Where's the grunge in the 3300?

[Dlrshort]

Lately I cannot get any overdrive of any significance out of the 3300. The tube is lit but as you increase the drive it doesn't get any brighter --is it supposed to? Also can someone tell me which tubes you are using to get the best quality overdrive. Thanks

[Dglavko]

As Jim Alredson suggests elsewhere replace the tube with a NOS.

 

Speakeasy AMA also helps though I think the consensus is somewhat redundant with the Mojo/Numa.

 

It is a clean sound without though I personally don't think that's necessarilly a bad thing...

[Steve Nathan]

New Sensor used to (and may still) have a ton of Czech (not Russian) Svetlana 6550s. I stockpiled a few sets myself some time ago. I love their ability to grunge without smear. I can make my Leslies sound like wood chips are flying out in all directions, while still being able to hear low notes clearly.

To be honest though, I don't know the 3300s at all, so this advice only applies if they also use 6550s.

[mate stubb]

The AMA is my secret weapon, both recording and live. I don't always take it as I also have a Mojo and a Vent, but when I do, it's clearly superior.

[Doerfler]

The AMA is my secret weapon, both recording and live. I don't always take it as I also have a Mojo and a Vent, but when I do, it's clearly superior.

 

RIP Steve Hayes. He sure knew what he was doing with that particular piece of gear.

[Jim Alfredson]

Lately I cannot get any overdrive of any significance out of the 3300. The tube is lit but as you increase the drive it doesn't get any brighter --is it supposed to? Also can someone tell me which tubes you are using to get the best quality overdrive. Thanks

 

What is your source?

 

With the stock tube, you should be able to get a ton of grunge... too much and too harsh, which is why I suggest swapping the 12AX7 with a 12AT7 (lower gain).

[Six-string-man]

OT: Loving the new avatar Jim!

 

 

SSM

[Analogaddict]

I use an AU7, sounds great. The AMA is wonderful and the german Organ Drive pedal is also very nice..!

[Tobias Åslund]

I use a NOS Philips 12AT7 in mine - sounds great!

[CEB]

How much distortion do you want. Is there a particular sound you want to copy? Most of us swap tubes in order to decrease the dirt. I went to an AU7. I don't know which one. It was what my amp guru suggested. It sounds fine to me.

[Delaware Dave]

I went through this with my MS Pro 3T. I think the one that sounded about right to me was a JAN5751. I tried the 12AX7, 12AX7EH and a 12AU7 as well but I think the Jan may have been the one I ended up going with, with the 12AX7EH a close 2nd.

[B3Nut]

New Sensor used to (and may still) have a ton of Czech (not Russian) Svetlana 6550s. I stockpiled a few sets myself some time ago. I love their ability to grunge without smear. I can make my Leslies sound like wood chips are flying out in all directions, while still being able to hear low notes clearly.

To be honest though, I don't know the 3300s at all, so this advice only applies if they also use 6550s.

 

The 3300 has a single 12AX7 tube in the overdrive stage...all solid-state otherwise. 220W to the woofer, 80W to the horn. They can honk. :-)

 

Svetlana was always a Russian brand. There is a difference, however, between the old Svetlana Electron Devices tubes (now known as Winged-C) from St. Petersburg and current tubes branded "Svetlana" in the US which are marketed by New Sensor and made in the Reflektor plant in Saratov (owned by Mike Matthews of New Sensor) from whence comes Sovtek, EH, reissue Tung-Sol, reissue Gold Lion, etc. The SED/Winged-C 6550 is a superb tube, sadly it is no longer made as SED has exited the consumer audio tube business. A lot of us were saddened by this as this is a splendid 6550, as you have found. I have been impressed, however, by both the reissue Tung-Sol and the Electro-Harmonix 6550EH, not quite as robust-sounding as the Winged-C (which is very close to the old GE 6550A) but still solid.

 

I don't know offhand of a current Czech tube plant (edit: there is KR Audio, but they're a high-end hi-fi niche player), there is JJ in the Slovak Republic...their octal tubes have reportedly been a mixed bag but their EL84 is solid and sounds good. I have not tried their 6550 or KT88 in a Leslie amplifier, but I likely will at some point given the current geopolitical atmosphere...not to mention the price of NOS GE and (gulp) Tung-Sol...I don't have any firstborns I can sell.

 

TP

[Dlrshort]

Lately I cannot get any overdrive of any significance out of the 3300. The tube is lit but as you increase the drive it doesn't get any brighter --is it supposed to? Also can someone tell me which tubes you are using to get the best quality overdrive. Thanks

 

What is your source?

