Yamaha KX76 I Want To Buy

[russrags]

Looking to buy a Yamaha KX76 and ideas where I should look ???

I've Googled, eBayed, Craigslisted.

 

Maybe there's a vintage dealer I should contact.

 

Russ

Nashville

[Delaware Dave]

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/msg/4317769966.html

 

http://gulfport.craigslist.org/msg/4357087841.html

 

 

[russrags]

Delaware Dave, How did you do this, I've got scratchy eye balls, yikes !!!! I have looked and looked.

 

Thank You soooooo much,

 

Russ

[Synthoid]

Delaware Dave, How did you do this, I've got scratchy eye balls, yikes !!!! I have looked and looked.

 

Thank You soooooo much,

 

There will be a $20 service charge.

[Delaware Dave]

Delaware Dave, How did you do this, I've got scratchy eye balls, yikes !!!! I have looked and looked.

 

Thank You soooooo much,

 

Russ

http://www.searchcraigslist.org/

[Kenny Ingram]

Why a KX76..?

[joegerardi]

Kenny:

Because it's probably the best-feeling 76-note controller ever made. It's also built like a tank and weighs just about as much. (Not really, but they're 40 pounds or so.) And it's beautifully designed to stack another keyboard right on top of it if that's what you want to do.

 

The keybed is from the DX7 and is a joy to play on, unlike much of today's stuff. The aftertouch feels just so, also. Like an idiot, I went and sold mine a coupla' years ago. Thankfully, I didn't sell my KX88.

 

Russ:

I have seen them on eBay as late as 3 weeks ago. They are generally in the 250-300 range.

 

Also, if you need it, I have a .PDF of the manual. Just be aware that programming them can be difficult: it's all in Hexadecimal. It it relatively easy once you learn it, but there is a learning curve. I find just programming the sound sources to the zones/ranges/sounds easier and faster.

 

..Joe

[Kenny Ingram]

Joe: I'll have to trust you on the keybed feeling, because I've never played one; but if I'm going to lug around a 40 pound keyboard to a gig, I'd probably want it to have [usable] built in sounds.

PS - I love your taste in gear. Most of those are on my wish list.

[Al Coda]

Why a KX76..?

 

I own one since I buyed it new and it plays like the 1st day even I toured w/ it for more than a decade.

Before, I had the KX88 and when I exchanged the weighted board I wanted the 76 as a top board.

 

It´s a extremely fast triggering action and to me it seems to be the same you find in a DX7mkII which I also own.

Only the original DX´s keyboard action feels a bit better.

 

You can connect 2 FC7 and 2 momentary footswitches to the KX76 and it has a MIDI merge input which is a big advantage for live gigging.

There are 4 sliders, toggle switches in addition, easy layout and it´s very well build for the road.

Single-, Dual- and Split keyboard modes in a fraction of a second.

 

Only disadvantages,- you need a velocity transformer to get the full velocity scale because it goes up to v=105 at max.,- and the channel AT breaks your fingers.

 

Nonetheless, I love it because it never failed within 25 years now and it still looks pretty good because I have a very good flightcase for it.

 

A.C.

[joegerardi]

Al:

That's incorrect The KX series go to full 127 velocity. I even checked with Yamaha on that years ago and they confirmed it. It was only the original DX7 that had a velocity limit of 100- it came out in the very early days of MIDI.

 

Kenny:

Back when everyone made a rack module of their equipment, you didn't needs internal sounds. Gigging with a KX88 and KX76 on top and modules in a rack was an awesome way to have a clean stage appearance. And, after gigging with a C3 and Leslie 122 for a bunch of years, 40 pounds isn't and issue. Hell, the 63 pounds of the KX88 wasn't an issue either. I still have that today, and it doesn't particularly bother me at the creaking age of 57.

 

But feel of the keyboard is important to me- most of the controllers today IMO are only good for melting down and recycling.

 

..Joe

[Al Coda]

Al:

That's incorrect The KX series go to full 127 velocity. I even checked with Yamaha on that years ago and they confirmed it. It was only the original DX7 that had a velocity limit of 100- it came out in the very early days of MIDI.

 

I really doubt that.

My KX76 behaves exactly like my DX7mkIIFD.

I have both set up here in my room.

 

There were also some KX88s out there not delivering full velocity scale,- but later models do.

 

I was never aware about changes made to the KX76,- all I know is I have one of the very latest models.

When I buyed it new, these weren´t available in shops anymore and I got the last one in stock from Yamaha Europe.

I´m pretty sure I have latest OS/firmware.

