Saint Johnny B Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Or, I suppose all the pro mix and edit jobs could rush to India. In addition, what if all the tech leaves the US and some foregin country decides to quit supplying components for our planes etc? Where are the flag wavers now? Are US corporations traitors? Bush is owned by the very special interests that are doing massive harm to America. Don't look to Bush for anything effective, except more lies, spin, and sound bites. But if you lose your job, your house, your family, then you must look to the top, the guys who helped open the flood gates and sent all the jobs on a one-way ride to India or China. Corporate Reform Laws coming from Bush? Not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylen Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Or, I suppose all the pro mix and edit jobs could rush to India. He He - this could happen over time. Given where we currently are in the 'model' though it would be more likely (and interesting?) if American written songs were to be recorded in offshore studios by musicians local to that area. What a wild recording that would make (Chuck Berry meets micro-tonal) ! Of course American musicians and studios would have to diversify a bit to make up for the loss of revenue. Just a matter of time I reckon ! Hold on to your hat. I wonder if the soup was supposed to stay 'Alphabet' forever or over time morph into 'Split Pea' or whatever. I think I'll ask if I ever find myself in a position to... kylen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Johnny B Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 It's already happening to the mvie industry, lots of stuff now being done over seas to make Americans lose their jobs. And we know how much loyalty the record companies have to Americans and how much humanity they have shown to their artists. Corporate Law Reform? Before it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Originally posted by Johnny B: It's already happening to the mvie industry, lots of stuff now being done over seas to make Americans lose their jobs."lots of stuff" is not being done overseas to make Americans lose their jobs, it's being done overseas because it's cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.WOW Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 UNIONS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Johnny B Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Wow, you really ought to get off your duff and read some history. You may learn that many Americans have benefited from Union Initatives. Just one example, corporations were exploiting Child Labor in America until the Unions got Child Labor Laws passed. But maybe you'd like to go backwards to the bad old days and condemm 7-year-old children to working for 25 cents a day in coal mines. Or maybe you like the idea of working 16 hours a day for the same or less pay than you get now. pensions, heatlh care, and many other things Americans take for granted all stem from Union Initatives. When you do decide to get off your duff and read some Union history books, make sure you look carefully at the pictures, look into the eyes of all those children. Those little childrens' eyes tell the whole story. An ugly story of exploitation and forced poverty, only so a few rich corporate robber barons could get richer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.WOW Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Wow, you really ought to get off your duff and read some history. You may learn that many Americans have benefited from Union Initatives. Just one example, corporations were exploiting Child Labor in America until the Unions got Child Labor Laws passed. But maybe you'd like to go backwards to the bad old days and condemm 7-year-old children to working for 25 cents a day in coal mines You have made my point for me. There once was a time when unions were needed to point out such stuff, but we now have 24/7 news coverage on 10 channels and ANYBODY with a story can get airtime. Unions are the problem, they had their day, and now they are running jobs OUT of the US very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Johnny B Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Wow as usu you Wrong. It's the corporations who are the traitors to America. The very same traitors who are in bed with Bait and Switch Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.WOW Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Got ya AGAIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1970 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I hope that under Bush all producers will be from China, maybe they still don't know what is a loudness war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I agree with all of you. You all need to vote "TOGA PARTY". "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggus Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Hmmm. I tend to agree w/ Wow on this one. Johnny B, you are right that unions DID help correct some of the most despicable behavior on the part of industrialists in the 19th century. A very positive thing. But... Unions tend to get a bit too persnickity for my tastes these days. I'll give you 2 examples I know of first hand (one involves my employer) 1. 70-80% of my employer's workforce is unionize, they are Teamsters. They currently are negotiating a new contract w/ management. The job skills required by people working this job are not that far beyond someone working at McDonalds in some cases (I'm not exagerrating this). Yet some of these guys, with enough seniority and overtime, make in excess of 80,000 per year, with a defined benefit pension, excellent medical, vacation-- you get the idea. And they're bitching over the fact that they MAY have to take on a small co-pay of about 15$ per pay for their medical (which, by the way, we as management employees may also have to take on, and I would GLADLY take on for the level of coverage I get). 