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How to quickly create charts? Merging sibelius w e-chords?


I-missRichardTee

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I am seeking a computer based device ( ipad, tablet, PC based 11.6" laptop etc ) /as well as a suggested service, such as e-chords, to quickly gather a lot of Blues tunes into a computer format. The proposed documents would include both what e-chords provides:

-Lyrics, or at least lyric cues.

-Title.

-Chords

 

But e-chords is a little weak here: chart for 1. intro, 2. coda ending, 3. song, 4. solo section- basically 4 part chart.

 

This next part is even more difficult to incorporate.. but is vital, since I am playing bass lines, and other signature licks, when possible.

Licks for Horns,

Key Bass lines,

and any other important melodic lines associated with the tune. This would presumably be on staff paper such as Sibelius.

Here is the thrust of this thread:

Which is the most effective and feasible way to choose to accomplish this:

1. Start with the info that a subscription service like e-chords, provides and add a few key measures of Sibelius-based licks to that document?

Or, add the subscriptions song info, into a Sibelius file?

Two very different routes!

It would seem quicker to copy and paste ( Or a better service you suggest ) e-chords info, to a new document, then somehow add the missing Sibelius based staff paper to the e-chords document.

 

Or maybe another service already has what I want, for a price?

 

I need help choosing a PC based ( much as I like Apple, I need a PC based small laptop for a Yamaha product- though this is not written in stone -) ) 11.6" laptop, my preference, that is, unless the iPad is clearly the better tool.

 

Thank you much.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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I think you might have to do it manually. I have made my self a book of 100's of custom lead sheets using Sibelius alone. I finaly realize how to makew the fonts look exactly like the current Real Book

Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and also helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." 

Harry teaches jazz piano online using Facebook Messenger, FaceTime, or Google Meet.

 

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e-chords.com, was recommended by a friend , but apparently it is not an accredited business "This Business is not BBB Accredited", having not used it much, I only realized this today!

Does anyone know of a similar subscription service that provides charts to songs? Hopefully one that does not break the bank!

e-chords charges $25 per year. I am not even sure what state their "business" is in.

 

 

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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I think you might have to do it manually. I have made my self a book of 100's of custom lead sheets using Sibelius alone. I finally realize how to make the fonts look exactly like the current Real Book

 

Oh Lord... these are Blues tunes! Though similar, they are also dissimilar. It's the little nuances licks, that make these tunes unique. I need to have this in front of me! Not very Blues like of me ! Guess I'm a 21st Century Blues man!

The e-chords company, seems to have a lot of tunes mostly in tab form... very handy, but again , I want the ability to add small amount of staff paper to the final doc. I need hundreds of tunes.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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In order to be "accredited" by the BBB, a firm must pay annual fees. There are a large number of good firms that for one reason or another choose not to spend their capital in that manner (including mine). Smaller firms in particular.

BBB will still provide listing of any complaints of such firms (and the firm can respond to any complaint without having to become accredited).

I would not let the lack of BBB accreditation significantly influence my choice of dealing with the firm. Internet search engines will generally reveal if there are significant problems.

 

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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Tee, this comes up on the Biab forum all the time because so many people are doing singles and use Biab live on gigs.

 

The suggestion there from both me and other long time users is to use midi files. A good midi file has everything in it you need including all those licks, lyrics, melodies and chords. You're not playing the midi file of you don't want to, you're using it to print the charts you're talking about. A lot of these files can be found free on the web but that can be hit or miss. If you want to simply short circuit that, get this done then there's many very good commercial sites around that sell really excellent midi's for maybe $3-4 apiece in quantity like a hundred.

 

I don't know about other DAW's but both Biab and Real Band which is free with Biab have a very good "extract chords" function and then print it out in fake book format. The printing is not as good as a dedicated program like Sibelius but then it's free with the program. Here's the good part for you. You don't need the latest version of Biab. They haven't upgraded that function in years, it's been there for at least 10-15 years so any old version of Biab will do and they're very cheap on Ebay.

 

Here's another thing about midi files and that is they're very easy to edit yourself. If you find a free version of Crossfire for example but it's not quite right, you just go into the midi editor and change it to what you want just by playing any midi keyboard and recording it as midi then print it out. It's really very easy.

 

I don't want to go into lots of detail here unless you're interested so if you are I can show you a lot about this.

 

Bob

Hammond SK1, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
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In order to be "accredited" by the BBB, a firm must pay annual fees. There are a large number of good firms that for one reason or another choose not to spend their capital in that manner (including mine). Smaller firms in particular.

BBB will still provide listing of any complaints of such firms (and the firm can respond to any complaint without having to become accredited).

I would not let the lack of BBB accreditation significantly influence my choice of dealing with the firm. Internet search engines will generally reveal if there are significant problems.

 

I am with you on this, my friend.. Thank you.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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I guess I misunderstood--you want it in Staff format.

 

As is often the case with Tee.. I would like BOTH ! Both the quick inexpensive charts that eg e-chords provide ( $25 per year- I have paid one year so far )

AND the ability to merge some form of cyber staff with licks on it. Unless you know a better way!

The e-chords deal, has a large number of charts for cheap. They are not perfect though, and are more in line with tablature but still they are quick and not small in their library.

Speed is important here. I would just hate to give up all the little licks that are an important part of these tunes.

