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A100 1' drawbar


dazzjazz

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I've been wondering for a while if other A100 owners find that the 1' drawbar is a little overpowering? If I use it all the way out it could easily take my head off!

 

Interestingly, the A100 modelling in my KeyB Duo is exactly the same.

 

Thoughts?

www.dazzjazz.com

PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation.

BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano.

1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Viscount Legend Live.

 

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First thought is that's why it goes from zero to 8. Yes, it does get overpowering, especially if played back through a modern amplifier/speaker system that goes up to above audible range. The original amps and speakers lost a lot at the higher frequencies. A Hammond speaker system like a PR20 or PR40 only had 10" and 12" speakers, no tweeters.

After all, the note produced is three octaves higher than the key pressed at 8' (piano pitch).

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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B-3s are generally older than A-100s having been around longer, and they tend to mellow as the caps age. The A-100 probably sounds closer to a factory fresh organ.

Moe

---

"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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Indeed, this sounds like an organ that has either been recapped, or came from the factory with the red mylar caps on the generator.

 

As MoodyBluesKeys mentioned, the treble roll-off endemic to both the Hammond tone cabinets and Leslies speakers also cannot be ignored. Even though the Leslie has a tweeter, the V21 is not very efficient. I worked out the math for some Hammond patches on a DX7 a while back, starting by measuring output on my L100. I wound up with patches that would rip your head off in the high register when played through a keyboard amp, but were quite good-sounding when played through a Leslie.

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3

Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H

Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9

Roland: VR-09, RD-800

 

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Well to clarify - is it different to how most B3s sound on the 1' drawbar?

 

As Moe mentioned, because of age of the B3's, hard to make an always definitive answer. However, when the B3's were brand new and when the A100 was brand new; the 1' drawbar output was probably quite similar - if they were fed through the same amplification and speaker system (the A-100 uses pretty much the same generator and preamplifier as the B3 - but the power amplifier is a bit different and the internal speakers are also somewhat different than an original Hammond tone cabinet. The Leslie cabinet is yet another change in its frequency response. NONE of the original organ "tone cabinets" or combination of tube type amplifier and speaker cabinets of the time period between 1930 and 1980 had much in the way of high frequency response. Rodgers and Allen church instruments did have some tweeter type speakers in their setups, but they were primarily emulating pipe organs which tend to have more high frequency content in the reeds and principals.

 

Actually, the response of all nine drawbars is not really consistent between one Hammond tonewheel and another - one of the primary reasons that simply copying someone else's drawbar registration frequently does not give a similar sound, but should be considered as only a starting point.

 

This whole discussion does make me wonder just how my SK1 would sound going through a PR40 Hammond tone cabinet (but not wondering enough to actually load one in and out at a gig). One reason that the Vent has been successful is that they have accurately simulated the "cabinet" - i.e. the resonance and frequency response of the 122 Leslie - even when fed into a modern full response audio system.

 

Kind of like how a vinyl record can sound better on a song of the record period than a CD does, even though the CD is technically a better medium.

 

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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Leslie's should never use high frequency drivers either. Anything 8k or above should never be heard. Stock V21 or Atlas PD-60s or there is also an EV driver that worked well. EV-1829 maybe.

 

Some guys are using those Selenium D250 driver because they are less than $40 and are rated at 150 watts but they run up to 9K. I wouldn't run those.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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The generator in an A100 and a B3 are absolutely identical, as are the preamps for any given year. And the manuals, drawbars, matching transformers, vibrato scanner, etc, ad nauseum, including pretty much everything except the wood and the length of the wires to the pedals. If you tap your A100 output at the G/G or G/gnd terminals of the AO-28, you will get exactly the same sound as a B3. If you use the output from the AO-39 you may find that it colours the sound a bit (in particular, boosting the low-end). Using the AO-39 on the A100 is common, because it makes it easier to mix in the reverb signal from the AO-43 when going to a single channel Leslie like a 122 or 147.

 

1961 would not have been red caps, but they were using caps by then which have been known to hold up with little or no drift -- better sealing technology than the caps used up into the late 50s. Hammond knew about the effects of drifting capacitors in the generator by then, and was working to make them better. Swapping filter trays in the field was SOP to fix this back then.