 

With the stock tube, you should be able to get a ton of grunge... too much and too harsh, which is why I suggest swapping the 12AX7 with a 12AT7 (lower gain).

 

Using the Sk2. And when I say I get no over drive I am not exaggerating!! I believe I am using the 12aT7. It lights but does not brighten when gain is adjusted. Possible there is a circuit problem? Otherwise sounds fine. I have read Jim's posts and articles about tube replacement.

 

[JMcS]

The tube will not change brightness with changes in the gain. Where do you have the tube mode and tube drive knobs set? If you hold a note and turn the drive knob up does the volume change?

[Steve Nathan]

Svetlana was always a Russian brand. There is a difference, however, between the old Svetlana Electron Devices tubes (now known as Winged-C) from St. Petersburg and current tubes branded "Svetlana" in the US which are marketed by New Sensor and made in the Reflektor plant in Saratov (owned by Mike Matthews of New Sensor) from whence comes Sovtek, EH, reissue Tung-Sol, reissue Gold Lion, etc. The SED/Winged-C 6550 is a superb tube, sadly it is no longer made as SED has exited the consumer audio tube business. A lot of us were saddened by this as this is a splendid 6550, as you have found. I have been impressed, however, by both the reissue Tung-Sol and the Electro-Harmonix 6550EH, not quite as robust-sounding as the Winged-C (which is very close to the old GE 6550A) but still solid.

 

I don't know offhand of a current Czech tube plant (edit: there is KR Audio, but they're a high-end hi-fi niche player), there is JJ in the Slovak Republic...their octal tubes have reportedly been a mixed bag but their EL84 is solid and sounds good. I have not tried their 6550 or KT88 in a Leslie amplifier, but I likely will at some point given the current geopolitical atmosphere...not to mention the price of NOS GE and (gulp) Tung-Sol...I don't have any firstborns I can sell. grin

 

B3nut: I bow to your superior knowledge of the subject. My recollection was that back in the early 90s (when I first met Mike), he was importing the Svets from a Czech company. I was unaware that this company was having them built by the Russian company you refer to. Then later, as you've indicated, the Czech company stopped selling these particular tubes, and Mike began making/importing them himself, directly from Russia. My point was that if you could find the old ones, they were considerably superior (we do agree on that ) . Even after Mike could no longer get the old ones, he still had a lot of stock for some time. I assume from your post, that is not the case anymore.

[B3Nut]

Yup, the stock of Winged-C 6550C's seems to have pretty much dried up. It appears thetubestore.com has some stock left, so if you want some Winged-C 6550C's, you might get lucky. tubesandmore.com looks to have them too. $99/each at both. Used to be able to get matched pairs for that...

 

TP

 

 

[Jim Alfredson]

Lately I cannot get any overdrive of any significance out of the 3300. The tube is lit but as you increase the drive it doesn't get any brighter --is it supposed to? Also can someone tell me which tubes you are using to get the best quality overdrive. Thanks

 

What is your source?

 

With the stock tube, you should be able to get a ton of grunge... too much and too harsh, which is why I suggest swapping the 12AX7 with a 12AT7 (lower gain).

 

Using the Sk2. And when I say I get no over drive I am not exaggerating!! I believe I am using the 12aT7. It lights but does not brighten when gain is adjusted. Possible there is a circuit problem? Otherwise sounds fine. I have read Jim's posts and articles about tube replacement.

 

The lights are just for aesthetics. They don't do anything.

 

Where is the master volume pot on the SK2 set? How about the two tube knobs on the 3300?

[Dlrshort]

Lately I cannot get any overdrive of any significance out of the 3300. The tube is lit but as you increase the drive it doesn't get any brighter --is it supposed to? Also can someone tell me which tubes you are using to get the best quality overdrive. Thanks

 

What is your source?

 

With the stock tube, you should be able to get a ton of grunge... too much and too harsh, which is why I suggest swapping the 12AX7 with a 12AT7 (lower gain).

 

Using the Sk2. And when I say I get no over drive I am not exaggerating!! I believe I am using the 12aT7. It lights but does not brighten when gain is adjusted. Possible there is a circuit problem? Otherwise sounds fine. I have read Jim's posts and articles about tube replacement.

 

The lights are just for aesthetics. They don't do anything.

 

Where is the master volume pot on the SK2 set? How about the two tube knobs on the 3300?

 

Ihave tried all different settings on both the 3300 and sk2. A question: could it have something to do with volume petal on the sk2. Doesn't seem to be calibrated right. Wen pedal is totally undepressed organ still sounds never goes completely off.

