whitefang Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 When Jack Bruce died, I posted that some years back, I found an old LP he had recorded with JOHN McLAUGHLIN in a thrift shop. Was in the basement yesterday, and spotting a row of old vinyl in a bookcase where I stored them after I moved here, I decided to take about a minute or two and flip through them to...."See if I can find that JACK BRUCE LP I posted on the forum..." Well, wouldn't you know it? The FIRST LP I pulled out, was IT! Titled "Things We Like", With a photo of Jack, looking rather Michael Palin-ish, sitting in tall grass with a plate of "Bangers and Mash" while surrounded by a few dogs. It mentions all the other personel with not very large print as: John McLaughlin, Dick Heckstall-Smith, and a drummer named Jon Hiseman. The BACK brings up some interesting info: At one point, next to the "c in a circle" symbol for "copywrite" that I can't replicate here is the year 1971! So it doesn't pre date McLaughlin's Mahavishnu output by very much. However, further down the back, there's printed the following information--- "Recorded at i.b.c. studios, London, August '68" About THREE MONTHS before CREAM "officially" supposedly broke up! Actually, you don't hear much from McLaughlin until the third track, but you can tell where he's headed from there...so it is interesting. And Bruce's bass work is FAR more outstanding than anything he's heard doing with CREAM. In several places, it sounds as if he's playing a STAND-UP bass! Which I understand he did study the Double bass viola earlier in life. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Interesting stuff...as a side note, why do they call it a double bass? I'm guessing it's due to a longer scale length neck/fret board...I wonder how long the double bass term has been in use? I've been hearing it more and more these days and I feel like I've been in the dark all these years... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEHpicker Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Double bass normally refers to the standup bass - but is also commonly used for a double bass drum kit. SEHpicker The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I get it on the double bass drum kit...but I still wonder why they call the stand up bass a double bass? and how long have they been known as a double bass? Ps. Never mind...I went on Wiki and read all about the bass and the many names that refer to the upright, stringed, stand up, double, etc. Back in the late 1800's these kinds of terms were used to distinguish it from a wind instrument. At one time bass players were required to know both...anyhow, +1 SEHpicker, it's basically just a another term to describe the instrument as far as I can tell. Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danzilla Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I'm familiar with Hiseman from Colosseum/Colosseum II. That line up seems to be a good one. "Am I enough of a freak to be worth paying to see?"- Separated Out (Marillion) NEW band Old band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele C. Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Dick Heckstall Smith was in Colosseum too. I remember seeing them with Chris Farlowe as a singer. It was a monumental Group, they were the times of Valentyne Suite. Dick Heckstall Smith played two saxophones at once at times, but it is just trick, you can play very few notes with just one hand per sax. -- Michele Costabile (http://proxybar.net) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 Roland Kirk did OK blowin' two at once! Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 "The names contrabass and double bass refer to the instrument's range and use in the contra octave below the cello" Cool find, whitefang! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Yes, I saw that reference in the terminology in the Wiki article on what the bass does as far as being an octave lower using standard tuning E A D G and many other interesting things like other tunings, more than 4 strings on some models, gut strings, lack of volume, child sizes, etc. However it doesn't really tell when or why the term started being used as opposed to the others already in use. In the early 70's there were musical scores written for the "Double Bass" but that was the earliest date I found for this description. When I saw how many more names are given for the same instrument doing exactly the same thing and the debates over which family of instruments they belong to, it no longer really mattered to me. I'll just call it a standup bass as I have been doing for many years. At least we know its an octave below a cello LOL! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele C. Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Well, violoncello, in Italian means something like little violone, and violone means big violin. So the lineup would be violino, viola, violoncello and violine. This has a counterpart in mandolino, mandola, mandoloncello and mandolone. Contrabbasso comes from basso contro, with the word contro used as counter, as in countermelody, rather than against as it would sound today. In fact, the contrabass has been the instrument playing the fundamental of chords long before the piano could compete in that range. That said, I would be curious to know the origin of double bass, since I have found no trace of the term in classical music, so, I guess, it must have come out in modern use. -- Michele Costabile (http://proxybar.net) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric VB Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 That said, I would be curious to know the origin of double bass, since I have found no trace of the term in classical music, so, I guess, it must have come out in modern use. I did not play bass in the school orchestra -- I played tuba -- but I'm pretty sure all the classical sheet music was scored for "double bass". That may be modern usage. I know some older scores had weird things in them. For example, I had to play the "ophicleide" part once because there was no tuba part. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/Ophicleide_001.jpg/100px-Ophicleide_001.jpg Speaking of tuba, the most common is probably the BBb variety (that's read "double B flat"). Why double? I'm guessing it has to do with the English multiple C notation variation of Helmholtz pitch notation. So it just seems natural for me that a string bass would also be "double". Back to Jack, it seems he fancied cello (Jack "won a scholarship to study cello and musical composition at the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama") but ended up choosing jazz (and bass) in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 At least we know its an octave below a cello LOL! It plays in the octave below the cello but it's not tuned an octave below cello. Cellos are tuned in fifths; C, G, D, A. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 At least we know its an octave below a cello LOL! It plays in the octave below the cello but it's not tuned an octave below cello. Cellos are tuned in fifths; C, G, D, A. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bass <---here's the article... I would tune mine like a bass guitar E A D G but there are other tunings for the bass (F A D E, E G# D G, E G D A) according to the article. One of which is "A small number of bass players tune their strings in fifths. Like a Cello but an octave lower C G D A low to high." ps. +1 not arguing with the pro, just sharing some info... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bass <---here's the article... I would tune mine like a bass guitar E A D G but there are other tunings for the bass (F A D E, E G# D G, E G D A) according to the article. One of which is "A small number of bass players tune their strings in fifths. Like a Cello but an octave lower C G D A low to high." That's interesting. I guess the key phrase there is "a small number". In working with string bass players for 35 or more years I've never run across any tuned in 5ths or the other listed tunings. Of course C extensions are common amongst orchestral bass players which are keys which allow access to Eb, D, Db & C on the E string behind the nut, but the string is still tuned to E at the nut. And there are occasional scordatura parts written for cello which require the C string tuned down to Bb or B. And various folk traditions involve a number of alternative tunings for violins, so it's not unreasonable to imagine the occasional player using a non-traditional tuning for bass. But very very rare in the real world. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Wow! All this from my finding a 43 year old LP! Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 +1 Scott, most of us will never experience an orchestra that travels with several basses, some of which are tuned to 3rds and 5ths... ps. this info is as described in the article as I have, and never will have, any such experience...but if I ever do, I'm going to be watching closely LOL! pss. Sorry Fang, not trying any hijacking here LOL! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted November 8, 2014 Author Share Posted November 8, 2014 Oh, I ain't complaining. But it IS interesting how threads can go off in all directions, just like too many conversations I've been in. And besides, I too, always wondered about this "double bass" stuff. I got into classical music in earnest about 1975, when I grew more curious about the original works that ELP were setting to "rock like" arrangements.( "Rodeo", and "Pictures At An Exhibition"), and I set out to gain more info. I had always sort of liked classical music, but mostly from a "distance", not knowing WHO composed what, or WHO conducted the orchestra, and why it made a difference,so I started out with what I considered a "basic". I knew of Beethoven's 5th symphony, but was only familiar with the first four notes(three the same). So I went to E.J. Korvette's, a local department store with a fanTAStic record department, and bought two LPs. I'll admit that I mostly relied on some name recognition. I bought a Beethoven 5th recording by the NBC orchestra conducted by Toscanini. I had heard THAT name before,AND "Pictures"--a two sided LP with an orchestral version on one side, and just a piano version other. The piano played by Vladimir Horowitz, ANOTHER name I was, for some reason, familiar with. Well, all tis rambling only leads to, after gaining more info and insight to orchestral music and instrumentation, I ran across the term "double bass", and as I SAW no difference in the appearance of the instrument from what I knew as the "Bass viola", I too, wondered why it was called that. I first mused, since I was a long time John McLaughlin fan, that the "Double bass" would be somehow double NECKED!(hee-hee-hee!) Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I have some Vladimir somewhere on a classical piano CD which I haven't played for awhile...guess I'll have to take a trip through my stash down memory lane and see if I can find it! Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Well, anyway.....Bruce's work on "Things We Like" is outstanding given what scant knowledge most fans of Cream had about bruce and/or jazz in general at the time. Recorded in 1968? At THAT time, most of us were just starting to groove on them "newcomers" like GRAND FUNK RAILROAD, and a group called FROST with some guy named DICK WAGNER playing lead! I don't have the 'puter savvy to post links, but if I find any YouTube clips of "Things We Like" on the site, I'll come back here and let you know. IF you don't beat me to it! Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Yeah, you can find clips on YouTube. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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