I-missRichardTee Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Is this attempt at portability for a Leslie, of musical value today? I have the top and the bottom, in storage, may try it with Mojo. What is it's current $$ value? Barely used. self directed You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Is this attempt at portability for a Leslie, of musical value today? most agree current leslie sims in stereo through powered speakers sound better that the System 2101. I agree and I am a former owner of the system. Sold it when I bought my origioal Ventilator almost 3 years ago now. I have the top and the bottom, in storage, may try it with Mojo. It won't make your Mojo sound better. We had discussed Benjie Porecki over a year ago. He uses the Mojo internal sim through a pair of OSC K8's. I have heard it and it sounded fantastic, and that was before the sim was upgraded. What is it's current $$ value? Barely used. self directed No one is rushing out to buy these anymore. Try to find a stationary application, like a church or a club where it doesn't need to be moved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I'm not sure that most agree that current leslie sims in stereo sound better than the 2100 system. Leslie sims are far more portable, simpler and weigh far less but I don't think the consensus is that they sound better. 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I'm not sure that most agree that current leslie sims in stereo sound better than the 2100 system. we will have to agree to disagree, then I'm referring to the top of the line sims. Vent, Burn, Mojo, C2D, SK1/2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 OT but, "sound better" WHERE, to the player or to the band or to the audience? For me, it's me that is most important; when it comes to sound. You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 For me, it's me that is most important; when it comes to sound. How silly of me. I would have thought it would have been your audience. That's where I put the perspective of my answer. Since what is important to you is you, why are you asking us? :idk Break it out and let us know what you think is better for you. Your audience is already happy with the internal sim on your Mojo for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 Dave. I appreciated your response, and was not intending anything negative. 2100 system has been in storage. My comment was regarding that phrase .. it "sounds better". I am sorry for any misunderstanding. It's a philosophical point - I always say, happier artist, yields better performance. I prefer the better performance, to sound, when I am attending a show. I hope this helps. You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Dave. I appreciated your response, and was not intending anything negative. 2100 system has been in storage. My comment was regarding that phrase .. it "sounds better". I am sorry for any misunderstanding. It's a philosophical point - I always say, happier artist, yields better performance. I prefer the better performance, to sound, when I am attending a show. I hope this helps. I hear you. The people on this forum using a Mojo that I am aware of are few. Other than yourself, Dave Bradley, Mitch Towne, Benjie Porecki, Six String Man, Craig MacDonald come to mind. None of them are using a System 21. Two Hammond users that used to use a System 21 that come to mind are Jim Alfredson and Joe Genossa (joeygb3ny). All the Mojo users listed used the internal sim or a Vent or a Burn. JA now uses a Ventilator and JG uses the internal sim. Where I'm going with this, is if the System 21 sounded "better" why aren't more people using it? It doesn't sound like a vintage leslie for sure. I understand "better" is subjective, I should have been more clear. Truer to a vintage 122/147 would be my description of better, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 That makes sense -) You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 That makes sense -) you are the first person ever to tell me that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-string-man Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Moe (mate stubb) has a Mojo - or at least, he used to, not sure if he still has it. Don't know what he's using for rotary sounds for it. SSM Occasionally, do something nice for a total stranger. They'll wonder what the hell is going on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Brother Aidan has a Mojo (and other great gear, lucky swine...) Cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Moe (mate stubb) has a Mojo - or at least, he used to, not sure if he still has it. Don't know what he's using for rotary sounds for it. I use a MiniVent. Sometimes a Speakeasy AMA is in the chain, and so I don't use the internal sim since overdrive after the sim causes problems. If I didn't have the MiniVent already mounted in a tiny box with the mixer, I would have no qualms about using the internal sim for those times when I don't bring the AMA. I've played in loud enough bands over the years that I have always heard the leslie thru speakers, even when it was a real one. So I find the best sims do an excellent job of reproducing a miced leslie. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightbg Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 FWIW, I still use my 2101(gen 1) with my Nord C1. However with my Electro4D I rely on the internal sim, usually for space considerations. The C1's sim is 1st gen and doesn't sound nearly as good as the Electro's. With the 2101 it easily equals and even surpasses the 4D because it's the real deal: moving air is something a sim has yet to do. Jake 1967 B-3 w/(2) 122's, Nord C1w/Leslie 2101 top, Nord PedalKeys 27, Nord Electro 4D, IK B3X, QSC K12.2, Yamaha reface YC+CS+CP "It needs a Hammond" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 moving air is something a sim has yet to do. Jake here we go again about moving air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightbg Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 moving air is something a sim has yet to do. Jake here we go again about moving air Dave, Are you running for Forum Curmudgeon? You've got my vote! JK 1967 B-3 w/(2) 122's, Nord C1w/Leslie 2101 top, Nord PedalKeys 27, Nord Electro 4D, IK B3X, QSC K12.2, Yamaha reface YC+CS+CP "It needs a Hammond" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 For the record, I retired the Leslie 21 System from my road rig with Janiva Magness only because I got tired of hauling it around. When you have to load-in and load-out your own rig every night for weeks on end, it gets a bit tiring. But I still use a real Leslie for every jazz gig I do. Why? Because of... yes... moving air. On stage, when the organ is the main driving force of the band, a real Leslie fills up the space like nothing else. As good as all the sims are, they cannot and do not replace the acoustic environment that a real Leslie creates on stage. So now I use the Leslie 21 System for most organ gigs where I'm kickin' bass. If it's a big stage / outdoor concert, I bring the more powerful Leslie 3300 and a sub (or the 2121 bottom cabinet... that thing rules). Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 For the record, I retired the Leslie 21 System from my road rig with Janiva Magness only because I got tired of hauling it around. When you have to load-in and load-out your own rig every night for weeks on end, it gets a bit tiring. you know Jim, the next day after your gig in Bethesda I felt bad for not offering to help you pack up your gear as we were chatting. I was just so dog tired (came straight to the gig from work and had to work the next day) it didn't occur to me until driving home. But I still use a real Leslie for every jazz gig I do. Why? Because of... yes... moving air. On stage, when the organ is the main driving force of the band, a real Leslie fills up the space like nothing else. As good as all the sims are, they cannot and do not replace the acoustic environment that a real Leslie creates on stage. So now I use the Leslie 21 System for most organ gigs where I'm kickin' bass. If it's a big stage / outdoor concert, I bring the more powerful Leslie 3300 and a sub (or the 2121 bottom cabinet... that thing rules). of course. It's just that the OP wasn't referring to jazz trio gigs, that's what my response was geared towards. I agree about the 2121 cabinet. I have 2 of them. I thought I had them sold but never recieved the money so I repossessed them. Vastly underrated speaker cabinets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 moving air is something a sim has yet to do. Jake here we go again about moving air Dave, Are you running for Forum Curmudgeon? You've got my vote! JK thanks for your vote of confidence. I don't think I would stand a chance against some others around here. FWIW, my first ever amplifier was a 145 that I got in 1976 for my 16th birthday. I currently own a 142. I love the sound of a leslie. It's just that the argument about moving air just for the sake of moving air has been going on for so long that it's tiresome. There are other and sometimes better alternatives. I'm going to try to work the "Forum Curmudgeon" into my Halloween avatar, as soon as I figure out what it really means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightbg Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 moving air is something a sim has yet to do. Jake here we go again about moving air Dave, Are you running for Forum Curmudgeon? You've got my vote! JK thanks for your vote of confidence. I don't think I would stand a chance against some others around here. FWIW, my first ever amplifier was a 145 that I got in 1976 for my 16th birthday. I currently own a 142. I love the sound of a leslie. It's just that the argument about moving air just for the sake of moving air has been going on for so long that it's tiresome. There are other and sometimes better alternatives. I'm going to try to work the "Forum Curmudgeon" into my Halloween avatar, as soon as I figure out what it really means. Ironically enough, my first amplifier was a 122 attached to a B-3 a month after my 16th birthday ( my mom had a say in this and she opted for the Cherry finish - had to be ordered). This was in 1967. In '73 I added another and went on tour for a few years, but finally came home and I've been using them for (as of 10/13/14) 47 years. Love the avatar Jake 1967 B-3 w/(2) 122's, Nord C1w/Leslie 2101 top, Nord PedalKeys 27, Nord Electro 4D, IK B3X, QSC K12.2, Yamaha reface YC+CS+CP "It needs a Hammond" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 The sum of my experiences with clone B3, in 2005 and since 2013- the present . Around 2005 I tried Leslie 2101 and 2201 with CX3 and with Suzuki XK3 The CX3 sounded better withOUT the 2100, because CX3 effects gave me something that I missed when 2100 was in the path. In other words I had to shut effects off in CX3, not a good idea. The XK3 on its own, let me down I call it .. the "too much of a good thing syndrome" .. at first you will love this Suzuki strong resemblance to the B3, but then when I tried to back off this tonal footprint, I found I could not, so I switched to the previous generation Korg CX3! I was stuck with this color in the XK3. 4 scenarios from my 2005 period of experiences 1 CX3 on its own 2 XK3 on its own 3 CX3 with 2100 4 XK3 with 2100 My conclusion ( admittedly based on little experience ) With 2100, the XK3 was the strong winner. Conclusion Suzuki and Leslie 2100 were DESIGNED for one another. Without 2100, I strongly preferred the less than perfect CX3. Can anyone venture a hunch as to why I preferred the non-leslied CX3 to the non Leslie XK3? Fast forward to the present I have CX3 and a Mojo. I have yet to try the 2100 system since 2005.. I need to try it with Mojo. Next issue.. I have been playing B3 a lot more starting in 2013. With much Louder gigs, the Mojo has been OK. it stills needs some warming up in the solo side, but it is quite good in general. However, today I played a SOFT jazz ( hardly "jazz" with a machine- dont crucify me) gig with a drum machine, and the Mojo with 2 K10s at lower volumes was underwhelming. I think learning the subtleties of playing softer and left hand bass is its own animalm requiring much experimentation. I do not have a clue how to make lower volume gigs sound more full without bumping into the too loud area. Perhaps the 2100 with Mojo is the answer for softer gigs, that need balls without too much volume? Any help appreciated. You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 moving air is something a sim has yet to do. Jake here we go again about moving air What do you mean here we go again.. moving air! What are you a curmudgeon? You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I am currently listening to dry board mixes on CD from a September 5th gig. I swear this Vent sounds consistently better than my Leslies did. Maybe a dry board mix is not the truest representative of what the crowd actually hears? "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I am currently listening to dry board mixes on CD from a September 5th. I swear this Vent sounds consistently better than my Leslies did. Maybe a dry board mix is not the truest representative of what the crowd actually hears? I am currently rerecording tracks on a rock album for which I originally used a Hammond C-3 and 3 leslies - a 122 and two Speakeasy Roadboxes. My new chain of Mojo->AMA->MiniVent gave me killer results on the first track I redid. As a reference, I am going for a very vivid and dramatic Gregg Rolie sound. The real leslies were too pretty sounding. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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