[CEB]

...When pedal is totally undepressed organ still sounds never goes completely off.

 

That is correct. That is how a Hammond organ is supposed to work.

 

Are you using a Hammond expression pedal? I suppose something with a different pot value maybe doing something weird with the expression curve.

 

I like to run the XK3c really hot into the leslie and back it off with the swell pedal.

 

Are you using a 8 pin Leslie socket? If so are using the Hammond 8 pin cable or did you get some sort of 8 pin computer cable that may or may not be intended to pass audio? (I don't know anything just brainstorming.) If so maybe try using a 1/4 instrument cable and see if your tone improves. Swapping cables is worth a try if you having tried it.

 

 

[JMcS]

Ihave tried all different settings on both the 3300 and sk2. A question: could it have something to do with volume petal on the sk2. Doesn't seem to be calibrated right. Wen pedal is totally undepressed organ still sounds never goes completely off.

 

This is the way a Hammond traditionally works. The Expression can be set to go completely silent if you desire. The settings are on pg. 79 #'s 4 - 10. Also the Expression pedal can be tied to the SK's overdrive level as well (Pg. 92 #2).

 

To get back to the 3300, along with my earlier questions, if you turn the mode knob fully clockwise and start with the drive knob at minimum do you hear any change in the sound as you hold some notes and turn the drive knob up?

[Dlrshort]

I don't have my rig here with me presently I will try this weekend and get back to you. I appreciate all the info on the expression pedal. I do have a question however is the overdrive setting that you referenced on page 92 the internal SK overdrive or is it generating overdrive from an external Leslie?

[Dlrshort]

...When pedal is totally undepressed organ still sounds never goes completely off.

 

That is correct. That is how a Hammond organ is supposed to work.

 

Are you using a Hammond expression pedal? I suppose something with a different pot value maybe doing something weird with the expression curve.

 

I like to run the XK3c really hot into the leslie and back it off with the swell pedal.

 

Are you using a 8 pin Leslie socket? If so are using the Hammond 8 pin cable or did you get some sort of 8 pin computer cable that may or may not be intended to pass audio? (I don't know anything just brainstorming.) If so maybe try using a 1/4 instrument cable and see if your tone improves. Swapping cables is worth a try if you having tried it.

 

I am using an eight pin Hammond connector and and aHammond expression pedal

[Steve Nathan]

Yup, the stock of Winged-C 6550C's seems to have pretty much dried up. frown It appears thetubestore.com has some stock left, so if you want some Winged-C 6550C's, you might get lucky. tubesandmore.com looks to have them too. $99/each at both. Used to be able to get matched pairs for that...

 

TP

 

I only have 4 of them (maybe 6, I'll have to check my cases). I know there's matched sets in each of my Leslies. I appreciate you're hipping me to the other sources. Do you have a preference. I'd like to have at least one more set as backup.

[JMcS]

I don't have my rig here with me presently I will try this weekend and get back to you. I appreciate all the info on the expression pedal. I do have a question however is the overdrive setting that you referenced on page 92 the internal SK overdrive or is it generating overdrive from an external Leslie?

 

That setting controls the SK's built in overdrive. However to the extent that increasing the SK's overdrive increases the overall volume a little more than just the expression increase it would also increase the amount of distortion produced by the 3300 as well. It may take a little fine tuning of the SK's master volume level along with the drive control of the 3300 and the desired amount and characteristic of the overdrive (Mode knob). Page 10 of the 3300 manual describes a procedure for dialing the instrument/Leslie in so that the 3300's overdrive starts at the point in the expression pedal's travel that you want and increases from there. Don't overload the input by cranking the SK's volume up. The volume control on the 3300 has nothing to do with the overdrive so you don't have to have it get loud to have a lot of overdrive. If you have to crank the 3300's volume up high to have it be loud in a home environment (assuming that is where you will be tweaking it) the input signal may be too low.

[B3Nut]

Yup, the stock of Winged-C 6550C's seems to have pretty much dried up. frown It appears thetubestore.com has some stock left, so if you want some Winged-C 6550C's, you might get lucky. tubesandmore.com looks to have them too. $99/each at both. Used to be able to get matched pairs for that...

 

TP

 

I only have 4 of them (maybe 6, I'll have to check my cases). I know there's matched sets in each of my Leslies. I appreciate you're hipping me to the other sources. Do you have a preference. I'd like to have at least one more set as backup.

 

Either of those two should be fine. Both have a good rep. Tube Depot is a good supplier too, but they're out of Winged C tubes.

 

TP