 

A.C.

[joegerardi]

As I understand it, the DX7II also went to 127- they corrected all the MIDI issues of the original.

 

I've not checked on that, but I did check on the KX's.

[russrags]

Yea, still looking, can't get anyone to respond on Craigslist so far. Did get a phone number to try later today from a repair shop. I'll buy two of em, if I can find em. eBay hasn't turned up anything either, I was hoping in finding a dealer of vintage stuff that might have one.

 

Russ

Nashville

[NZM]

I have a Yamaha KX76 w stand and synthesizer that I can sell to you. I sent you a PM with my email for correspondence. I can send you pics.

[Al Coda]

As I understand it, the DX7II also went to 127- they corrected all the MIDI issues of the original.

 

I've not checked on that, but I did check on the KX's.

 

Late reply but I want to clear that up:

 

The DX7mkII doesn´t offer a velocity range up to 127 (128) and the KX76 doesn´t too.

The KX88 does though, but not all.

For DX7 or KX76, there were never been any eprom (OS) updates available changing that behaviour.

 

For DX7mk II and KX76 I´m using EES M3 Velocity Transformers, older but similar units like the Midisolutions box,- and/or the Miditemp PMM88E allowing processing of velocity curves by math function and per MIDI input,- there are 8 MIDI Ins on that machine.

I owned an old DX7 too so I´m pretty sure it´s the same behaviour.

 

A.C.

[NewImprov]

There was one for sale in my area a couple of months ago, I think they were asking $200. Thought very seriously about it, but then the Casio PX5s kind of fell into my lap. Just did a quick Craigslist search, and it looks like the listing was pulled.

[vonnor]

+1 for the KX76. I used one the last time I toured. Love the action and it's built like a beast. Used it to control a EPS16 Rack and a TX-802.

 

~ vonnor

[Doerfler]

+1 for the KX76. I used one the last time I toured. Love the action and it's built like a beast. Used it to control a EPS16 Rack and a TX-802.

 

~ vonnor

 

so, Vonnor, was that recently or in 1991? :idk

[Al Coda]

+1 for the KX76. I used one the last time I toured. Love the action and it's built like a beast. Used it to control a EPS16 Rack and a TX-802.

 

~ vonnor

 

The achilles heel is the front panel-membrane covering not only the (membrane-) switches.

Once there´s a crack it´s hard to stop or get rid of it.

I´d wish some company like Technology Transplant comes up w/ a replacement like they did for the MOOG Source.

 

A.C.

[dazzjazz]

I had a KX76 and I too loved the action.

I used a Yamaha MEP4 with it to do 4 way split ranges etc. Not something you can easily do on the fly but it worked well live.

 

Why is it so hard for companies to make decent actions like that one?

[Sven Golly]

Why is it so hard for companies to make decent actions like that one?

 

Because you guys would laugh Yamaha out the door if they tried to sell a 76-note controller for $1500 or more, which is what the KX retailed for at the time.

 

 

[TommyS]

Loved mine. Used it until I wore it out. Great controller.

[joegerardi]

They are still out there. Missed my old one so much I just bought one on eBay for $49.00. Sat it on top of my Kronos 88 as the start of a project to rearrange the studio to a more workable format.

 

As to the front panel cracking: an old trick is to use any hand lotion with Lanolin in it. Keeps it quite moist and supple.

 

Al:

We're going to have to agree to disagree. But if you look at page 35 of the owner's manual (freely available online) the MIDI implementation chart specifically states that the note velocity goes to 127.

 

..Joe

[vonnor]

...so, Vonnor, was that recently or in 1991?

'89 - '91

 

Sold it in '92.

[allan_evett]

Why is it so hard for companies to make decent actions like that one?

 

Because you guys would laugh Yamaha out the door if they tried to sell a 76-note controller for $1500 or more, which is what the KX retailed for at the time.

 

 

 

Considering the build quality of current controllers (several of which would be iffy, live), it seems you still get what you pay for. IIRC the Physis K5 controller - with 76 keys, and a full compliment of studio and stage control features - runs in the low to mid $2000's, USD.

[Dave Weiser]

Ah memory lane. Great keyboard.

I love the KX76.

But I feel the same way about owning one as I do about a Porsche 928 from 1985. Awesome car, but in the current market, doesn't offer enough perks vs cost/hassle to be worth my while (as a guy who does not fix cars).

 

The velocity thing will be problematic unless addressed.

You need MIDI velocity to go up 127.

