Thinking about starting over and going all virtual

[Markay]

CEB, which pedal do you use for half pedalling?

 

Gets tricky with single 'do it all' controllers. With the Axiom the sustain input is on/off, you need to plug a half pedal into into the expression input which supports TRS - and map it to cc64. However then you lose the expression pedal option, critical for use with VB3 for example.

 

With 2 controllers, one being a dedicated 88 AP, provided it supports expression or TRS sustain it would not be an issue.

[David Emm]

Jason, I concur with the view that you should keep the Fantom, for both its noted synth abilities AND good action, a constant wart for players these days. I started on piano, so even having gone non-acoustic, I still have the technique. Weighted actions are particularly subjective, but I've found it perfectly rewarding to go all-synth. There's much to be said for the purity of "Real," but for me, there's even more to be said for the vast real estate I can cover in Logic. Synths are easier on the hands over time, too.

 

Rather than knock on about that aspect, here's an added bit to consider: program your own pianos. You may not get the absolute purity of Ivory or Pianoteq; you may have to struggle to get half-pedaling to work; and you may not be able to devise a super-sensitive ballad piano. That still leaves quite a bit open to you. I don't know the wave compliment in a Fantom, but my older Korg has enough clout that layering high and low samples, string bass in the lower two octaves and a light pad behind it all for body resonance equals a meaty rock piano. Logic's pianos are serviceable, but I would not use them for Rachmaninoff. It mainly depends on what KIND of piano you want. I have four main pianos built as described and I'd have to go with a dedicated plug to get much better quality.

 

So consider that while any Nord piano is a thing of beauty, what you have available within Logic is considerable. A more modest Privia might end up being ideal.

[CEB]

CEB, which pedal do you use for half pedalling?

 

Gets tricky with single 'do it all' controllers. With the Axiom the sustain input is on/off, you need to plug a half pedal into into the expression input which supports TRS - and map it to cc64. However then you lose the expression pedal option, critical for use with VB3 for example.

 

With 2 controllers, one being a dedicated 88 AP, provided it supports expression or TRS sustain it would not be an issue.

 

Half pedaling is the damper or sustain pedaling. FWIW the Casio does not do half pedaling out of the box however the Kool Aid crew will explain how it can if you buy some 3rd party add-ons to make it do what it won't do.

[Jasonbass32]

You guys have convinced me to keep the fantom as a master controller. Lots of other benefits to this as well. If I want more hands on control I can always add something like the novation zero to my CPU setup.

 

As far as the piano side goes. I have no background as a piano player. 20+ years as a bass and and acoustic guitar player. I think this is why I was steared to the sw board on the nord forum. Just got into playing keyboards about five years ago. Advanced expression control is not of high importance to me (at least not yet). I want a quality action that I can connect to. I prefer the weighted action to be on the lighter side of weighted action if that makes sense. The casio px5s at $900 or the kawai mp6 at $1200 are both in the range I am looking to spend since I will be buying some expensive software

[CEB]

Both lean toward the heavier side. MP6 has way better controller functionality ( without buying more doo-dads). If you aren't pianist looking to get the most out of your virtual soft pianos. You have a lot of options, used and new.

 

You could even go barebones with something like a Yamaha P105 and get separate control surface or try it without and do more setup control inside the computer. There are a 1000 ways to skin this cat. A firmer action will give you more control over softer dynamics but that is a piano technique thing. Casio may be great fit if you can like the action.

 

FWIW whenever I get anything new (except the MP8-II) I hate it for a week or two.

 

I think something with a Yamaha balance action might feel good. Have not played the Roland A88.

[Dana.]

Kawai ES100

[miden]

Both lean toward the heavier side. MP6 has way better controller functionality ( without buying more doo-dads). If you aren't pianist looking to get the most out of your virtual soft pianos. You have a lot of options, used and new.

 

You could even go barebones with something like a Yamaha P155 and get separate control surface or try it without and do more setup control inside the computer. There are a 1000 ways to skin this cat. A firmer action will give you more control over softer dynamics but that is a piano technique thing. Casio may be great fit if you can like the action.

 

FWIW whenever I get anything new (except the MP8-II) I hate it for a week or two.

 

I think something with a Yamaha balance action might feel good. Have not played the Roland A88.

 

FWIW, I played the MOXF8 (has the Yammie balanced - their lower grade keybed) and the FA-08. The Roland was, by a good margin imo, way ahead in playability. The Yammie had a slow key recovery and was pretty awful at fast repeat notes (viz Apache et al). The Roland was acceptable, but for actions I tend to agree with D-Bon (wow can't believe I said that ) in seriously looking at Kawai. I have onyl played them in stores as I have never had the funds to buy one. But they are VERRY nice to play

[Dana.]

but for actions I tend to agree with D-Bon (wow can't believe I said that )

Oh, come on, are you really that surprised that I'm right most of the time?

[timwat]

but for actions I tend to agree with D-Bon (wow can't believe I said that )

Oh, come on, are you really that surprised that I'm right most all of the time?

 

Fixed. No reason to be needlessly humble.

[CEB]

Have not played MOXF8 a lot but I play the S90xs and I can play Rach's Prelude in G# minor on it. That is my key return test. They may be different balanced actions though.

 

Yes Kawai kicks total ass.

[miden]

but for actions I tend to agree with D-Bon (wow can't believe I said that )

Oh, come on, are you really that surprised that I'm right most of the time?

 

[Dana.]

Fixed. No reason to be needlessly humble.

True.

[Dana.]

Have not played MOXF8 a lot but I play the S90xs and I can play Rach's Prelude in G# minor on it. That is my key return test. They may be different balanced actions though.

