibitive. What other application would you need that much processing power on an iPad for if you already own a previous gen?

When more capable models come out, it is natural that you'll see new software taking advantage of the fact that the hardware can now do things that it couldn't effectively do before. It's good that the stuff runs at all on older hardware (and of course is also to the manufacturers' benefit to try to support the older models as best they can because there is a bigger installed base they can sell into), but this does seem like an example of a kind of app that really became viable because the hardware is getting more capable. I don't think they expect people to go out and buy new iPad just to run it, but as time goes on, there will be more and more iPads out there that have this much power and more.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I bought a second iPad, an iPad 3 32GB, (30-pin connection) and have installed all the apps from the iPad Mini 2 32GB. It is definitely slower than the newer mini, however, running Korg Module with 256 set as the latency parameter. While I do get dropouts when holding a lot of stuff with the sustain pedal, it does work well enough for my typical needs with the bands. Latency is very little to my ears, until one hits a bunch of stuff - the pad sound seems most prone (since it has lots of sustain even without pedaling).

 

I got the iPad 3 at a good price, and wanted it largely for the larger display reading electronic books and so forth. The larger screen is definitely good for using it as a PDF sheet music reader. So, I'll experiment more with it Friday night (and carry the mini in cease it is needed).

[Botanicus]

I just started using Module live with it hooked up to my MOXF6 through USB. Works great on my iPad Air (1). I went through my MOXF Master patches to disable MIDI out on most, then have a Master patch with local off and external on I use with Module (because of the omni on).

 

It works like a charm with a dedicated fader return. Korg and Yamaha together! Loving the Module organs and Ivory and Whirly. Yamaha for guitars, accordion, banjo, horns, what have you. Really really nice and portable.

 

I tried hooking up my Axiom 49 (early version) to the iPad but think the Axiom needs to be plugged in with wall wart adaptor. The iPad Air didn't seem able to power it with the USB bus but maybe I'm doing something wrong?

 

Also the Module Set List feature is terrific for backing tracks, so I've been busy assembling those for a potential duo gig. In short, highly recommended especially if you've got a recent iPad. Next stop is futzing with Gadget, there's a wealth of synth possibilities there along with the Module sounds but think the latency is a little higher with it. More testing to be done.

 

 

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I received an email from Korg today, announcing version 1.1 of Korg Module, with the following improvements:

Version 1.1 New Features (2015.3.30 Update)

 

Now supports MIDI Channel Change

Now supports Global Transpose

An issue that caused an unnecessary backup of "Ivory Mobile Grand" and "Wurley Electric Piano" in your iCloud is now fixed.

Please ensure that you remake your iCloud back up in the iOS settings after updating.

Other improvements have been made to enhance stability.

 

The Transpose and MIDI Channel Change options are welcomed.

 

 

[Sven Golly]

Yep; also posted by rickp in a new thread here.

[Tony Piano]

Hi music folx!

 

Can anyone speak about the practicality of this module for live performance?

 

I am using a MidiMan Express 88 controller and hope to use an Ipad Air 2 (as recommended by Korg).

 

How well might this work?

 

I understand I also need an Apple Lightning Camera(??) Adapter to control this app via USB.

 

Any one experienced at this?

 

I am mostly concerned with using a MOBILE setup and REFUSE to lug UNCOMPENSATED, dual keyboard, multi-thousand dollar equipment that is over-weighted and soon becomes outdated, ANY LONGER!

 

I am happy with even ONE "good enough for the gig" sound but would appreciated more, of course!

 

It promises sooo much and I am thinking of using it to add track/parts to my LIVE performances...

 

Even if I had to use TWO iPads it'd be feasible!

 

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Welcome to the forum. I run Module on an iPad Mini (not 2) for an ultra light setup for some live performances, and also sometimes use the iPad as an additional sound module.

The Apple Usb to Lightning adapter is needed for midi input, output is through the phone jack.

Either a self powered controller or one that does not draw too much power from the iPad is needed.

Sounds are quite adequate. The Organ & Leslie effect are good. I also have the added Wurly and Ivory in app purchases.

Without added power, I have done 2.5 hours and had about 60% power left.

I don't use the brass or synth sounds that much.

When using as an added sound module, I also use Animoog, Nave synth, iCathedral, SampleTank, and Galileo apps.

For longer and more involved performances, I still use the full size boards.

 

[Tony Piano]

Thanx 4 tha quick reply!

 

By "(not 2) are you referring to the Air Pad 2?

 

I wonder if using the phone jack is a good idea or would an audio interface be better?

 

What does it take to get the full polyphony promised (Air Pad 2 = "up to") 74 notes?

 

Does any one know of any good hardware modules - I noticed the Vienna piano module - but it's ONLY acoustic piano, I believe.