2. About 2 years ago, Hershey Chocolate endured a strike by their Chocolate Workers for about a 7-8 week period. Again, basically over health coverage and co-pays. I know several union employees who work for Hershey. An overwhelming majority DID NOT want to strike. Yet, they were fed a cock and bull story by their union leadership. In the end, the union agreed to a contract that was WORSE than the original contract proposed BEFORE the strike. Now, many of these chocolate workers are losing their jobs because management, being so disgusted with the union, is relocating their jobs to other facilities. And the only people hurt are the union employees supposedly protected by the union in the first place, who DID NOT WANT TO STRIKE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Unions must exist, don't get me wrong. However, there needs to be a bit of common sense exercised by these institutions, it seems. Biggus "You can't enjoy yourself unless you're having fun." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Johnny B Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Wow, 24/7 news coverage does not replace the function of a good union. Unions, like any other organization is what the members make it, that takes constant vigilance and members staying active and particpating to make sure the organization acts responsibly and remains accountable to the voters. I do no agree that Unions are no longer relevant as abuse of workers continues as a worlwide problem. I would suggest people rent the movie "Rodger and Me." It forecasts, to some degree, Bush's policy of exporting jobs for his coproate buddies to max out the bottom line. And in big corps., perhaps mid-management does not always fair well, since they have no union, but those white-collar and back office jobs are also part of Bush's massive migration of jobs. You know, the top executives in corps, always seem to find a way to justify exhorbitant salaries no matter what is going on with a company or the country. Like the guy who was the head of the stock exchange, I believe he was getting 24 million dollars a year to smooze, play golf, and go to parties at night. The question here, in this thread, is whether we will see a mass exodus of recording, mix and editing jobs to China and India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Originally posted by Johnny B: It's already happening to the mvie industry, lots of stuff now being done over seas to make Americans lose their jobs.That is such nonsense. As far as Audio Post, a very small percentage is done outside of the US. And as far as shooting, well, sometimes the california desert or the Streets of LA just don't suffice. And it depends on the budget as well. The whole "other countries are stealing our movies" thing is blown completely out of proportion. Furthermore, since when was having all the music work a right only for california. IMDB Credit list President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Originally posted by Johnny B: the function of a good union. Unforunately most Union's are as bad as the greedy coprations these days.And forget movies,when large coperations announce their moving operations overseas or to Mexico, they are leaving people without jobs,plain and simple.I remember when Green Giant(canned veggies)announced they were relocating to Mexico, they were nice enough to offer thousands of their employees to relocate.:rolleyes:You can also point the finger at NAFTRA(indirectly in a different way) as well here, which both Clinton and Bush SR pushed hard for.I don't entirely put the blame on the current administration here,but you can rag on them for help pushing the issue in the wrong direction entirely which is what they want.They want the systematic iradication of the middle class.Cheap consumer goods,and cheap labor to produce and buy it,whatever that takes. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Johnny B Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Yeah, I was pissed when Clinton signed NAFTA. Ross Perot was right on these lack of Fair Trade Issues. I loved his charts and graphs and his phrase "I hear a Giant Sucking Sound" meaning all the life and jobs will be sucked out of America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudonym Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Here's even better News! War With China Charles R. Smith Friday, Nov. 21, 2003 Battleground America China has declared a global war. China has openly named its foes, warning them to come into line or face terrible retribution. The actual threat of force is aimed not just at Taiwan but also at its two largest supporters, Japan and the United States. Yet Beijing's growing war machine will not encourage a policy change in Tokyo or Washington except toward more defense spending. The last similar threat was made by the second in command of the PLA itself. Gen. Xiong Guangkai told Western reporters that China was prepared to vaporize Los Angeles if the U.S. backed Taiwan. The full story here WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Leites Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 This has nothing to do with Bush or any other US leader. Advances in technology have made it possible to send all this work to the lowest wage earner where ever they are. I think in the future, if you don't have a job that requires your physical presents on site here, you're going to be out of luck. I'm just glad I'm getting closer to retirement. My Web Site - Tunes - Pictures - Guitar Projects - Native American Style Flute Projects - Hard Rock Cafe Guitar Pins My Eclectic YouTube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegrijak Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Originally posted by WOW: Wow, you really ought to get off your duff and read some history. You may learn that many Americans have benefited from Union Initatives. Just one example, corporations were exploiting Child Labor in America until the Unions got Child Labor Laws passed. But maybe you'd like to go backwards to the bad old days and condemm 7-year-old children to working for 25 cents a day in coal mines