Yes, S90XS is balanced GH; MOXF8 is GHS.

[GovernorSilver]

Kawai ES100

 

I gotta check this out! And there's a fall rebate program going on too.

[CEB]

Have not played MOXF8 a lot but I play the S90xs and I can play Rach's Prelude in G# minor on it. That is my key return test. They may be different balanced actions though.

Yes, S90XS is balanced GH; MOXF8 is GHS.

 

Good Miden had me confused which is not hard to do.

[Stokely]

Have not played MOXF8 a lot but I play the S90xs and I can play Rach's Prelude in G# minor on it. That is my key return test. They may be different balanced actions though.

Yes, S90XS is balanced GH; MOXF8 is GHS.

 

Big difference in feel between those two boards. I much prefer the S90XS. I hadn't really considered why, perhaps it is the slower return on the Mox. Not sure how either compares to the CP5/CP4, no store around me seems to have them...and I've never seen any kind of Kawai stage board here in Orlando (unfortunately. as I'd love to try them.)

[miden]

Sorry for the confusion...yeah the BH (Balanced Hammer) is on the top of the line Yammie boards - Motif XS/XF S90/S70 XS and the GH (Graded Hammer) is on all their lower end keybeds.

[Dana.]

Sorry for the confusion...yeah the BH (Balanced Hammer) is on the top of the line Yammie boards - Motif XS/XF S90/S70 XS and the GH (Graded Hammer) is on all their lower end keybeds.

No, the GHS is in the lower tier boards (MOXF8, MM8, P105, P35). GH is in the CP40, CP33, CP50, P155, etc.

[stillplaying]

Also I strongly recommend the RME interfaces. ... You can drop 'em down a flight of stairs and they don't seem to mind. (Don't ask.)

 

I won't ask but you made me laugh.

[Markay]

CEB, which pedal do you use for half pedalling?

 

Gets tricky with single 'do it all' controllers. With the Axiom the sustain input is on/off, you need to plug a half pedal into into the expression input which supports TRS - and map it to cc64. However then you lose the expression pedal option, critical for use with VB3 for example.

 

With 2 controllers, one being a dedicated 88 AP, provided it supports expression or TRS sustain it would not be an issue.

 

Half pedaling is the damper or sustain pedaling. FWIW the Casio does not do half pedaling out of the box however the Kool Aid crew will explain how it can if you buy some 3rd party add-ons to make it do what it won't do.

 

Yep get that, point was that while most midi controllers do not support half pedalling, the sustain input in these is purely an on off switch, it is possible to use a half pedal such as the Roland DP10 by inserting it into the controllers expression input and remapping expression to sustain in MainStage/Logic. And yes the fact that PX-5S does not support expression or half pedalling or have 9 faders is the reason I don't have one. So close and yet so far from being the perfect controller.

[Dave Weiser]

 

At the risk of inciting a legion of pitchfork wielding forumites....

 

Not once have I ever been asked for "half damper" functionality in a professional setting. No Broadway music director, no major touring act, no major label recording project, no symphony orchestra, no TV/film project. As we say in Boston, nevah.

 

The only places I seem to encounter "half damper" are company websites and online forums.

 

Having said that I do think it's a neat little feature, and I personally enjoy having it when I noodle around in my studio.

When I consult for keyboard manufacturers these days I do recommend including it since a large segment of customers have been thoroughly convinced that they cannot live without it.

 

Where I *do* think I would see some professional demand for it - solo concert/recital pianists. But alas most of them are using the real thing.

 

Just a little perspective.

 

[Ducking on my way out...]

 

[DulceLabs.com]

At the risk of inciting a legion of pitchfork wielding forumites....

 

[Ducking on my way out...]

 

Exactly what kind of savages do you take use for?????

 

Oh, yeah. Right.

[Markay]

Aww shucks Dave wouldn't be nice to have the unreal thing as close to the real thing as is possible?

 

Besides Pianoteq feeds my insecurity by telling me I only have a on/off switch and not a proper progressive damper.

 

Should I call the date off or push on with my usual all or nothing play?

[Jasonbass32]

Anyone have any experience with the kirzweil sp4-8.

[Jasonbass32]

Kurzweil.

[CEB]

I record solo piano works with soft pianos pedaling is important. But if one only does lower musical art forms such as rock or blues or jazz or R&B etc... then it doesn't matter because the subtleness is lost on such stuff.

[mate stubb]

But if one only does lower musical art forms such as rock or blues or jazz or R&B etc... then it doesn't because the subtleness is lost on such stuff.

 

Oh no he didn't!

 

 

http://blog.unitrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/torches-and-pitchforks.jpg

[DulceLabs.com]

I record solo piano works with soft pianos pedaling is important. But if one only does lower musical art forms such as rock or blues or jazz or R&B etc... then it doesn't because the subtleness is lost on such stuff.

 

Well to be fair, the sound of the elevator or dentist drill usually drowns out the softer passages anyway, so.......

[CEB]

I was channeling one of my old piano professors. Oh my God when he found out I financed my education by playing in a pre British invasion Classic Wax Rock 'N' Roll review show (Think Sha Na Na ) I never heard the end of it.

 

When I was a teenager my teacher studied under the same teacher as Roger. He was always talking about how much potential Roger had and it was a terrible shame it was wasted on that Rock music Head East did. LOL!

 

What I say in good fun ... Those guys meant it. Dr Wehrmann was cool. She even liked Deep Purple.

[CEB]

But if one only does lower musical art forms such as rock or blues or jazz or R&B etc... then it doesn't because the subtleness is lost on such stuff.

 

Oh no he didn't!

 

 

http://blog.unitrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/torches-and-pitchforks.jpg