Nord Piano 2 HP 73

[Michelle ggurl]

NP2 HP. That's the 73-key one, right? I figured they were the same, NP 2 HP73 and NE4 HP73?

[Jazzwee]

Yes I hope they are the same, or I'm out a lot of money. LOL.

 

I never really paid much attention to the importance of 88 keys until I watched myself do walking bass. I guess if you're going to do LH bass, you'll need 88.

 

There are differences though between the two to consider. NP2 has more memory (500mb vs 380mb), layers, and an LED display. I just noticed that the NE4 does not.

 

Interesting too that the two HP models are pretty similar in price. It's basically organ vs. more memory/layers.

[Michelle ggurl]

Interesting too that the two HP models are pretty similar in price. It's basically organ vs. more memory/layers.

 

Yeah, OK, that's what I thought.

[Jazzwee]

Got the Electro 4 HP and been playing with it for a couple of hours.

 

I'm getting it set for a gig tonight. I'll probably have more to say later after I use it live but in summary, I'm quite impressed with the HP.

 

Since I have the NP1 right next to it, I can compare the two. Definitely the NP1 keybed is lighter. However, the velocity handling is completely different so it threw me off. The default velocity on the Electro for piano requires a tad more force. So combined with the difference in keybed gives me more control.

 

Some of this velocity handling may also be in the NP2 I suppose but this comparison is with the NP1.

 

There is a gradual buildup on the resistance as you go down on the Electro HP. For gentler playing, you actually feel that as escapement (though there is no click).

 

The very first quarter of the throw seems to be equally light on both so organ playing seems to be ok. No need to push down. Much better to me than the SemiWeighted which makes me feel like I have to fight that spring pushback.

 

The change in velocity handling seems to change how the pianos sound. Some of the harshness in the upper registers seem reduced. This improves the sound quite a bit.

 

The original loaded sound was Concert2, Lady D, and Bright Grand. When I listened to them briefly, they sounded better than what I was used to. But I changed it back to the ones I will use at the gig tonight and tomorrow -- Concert1 and Italian Grand.

 

The added weight helps me control my LH more since I can feel when I'm approaching bottom. The NP1 is very even from top to bottom of the throw so there's no way to gauge other than distance. (And throw is the same on both).

 

Clearly, the geometry of the action is completely different between the TP100 and TP40. I need to spend more time with it to describe it.

 

Glad to have organ! Set the split points for my gig and I'll worry about it later. Got an FC7 as a swell pedal. I don't know much about organ yet so i just set some general drawbar settings for each split.

 

What I'm missing for my gig is some electric guitar sample (for Santana). Too bad there's no default one for that.

 

Anyway, will report back later.

[Jazzwee]

A few more comments to add to this so the info is complete.

 

Earlier I made a comment about the Keyboard Touch setting where 3 was the heaviest. Although this was true of the NP2 HP, it is not the case for NE4 HP.

 

The label says "Dynamics" and it transitions as expected from 0-3 with 3 being the lightest.

 

Having played piano on it for two gigs now, plus practice time, this will be fine for my needs. I have it actually set for the lightest keyboard touch (3) because I got so used to the lighter NP 88.

 

I thought I would have more tired hands after hours of playing but typically I've found that heavier key weights has the opposite effect.

 

There is a very loud noise on the key return. Much louder than the NP88. They should have put some felt in there to limit that. You can't hear the key return noise on a gig but there's a vibration from it and it is OFF TIME so it's a little irritating. It's more noticeable in practice though so I'm not going to worry about it.

 

So in conclusion, this is a vote of confidence for the HP keybed for piano.

 

However, for organ use (since I bought an NE4 HP), this is still unclear. I may have to learn a new technique to play in a very shallow manner.

 

 

[ITGITC]

Thank you for your review, Jazzwee!

 

I find that when playing organ on my NE3HP the key bounce makes the note retrigger when set to the shallowest setting. As you wrote, perhaps a piece of felt could help this. Otherwise, I have to change to the deepest trigger... and that is disappointing.

 

Tom

 

[Jazzwee]

Thank you for your review, Jazzwee!

 

I find that when playing organ on my NE3HP the key bounce makes the note retrigger when set to the shallowest setting. As you wrote, perhaps a piece of felt could help this. Otherwise, I have to change to the deepest trigger... and that is disappointing.

 

Tom

 

Oh no! Is there a specific style of playing one has to adopt to make this work?

 

BTW the default seems to be the high trigger. Of course, I don't know enough about playing organ to experience anything so sophisticated yet.

 

Also Tom, what's the difference in the Organ between NE3 and NE4?

[ITGITC]

Also Tom, what's the difference in the Organ between NE3 and NE4?

 

Nord has improved the B3/Leslie.

 

However, I haven't played the NE4, so I don't know how different one sounds from the other.

 

 

[Jazzwee]

FYI Tom, the High-Low Trigger has no effect on HP. It's SW only. Just found this out.

 

So I'm trying to learn to just tap the HP keys only to the point of trigger and more. Otherwise, being a piano guy, I tend to dig in which is a waste of energy I guess.

[ITGITC]

 

FYI Tom, the High-Low Trigger has no effect on HP. It's SW only. Just found this out.

 

Must be different for a NE4HP, because it certainly makes a difference on my NE3HP.

[AnotherScott]

I seem to recall discussions before about the Piano and possibly Stage having better/different handling for acoustic piano patches (or simply running larger samples?) than the Electro. Is this true? I played around with the effects on both machines but it's not just the effects. The Bosendorfer in the Stage was much better than any patch I could find on the E4.