 

I always caution people on buying *any* piece of gear that's 10-15 years old. With something that's 20+ years old, I would advise 1. Not paying very much, 2. make sure you have a source and a backup source for spare parts 3. make sure you have a shop or the technical chops yourself to do repairs great and small.

 

A 20+ year old board, even a really well made one, is very likely to have at least a few components go bad sometime soon. This is in addition to physical stuff like buttons and action showing wear and tear.

 

 

 

[Al Coda]

 

As to the front panel cracking: an old trick is to use any hand lotion with Lanolin in it. Keeps it quite moist and supple.

 

Good tip, thx ...

But what´s up when you already have a small crack in the membrane ?

I now have a very small one (3-5mm perhaps) at the edge of one of the membrane switches (Bank B /Prg No #6 I think), maybe caused by a fingernail.

It´s not a big issue up to now, but I think the only repair making sense is to glue something (tape ?) under the membrane.

The problem is how to remove the membrane without damaging it more.

 

Al:

We're going to have to agree to disagree. But if you look at page 35 of the owner's manual (freely available online) the MIDI implementation chart specifically states that the note velocity goes to 127.

 

Yes Joe, I owned the KX88 and still own and use the KX76 and I have 2 printed original owners manuals, 1 covering the KX88 alone and the other covering both the KX88 and KX76.

The Midi implementation chart in both the manuals tells the same,- vel. 0 -127,- but the real world result is something different.

Regardless how hard you push the keys on the KX76, you´ll get about velocity 105 at max or you break the keys and it was also extremely hard to get a value of 127 out of a KX88.

A cool test is playing TX816 patches by triggering from a KX88 and then KX76 as a comparison.

I´m 1st owner of TX816 and even a QX1 and KX-5 too.

The synth action keyboards DX7mkII, KX76 and KX-5 will never deliver velocities higher than ~105.

Yamaha manuals from the 80s were often crazy translations from japanese to english or german.

I think they are simply wrong or it was planned for the keyboards to work as described in the manual but never implemented that way.

 

And believe me, I´d been one of the happiest guys if the KX76 and DX7mkI as well the KX-5 actions would output the full velocity range.

The masterkeyboard features of the KX88/76 were 2nd row for me always.

These are limited compared to p.ex. the former Oberheim MC3000 or todays Kurzweil keyboards,- but the action alone, the ruggedness of the left-hand controller unit, the MIDI merge input and the easy on the fly split and layer functionality as well as the visual appearence on stage make the DX7II and KX series keyboards a winner for me,- when it is in good condition.

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

The velocity thing will be problematic unless addressed.

You need MIDI velocity to go up 127.

 

I always caution people on buying *any* piece of gear that's 10-15 years old. With something that's 20+ years old, I would advise 1. Not paying very much, 2. make sure you have a source and a backup source for spare parts 3. make sure you have a shop or the technical chops yourself to do repairs great and small.

 

A 20+ year old board, even a really well made one, is very likely to have at least a few components go bad sometime soon. This is in addition to physical stuff like buttons and action showing wear and tear.

 

Well Dave,- I toured intensively w/ KX88, KX76 and DX7mkII.

I´m 1st owner and had pro flightcases always for everything.

But the gear was in the hand of roadies and it traveled in trucks, planes and on ships.

My KX88 never failed and I sold it only because I wanted a Rhodes MK80 w/ the KX76 on top w/ the DX7mkII to the right in L-configuration.

I still use this rig, replaced the DX7mkII to the right by a Kurzweil PC361 but still own the DX7mkII.

The KX76 has never seen a service center and is technically in excellent condition.

It also looks very good for the 24 years I used it and I´d go out on stage w/ it any day !

There´s not much inside a KX to replace because of ageing,- maybe some tantalum caps and some in the PSU.

We also refurbished my DX7mkII some time ago and the only work necessary was throwing in new tactile switches. Very cheap Omron switches you find at Mouser and Digikey. They also survived a quarter of a century.

Even the floppy disk drive works ´til today and the display shines because it´s the 2nd one already after roadies damaged the 1st one in 1988.

When you look at my QX1 hardware sequencer you won´t believe how old it is because it works like a charm and looks like new.

In the 80s and early 90s I sweared on Yahama gear because it´s so rugged and so well built.

My REV7 still works as does my D1500 delay and the TX816 is in very good condition too.

 

I´d never buy any really beaten up gear though, but aged electronics aren´t urgently unreliable.

 

Unfortunately, my Kurz PC361 is much more unreliable than any old Yamaha keyboard I have here even it has much more features and sounds amazing.