You have made my point for me. There once was a time when unions were needed to point out such stuff, but we now have 24/7 news coverage on 10 channels and ANYBODY with a story can get airtime. Unions are the problem, they had their day, and now they are running jobs OUT of the US very fast. Now let me tally up a good union betrayal story that JUST HAPPENED here in Detroit: Farmer Jack, a major Grocery Chain that is owned by Atlantic & Pacific Tea Company has about 130 stores here in Detroit and were losing money badly because the overhead in the stores is way out of whack; Cashiers were making about $15 an hour and baggers-- stock and baggers mind you-- were pulling about $13 an hour! Farmer Jack went to the union and said look, either we get a 5% wage consession across the board or we are going to fold up by the first of 2004 (this was back in Oct 2003) So union had membership take a vote and the vote passed. Now everything is fine right? Wrong! Out of 15 stores that Farmer Jack has in the city limits, they are closing 13 down and reopening them in April or May as Food Basic Stores with a VERY limited selection of the most popular items, no shopping carts, no deli, no fresh cut meats (packaged only) and NO SHOPPING BAGS! You have to bring your own or BUY thiers! Best part of this story is, ALL former Farmer Jack Employees can retain thier positions in this new company AND retain thier union membership, isn't that great? Oh, one small thing, they will ALL be making $7 an hour under the "new" contract! Aren't unions wonderful? unions are nothing but self-serving parasites that feed off of fear and deceive and manipulate in order to keep the "dues" flowing in, just like ANY OTHER FORM OF COLLECTIVE!!! WAKE UP LIBERALS!! THE GREAT SOCIETY IS A LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!! This way, no, wait, that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.WOW Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Aren't unions wonderful? unions are nothing but self-serving parasites that feed off of fear and deceive and manipulate in order to keep the "dues" flowing in, just like ANY OTHER FORM OF COLLECTIVE!!! WAKE UP LIBERALS!! THE GREAT SOCIETY IS A LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Johnny B Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Uh, so it was not management's plan to cut the pay back? I suggest you see the movie "Rodger and Me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Johnny B Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Re: The China post above. Gee, if American companies are exporting jobs to China, and China is threatening to vaporize LA, then are not the corporations and China both classed as terrorists under the Patriot Act? Seems to me that exporting all of America's wealth to India and China, both have Nukes you know, America is sowing the seeds of its own destruction. We need to change the Bush Regime's Policy, and we can start by sending a message and throwing Bush out of office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.WOW Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Another reason the wages must be so high in America is that "mr. middle class" must pay a large sum of his total income to the government. This, in turn, is passed along to the employer. High taxes and Unions are running jobs out of the US. I hope enough people figure this out before it is to late. Something MUST give, and I will be American jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegrijak Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Originally posted by Johnny B: Uh, so it was not management's plan to cut the pay back? I suggest you see the movie "Rodger and Me."My point is, Johnny why aren't the unions standing firm on the $15 an hour wage in this "new" company? It is because they don't really give a rats ass about the employees! All they care about is making sure the "dues" keep flowing in uninterupted! They don't care what wage you are getting! Ever spec out what the top union thug bosses are making a year? What about all those "admin" workers in the union locals? They are ALL paid from union "dues"! I will NEVER, NEVER, EVER bow down to a union for my paycheck; I would rather sleep on a street grate! I have made it just fine for 39 years without the unions help, I can go the rest of the way thank you! This way, no, wait, that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Johnny B Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Gee, it's really interesting how Wow can neglect to look at the big picture. According to Wow's thinking, "Mr Middle Class" is the cause of all of America's problems. Lemme say this so you can hear it: MR WOW YOU ARE MORON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Johnny B Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Re" Union not standing up for the workers. If that's true, then the membership should throw the leaders out. But I have to disagree with your claim that the leadership only cares about dues flowing in, at least it's not true in ALL cases. Here, if that was the leaders only motive, it would not make sense for them to take a 50 percent cut is dues. I would suggest you gather some more facts becuase I know management can play all kinds of games and has a lot of legal tricks to use in their arsenal. Again, you may want to rent the movie "Roger and Me." It's a good movie, often sad, yet sometimes funny. If America does not act quickly to correct the "deficits," and the Bush Policy to run them up into the red planet, Mars, we will soon be facing very real National Security Issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.WOW Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 MR WOW YOU ARE MORON Least I can spell loser, ya LOSER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Johnny B Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Thanks for sharing, Mr. Moron. BTW, how many jobs did Bush and Cheney ship overseas today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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