 

I agree with the comments about the Vent. Modelling the amp and cabinet is just as important as modelling the tremulant rotor and rotating drum. "That" sound is a combination of many things.

 

Adjusting the tone control on the AO-28 is a good suggestion. Turned all the way clockwise (common), it allows the full sound through. You can turn it to the left to take some of the high end out.

 

Wes

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3

Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H

Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9

Roland: VR-09, RD-800

 

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The 1' should be good and bright. While a '61 still has wax-dipped paper caps I find these usually still sound pretty good IME. Mid/late '62 they went to the orange paper General Instrument caps which IME are even more stable. '64 saw the redcaps show up. My '63 B-3 has a bit more bite on the 1' than my '62 and '61 A-100's which have the wax-dipped caps from Fast Co. Most bitey 1' award goes to the oak '66 A-105 which I found the other day scratching at the door wanting to be let in. ;) Redcap, of course. Also has foam, but no missing tones (I will be defoaming it anyway.)

 

---

Todd A. Phipps

"...no, I'm not a Hammondoholic...I can stop anytime..."

http://www.facebook.com/b3nut ** http://www.blueolives.com

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'64 saw the redcaps show up...

'66 A-105 ... Redcap, of course. Also has foam

 

Great info here Wes & B3nut, thx!

 

When exactly was the foam introduced for A100s ?

 

I´ll check out a for a very long time not been played Hammond A100 from a studio´s stock.

I hope they locked the generator before they moved it together w/ Leslie from recording room into stock.

 

A.C.

 

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Foam generally early '64, though I have a sneaking suspicion that it started trickling in really late '63...I'm working on an A-100 that has caps dated mid/late '63 that has a foam upper manual and felt lower...an infamous "transition" box. All of the solder joints on the manuals and generator are untouched and look original...

 

 

---

Todd A. Phipps

"...no, I'm not a Hammondoholic...I can stop anytime..."

http://www.facebook.com/b3nut ** http://www.blueolives.com

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I use it a lot to add some color over the bottom 3

drawbars , but yea , all the way out is a bit much ,

I've recapped a few organs and it really comes alive so

I guess that's why most of the clones do the same thing .

I have a keyb expander and that #1 drawbar can really cut

through the mix but I like throw it in there everynow and then

to sweeten up the pot

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The generator in an A100 and a B3 are absolutely identical, as are the preamps for any given year. And the manuals, drawbars, matching transformers, vibrato scanner, etc, ad nauseum, including pretty much everything except the wood and the length of the wires to the pedals. If you tap your A100 output at the G/G or G/gnd terminals of the AO-28, you will get exactly the same sound as a B3. If you use the output from the AO-39 you may find that it colours the sound a bit (in particular, boosting the low-end). Using the AO-39 on the A100 is common, because it makes it easier to mix in the reverb signal from the AO-43 when going to a single channel Leslie like a 122 or 147.

 

1961 would not have been red caps, but they were using caps by then which have been known to hold up with little or no drift -- better sealing technology than the caps used up into the late 50s. Hammond knew about the effects of drifting capacitors in the generator by then, and was working to make them better. Swapping filter trays in the field was SOP to fix this back then.

 

I agree with the comments about the Vent. Modelling the amp and cabinet is just as important as modelling the tremulant rotor and rotating drum. "That" sound is a combination of many things.

 

Adjusting the tone control on the AO-28 is a good suggestion. Turned all the way clockwise (common), it allows the full sound through. You can turn it to the left to take some of the high end out.

 

Wes

 

++++1111 As Wes states, there is absolutely no difference between a B3, C3, A100 component and sound wise, the exact same generators , scanners, and "guts were used ", just different cabinets. The only difference is more bottom end coming off the power amp for the internal speakers. The era of caps used is the most significant factor in the higher tones. As stated, you can dial back the higher tone on the A0-28 pre amp

"Ive been playing Hammond since long before anybody paid me to play one, I didn't do it to be cool, I didnt do it to make a statement......I just liked it "

 

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