But it´s possibly the features, complex OS and FX quality which makes it glitch.

 

A.C.

 

[joegerardi]

As to the crack- it might be a bit of a pain to actually do, but you can use the trick we use in airplanes. It's called stop-drilling. If anything cracks on an airplane in a non-stress area (Spinners, tailpieces, wingtips, etc.) we drill a small (~1/16th") hole at the end of the crack to stop it. Almost a permanent fix. You might be able to find a small punch and just pop out the ends of the crack, a little clear nail polish on top to seal what's there, and that should stop it.

 

As to the velocity, I see we were talking at odds: far too many people state that the KX is incapable of going to a velocity of 127: that it has the same limitations as the original DX7 of a MIDI top velocity of 100; I see now that you're talking about the velocity curve itself, not the range of the programming. There's a little trick for this too, but it's a real PITA: take the keybed apart and flip the metal pieces underneath the keys around. Over the years they develop just a little bend in them, and spinning them points that bend slightly down, so that the pressure pushes on the lower metal piece just a little bit more, giving it a hair more length and increasing the velocity just slightly.

 

Last bit of info on the ruggedness of the KX series: I was doing a gig at a beach club in Buffalo. (I think it was called Sunset Bay. I know it wasn't Mickey Rats.) Had a 3' high stage above the concrete. A wobbly drunk sits on the edge of the stage, wobbles some more, then starts to teeter over. Reaching out, he grabs the bottom corner of my Invisible Stand and pulls it with him over the edge. I grab the M1 on top, but the KX88 went over and hit the concrete floor. I jump off the stage, accidentally kick the now passed-out drunk 4 or 5 times in the head (I think it was 4, and probably in tempo to the song we had been playing) and examine what I think to be the wreckage of the KX88. We haul it back up on to the stage, and aside from one of the plastic ends being cracked, saw no other damage. I plug it in, and Viola! not only did the damn thing work, but I used it for another 2 years without any issues at all. That's 63 lbs. of dead-weight controller falling over 4 feet to a concrete floor, and suffering only a cracked corner of an endcap. I ended up selling it when I moved to Savannah, with full disclosure to a friend, who kept it for another 5 years or so, until he sold it.

 

It was still working at that point, without ever failing once.

 

..Joe

[Al Coda]

As to the crack-

 

Joe, thx for your cool tips in regards to the crack and the velocity !

 

you're talking about the velocity curve itself, not the range of the programming.

 

Well, interesting statement !

 

Can be I´m wrong, but my understanding of a velocity curve, also a (custom) modified non-linear one was always the lowest value is 0 (1) and the highest is 127 (128).

What happens in between then is the modification of the curve, p.ex. some exponential treatment or such.

Is the curve starting at a higher value than 0 or 1,- to me that´s "velocity shift" and if the curve ends at a value lower than 127 (128) that´s "velocity limit".

 

I´m using these terms because in my Miditemp PMM88E processor, I´m able to process velocity exactly that way, programming curves and use "shift" and "limit".

Positive and negative offsets possible in adition.

These features are also used for velocity splits and layers.

 

Now, when the velocity curve in a KX76 and DX7mkII ends at a velocity value of #105 w/ a key hit the hardest way but the specs say the range is 0-127,- to me that´s a velocity curve w/ a limit of "-22".

I also think the velocity curve of a DX7mkII and KX76 is linear, isn´t it ?

 

Anyway, I didn´t for a long time but I´ll redo a velocity test w/ the DX7mkII and the KX76 as well as the KX-5 using a MIDI monitor and come up w/ the results.

 

Liked your story w/ the KX88 kicked from stand,- it´s exactly my experience w/ some 70s, the 80s and early to mid 90s gear, not only Yamaha.

I had roadies kick a Minimoog from highest tier of USS Apache A-frame stand as well as a Prophet 5 and just only had small dents in the wooden side panels, the instruments working for many years more w/o needing any service.

 

Now, for me the idea w/ the old keyboard-controllers is using ´em for modifications which is, because of the warranty, not possible w/ new gear.

I think the KX and DX is ideal to upgrade w/ Alyseum ethernet MIDI which requires drilling holes in the cases and some soldering.

I also plan pulling the velocity transformers circuit boards out of their plastic cases and mount ´em directly into the keyboards where they get powered from the internal PSU and offer an additional MIDI channel split and separate physical MIDI outputs for the original and the processed curve.

These EES M3 velocity transformers work that way and offer all the physical connectors and the switch for the split already.

Very cool toys.

 

A.C.