I just discovered Muddy Waters doing Hootchie Coochie, Man.. The licks are really cool, and the ones I have heard bands do, are bastardized versions!

So staff with the licks, plus a subscription service to simple chord charts would be a life saver!

Thank you

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Tab is free online.... it takes minutes to type it into Sibelius when you are familiar with it all.

 

Thank you.. free eh? I tried to go online to Sibelius ( I have a legit version 7 that is a pita- though I have not spent much time dealing with it! ) forum, because got a bum rush when I tried? Is there a forum to get answers to Sib questions?

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Sibelius interfaces with PhotoScore software for recognition and scanning ... but it creates errors and uses a nerdy default font... NOT recommended. It's quicker to enter manually using your own hip custom fonts, note size enlargement, and layout template. It took me years to get my layout super eye friendly for gigs....the Sibelius default settings are AWFUL.

Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and also helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." 

Harry teaches jazz piano online using Facebook Messenger, FaceTime, or Google Meet.

 

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Tab is free online.... it takes minutes to type it into Sibelius when you are familiar with it all.

 

Lord, could they have picked a more jump through google hoops name; TAB?

Can you whip a link on me, Brother? I tried to find it, though e-chords is ok. It would be great if I could find a site that caters to ahem pianists, for a change!

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Tab is an abbreviation for tablature. Wikipedia on Tablature Tab works well as a method of notation for instruments like a guitar, not so well for keyboards.

Modern usage of tablature includes using the word tab instead of chord chart.

 

I have tried scanning (with a scanner on their approved list) of music into both Finale and Sibelius, I even bought the SmartScoreX addin for Finale. Results have been very inconsistent, with enough manual cleanup required that I could enter by hand in little more time. Original intent was to reduce SATB choral arrangements of cantatas (which my church has purchased the rights) to a "lead sheet" showing just chords and melodic line (mostly to reduce page turns). Wound up just making chord charts without the staff of the lead line, the other was just too labor-intensive.

 

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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e-chords is tabs... it won't import into Sibelius... even if it could you would have to double check it all which would take longer than simply typing it in ... typing chords manually into Sibelius should take around 60 seconds for 12 bars... the OP, without realizing it, is looking for ways that would actually make chart making more time consuming..

Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and also helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." 

Harry teaches jazz piano online using Facebook Messenger, FaceTime, or Google Meet.

 

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So I could use an app like e-chords for a quick sketch of lyrics and chords

Then create from Sib?

Is Sibelius forum functioning now?

Thanks

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Maybe a dozen.or two! And they were on earlier versions

Much time elapsed between my use of earlier version 5 , And my acquiring version 7

Seven is a bit off putting

 

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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I recommend you make some setting changes and then Save the chart as a default chart and use it for all your future charts. Let me know if you want the customized settings that I have evolved to over the past 10 years with thousands of charts. I could email you a template sort of chart with the custom settings that you could work from going forward. Sibelius default settings are really hard on our older eyes and ugly as heck.

Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and also helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." 

Harry teaches jazz piano online using Facebook Messenger, FaceTime, or Google Meet.

 

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Jazz when you say you cannot import e-chords into Sibelius..

I assume, the reverse is true too, I cannot import Sibelius into e-chords?

I am not clear about the term import ( I know I should be ) , but are you saying I cannot copy and paste from e-chords into Sibelius?

I am only asking because e-chords is handy.

You have been generally saying the time saved on one end will be lost on the other. therefore, only copying by eyeballing e-chords, and then entering into Sibelius is the only reasonable way!

Is Sibelius a cool program for showing lyrics?

And finally this: the end result will be, PDF's for an ipad or thinkpad?

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Tee,

 

Are you looking to create a simple chord chart with say a couple of 4 to 12 bar properly notated riffs or lead lines?

 

If so, I create the chart in Microsoft Word. 4 bars per line with lyrics underneath. For simple riffs I inset these in tab format using a non-proportional font. For more compex lines I use notation format done in Muse score or GuitarPro and export these as jpegs and insert the jpegs into the Word doc. This way I am not reliant on using a software program or file format that may or may not be compatible with future OS's. Tux guitar is free and similar to Guitar Pro.

 

If there is a tricky guitar chord or two I similarly grab an image of the exact fingering and insert this jpeg image also.

 

Saving it as a Word doc means that down the road if the song comes up again I can open the file and quickly do a refresh with the tricky bits noted. You can export Word docs as pdf's or use a free pdf utility such as cute pdf.

 

PM me if you would like an example.

 

MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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And Tee, don't overlook what I said about midi files. If you've never used them for charts then it sounds completely foreign but it's works great. Biab takes a midi file and will print out the entire song, lyrics, chords and whatever is actually written as music and it can be a double or single staff. The double would be song specific bass lines for example while the top staff is the melody or other licks.

 

This is separate from simply creating the song from scratch in Biab and playing those licks yourself and then printing out the chart. That works great too. Biab is not as sophisticated in chart making as Sibelius but it's oh so much easier and again you don't need the latest version, you don't even need a five year old version, you can use the midi only original version because you don't care about sound quality, you're not using it for that, just charts.

 

And yes, if you have a pdf driver installed on your machine like Cutepdf or the like when you hit print in Biab just choose that as the printer and there's your pdf chart you can then import into anything.

 

Bob

Hammond SK1, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
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