As Jazzwee said, the default piano sample set shipped with each model is different. (Even for a given model, I'm not sure they have always shipped them all the same way.) The good news is that whatever piano sound you can load into a Stage 2 can also be loaded into the NE4HP... but with less total space (380 mb vs 500), you may have to load in fewer different pianos. Also, though, the string resonance implementation in the NS2 (and NP2) is more sophisticated than what's in the NE4. So that will account for some difference of sound, but not the kind of night and day difference you described when you said "it's REALLY different. It really does not sound the same at all." It will still be very similar.

[AnotherScott]

Interesting too that the two HP models are pretty similar in price. It's basically organ vs. more memory/layers.

Right... and also interesting that the NP2-88 is also about the same price. Arguably cheaper than the NP2-HP, if you factor in the cost of the triple pedal. So in comparing the two pianos, it's basically 88 keys and higher quality action versus better portability. It's interesting that people will even pay the same money for a lesser model if it weighs 24 lbs instead of 40. I wish Kawai and Kurzweil could find a way to address that market. I'd be pretty interested in a sub-30 pound 73-key Artis or MP7.

[Jazzwee]

Is it truly correct that the HP is a lesser keybed than the 88?

 

It feels different. But it's hard to judge "better" here because each has its deficiencies.

 

The super lightness of the 88 is unrealistic for piano IMHO.

 

Granted it is much smoother because of evenness all the way to the bottom. But a real piano isn't even either. The escapement is at the bottom.

 

BTW in theory, the CP4 can eat into NP2 88 sales since the weight is close to the same.

[AnotherScott]

Is it truly correct that the HP is a lesser keybed than the 88?

Well it's certainly lesser in having 73 keys rather than 88.

 

Other than that, feel is always a matter of opinion. But most people seem to think that the Fatar TP100 does not feel as good as the TP40. And Nord excepted, it usually appears in a company's lower cost models (i.e. Kurzweil and Numa use TP100 in lower cost models, TP40 in higher cost models).

[Michelle ggurl]

Thanks for the insight, Jazzwee, and Scott. For me, 76 (or 73 -- honestly, how often do I play those extra 3 keys in a non-split, piano-only situation, anyway?) is really preferable to 88, and the bonuses in terms of transportation and schlepping are significant; with my 76er now, I can load all my gear in my car and no one would know it's there; with 88, I have to fold down a back seat and the keyboard sits lengthwise, so there is no way to hide it in a trunk/tonneau cover. I think the price similarity has to do with perceived demand; there isn't as much for these "in-between" configurations, so 76/73 keys versions are less of a value than 88 or 61, which are made and sold in greater numbers.

 

That said, I may go to an 88 if I have to. But interesting to hear about the keybed comparisons.

[Jazzwee]

Also, though, the string resonance implementation in the NS2 (and NP2) is more sophisticated than what's in the NE4. .

 

Is there some documentation on this? Does this imply that the NP1 is missing something in the string resonance as well? I have both here still. NP88 and NE4. I can compare if you tell me what I'm supposed to be listening for.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

Also, though, the string resonance implementation in the NS2 (and NP2) is more sophisticated than what's in the NE4. .

 

Is there some documentation on this?

 

Described in the sidebar at http://www.nordkeyboards.com/sound-libraries/nord-piano-library/information

 

Does this imply that the NP1 is missing something in the string resonance as well?

No, the more sophisticated ("Generation 2") string resonance is in the NP1 as well. However, the NP1 is missing the Long Release, which I actually find more noticeable, at least in a live gigging situation.

[Jazzwee]

Long release was added in an OS update on NP1. In fact, it was already available when I bought it (a little more than 2 years ago).

[AnotherScott]

Long release was added in an OS update on NP1. In fact, it was already available when I bought it (a little more than 2 years ago).

Y'know, it's funny, I thought that was the case. But then I found that page on the Nord web site, which is even a newly updated page (not the same one they've had for years) and it didn't list the original NP as compatible with that feature, so I thought I'd mis-remembered. Good to know it supports it, even though the web site doesn't say so.

[Jazzwee]

Reading the Generation 2 String Resonance, I see the difference is in sympathetic resonance and Dynamic Crescendo. I have no idea what dynamic crescendo is with respect to a real piano though.

 

 

OS Update - NP 88

 

v1.40 (2011-09-07)

Improved voice allocation by adjusting String Resonance Crescendo level and releasing "shadow" voices in pedal up and down situations.

Added support for Long Release, controlled globally with a Sound Menu setting.

Corrected display hints that for example in a MIDI Local Off situation would display the wrong piano type used.

 

BTW - I bought the NP88 in Jan. 2012. So right before the NP2 was announced.

 

[AnotherScott]

Reading the Generation 2 String Resonance, I see the difference is in sympathetic resonance and Dynamic Crescendo. I have no idea what dynamic crescendo is with respect to a real piano though.

I think it has to do with what happens when you repeatedly strike the same key with the pedal down, where the new strikes are adding to (rather than replacing) the previous excitement of the strings.

[Jazzwee]

Something I discovered while practicing organ on the NE4 HP. I can play the weighted keys with a very light touch. It's pretty effortless. Just to be sure, I keep switching between playing piano and organ and I just have to change my style.

 

It triggers organ fine and seemingly consistently and staccato or legato. At least with single notes. Now with thirds, I don't know yet.