 

ANY good hardware module with good polyphony - I believe the module market is just above nil!

 

I wonder what the advantage to a "full sized board" is?

I find them to be too big, too heavy and you are UNCOMPENSATED for the multi - THOUSAND dollar price tag and the cost of lugging and transporting!

 

I think the band "leader" should produce the keyboard as that is often a hiring question - who ever asks the drummer what kind of kit does he have?

Is what kind of trumpet you're playing a question asked by bandleaders?

 

If I can get good piano/electric/organ sounds, I'm not caring about the rest very much - just the polyphony!

 

If the band wants to make a case about particular keyboard sounds, let them provide them!

 

I'm just bringing a controller and module/Air Pad!

 

Just thoughts for discussion...

[MoodyBluesKeys]

My meaning: my iPad mini is the first mini, not the mini 2. It does have full polyphony using Korg Module, and it does have a 64-bit processor. I also have an older iPad 3 (full size) which is 32-bit and noticeably slower running apps. The phone jack does work well, I did have to get a thinner plug and lightweight cable.

 

Most companies have not been producing hardware modules in the past few years. The explanation generally is that there were not enough sales to justify building the separate form factor (example - the Kurzweil PC3 series - the circuit boards used in the full keyboard models would not fit in the most common module sizes (1/2 rack width or full rack width). Building special circuit boards to fit is expensive. Also, control of rack modules is a bit of a problem with single height units, there just isn't room for all the knobs and display needed.

 

Advantage of a full size board is primarily that it is ONE piece (plus cabling, foot pedals, etc.) to haul in and out - it is a dedicated device for producing certain sounds.

 

Costs - Keyboards are nowhere near as costly as many other instruments. Just price a pro level baritone sax or a bassoon. For that matter, most orchestral players provide multiple instruments (a woodwind player is likely to have flute, clarinet, maybe an oboe in a symphonic orchestra, in a "big-band" likely to have clarinet, Alto and Tenor Sax. I've seen artist level gold flutes that were worth over $100K.

 

In the mechanic trade, most mechanics (at least in this part of the world) are expected to have a full professional set of the common tools, the dealership only provides the specialized tools (and there are many of them) for the particular make and model cars. In the building trade, electricians, carpenters, plumbers, etc. are expected to provide their own tools. The contractor company likely provides some of the big stuff like a DitchWitch or bulldozer, but the small stuff is up to the worker.

 

I can't think of any reason that a band "leader" should provide the instruments of the players.

 

Back to the iPad - I do NOT use it for all performances. It is used mostly for jams, quick "pick-up" gigs, times when the church band needs to accompany the choir at a choir-festival where only one or maybe two songs will be done by our group. I normally have a PC3 and PC2 on a two tier Z stand at church - because I don't want to have to haul stuff in and out several times a week. My 88 key PC2X is my wife's personal piano, my 88 key PC3X usually is in my shop/studio although I do have cases and can carry either or both out. My primary travel-about rig is either (or both) a PC361 or Hammond SK1.

 

The little 49 key MIDI controller and iPad are used for an ultra-portable rig or sometimes for a bit of synth goodness along with one of the full size rigs.

 

As it happens, I don't presently play for $$, but for enjoyment and as a music ministry. However, those who go make a livelihood from playing generally purchase gear based on both personal preference and also on what genre (example: a jazz quartet and a death-metal rock group will not likely find the same instrumentation).

 

The only gear that most bands provide tends to be PA gear and lighting gear/smoke generators/special effects. Then, the money for purchase comes from the players pooling $$ (this is a whole subject in itself, with some blessings and many potential pitfalls).

 

Tony, you have some good thoughts, but in the real world of music, some of those ideas are not likely to be received well by other band members. I personally do wish that companies were still making good pro modules. I must confess that using two boards instead of one is easier for me than setting up zones and splits on one board (I had some training on classical style organ, and am used to different sounds from each manual), but one board is definitely easier to load in and out. Not to mention that my current vehicle is nowhere near as much space as the van that it replaced (but a LOT better mileage).

 

[Giancarlo Robles]

Reviving this thread with a question. I'm considering purchasing an ipad mini 2 to use with korg module. I know that the max polyphony is 64, but I was wondering how good of a performance will it have with the soft pads included in module? If I play for example a triad and hold the sustain pedal so the pad sounds continue for a while, will I encounter skips and drops in notes? Will it be too bad or noticeable during a Sunday service?

[MoodyBluesKeys]

No problem on my mini 2. I have not tried to see just how many notes can be sustained, but I have used it in church. For a month or so last Nov., all my regular gear was packed away because of a church play, so I used the iPad and Carbon 49 into a DI, into FOH mixer as my sole rig.