Keyboard Seat in a GB Band

[David Loving]

Let's go back in time. The theatre organ, and the synth, were created so leaders would not have to pay individual musicians. That's why synths, keyboards have all those sounds. Why pay 15 string players when you can pay the keyboardist? If you are offended by not being paid as an orchestra turn the gig down, or make the leader a counter offer based on what you think your "orchestra" is worth. Let us know how that works out for you.

 

[Hobo]

I'm on your side Elton. I consider myself a keyboard player , and that to me is piano, organ rhodes wurly. I didn't take up keys to be a replication or facsimile of another instrument. But hey it seems like we're in the minority!

[J. Dan]

I always find this attitude interesting. Will you be bringing an acoustic piano and Hammond organ to the gigs? I'm guessing not. So you'll be playing samples of a real piano and samples of a Hammond, not the real thing. So who cares if it's a sample of a horn or strings....they're parts. Did Keith Emerson complain that he had to play so many different parts? I guarantee playing all the parts he played in some of those songs was more difficult than throwing in a brass part alongside some easy piano part, or whatever. I play because I like to play....bring it on! If you just want to play piano, get a cocktail bar gig.

 

[video:youtube]

[Joe Muscara]

I'm on your side Elton. I consider myself a keyboard player , and that to me is piano, organ rhodes wurly. I didn't take up keys to be a replication or facsimile of another instrument. But hey it seems like we're in the minority!

There are a few of us who prefer the piano, organ, EP stuff only, no recreations. But I don't speak for anyone else and I'm impressed by the work and talent guys like Dan and others here do.

 

Overall, I agree with what I've quoted from Bobby here.

 

I don't mean this meanly, but if you want to DO this gig, I think you might need an attitude adjustment about the whole thing. Look on the opportunity with relish not annoyance, and rejoice in those $500 corporate gigs and the fact that if you kick ass at what you do, you'll have the best band in town. That's exactly the way I look at my band.

 

Either that, or if you're truly annoyed by what's being asked because you just want to rock out on piano or organ (which is fine), then turn the gig down and go find a situation where you can do that.

[Hobo]

No it's samples and modelled versions of piano, hammond etc. Ideally yes I'd love to have the real deal on a gig. But to me the thing is , it's playing things that were designed to be played on a keyboard instrument. To me playing anything else ( horns, strings etc ) is just a poor representation of the real thing. Maybe I'm deluded. But I just can't get off on doing those things. No problem if anyone else is into it, that's totally cool. I suppose I can give my best in a band when I'm providing a solid Wurlitzer track , like a rhythm guitarist would, or a hammond track like a pedal steel would , etc. All feel and spontaneous. But I realise everyone is different.

 

I wouldn't expect a drummer with electronic kit to play horn parts just because he could either. Each to their own I guess.

[BbAltered]

That's one of my fears: putting in the work to cover the necessary parts with the necessary sound, and having one of the other players say to me (ignoring all that I have done) "that sound is no good. haven't you got something better?" (or worse: "the other keyboard player had such and such a keyboard, and it sounded better")

 

My other worry is using all my time and energy to do this thing, and then not having time and energy to work on the stuff I want to work on: being a better solo pianist, studying the Well-tempered Clavier, etc.

 

My own personal opinion has never had much respect for bands that forego a horn player (even one) and use instead a cheap keyboard imitation. Certain, every guitarist I have ever met is very particular about their own guitar sound, so why does that concern get tossed aside when it comes to the sounds of the other parts?

 

As others here have said. getting paid more because you play more parts will never happen. That's the way it is and has been for a long time. Covering strings, horns, synths, etc. is part of doing these gigs. Just wait until you get a leader that complains about your sounds not exactly matching what's on the record!

[jerrythek]

Let's go back in time. The theatre organ, and the synth, were created so leaders would not have to pay individual musicians.

 

LOL, I always wondered why.

[jerrythek]

It seems pretty obvious that you're not going to be happy being put in the position asked for. I don't think anything we can say will change that - why fight it?

 

The money is tempting, but a ways into the gig I think your inherent feelings will resurface and make you unhappy. Follow your heart.

 

Jerry

[J. Dan]

A lot of it comes down to context as well. I'll concede that if you're playing a style of music where almost every song has horns, you should hire a horn section. You don't do a Chicago tribute band and expect to cover the horns on keys. But doing variety, you're not going to have a horn section, a string section, a backing choir, and everything else you'd need to do every song. If I'm doing horns on 8 out of 45 songs in a night, I'm cool with that. Incidentally, there are likely to also be a few songs with no keys. It washes out in the end.

[BbAltered]

Another problem I have is this friend in this band. We have played together in the past, and I hope to play with him in the future.

 

But it could turn out I lose the friend: it could happen if I take the job (frustrations of working together, etc), or if I turn down the job.

[Steve LeBlanc]

Clearly, I need an attitude adjustment on this!!

 

The cynic in me says "my keyboard also mimics guitars and basses and drums - I could DO ALL the parts, and put the guitarist and bassist out of a job".

 

.....

 

I among quite a few others here have done that. I wouldn't work with a bassist for quite few years unless they brought something tothe late like killer vocals. Just run 360 Systems Midibass into a bass guitar amp. One less cut. Now with modern instruments and digital amp simulation built into the patch libraries it is even easier. I just run the bass right through the rest of the keyboard sends.

 

yes, for 4 years I toured and played TV/Radio shows playing all the parts except the drums...just me a drummer and the 'star'...I didn't get paid more for that either

 

The multi-instrument/cover-all gig is certainly not for everyone, only take gigs you want to do, but a lot of us like the role and it is a niche that keeps a lot of us working (at least sometimes).

 

Like Jerry said, follow your heart, just giving you my point of view

[Joe Muscara]

Another problem I have is this friend in this band. We have played together in the past, and I hope to play with him in the future.

 

But it could turn out I lose the friend: it could happen if I take the job (frustrations of working together, etc), or if I turn down the job.

You're overthinking this aspect of it. If you turn down the job, will you really lose him as a friend and or contact? If so, he wasn't worth having anyway.

 

The reality is that if you say to him, "thanks, but it's just not my thing to do all that," he will probably be cool with it.

[Michael Wright]

I hope to play with him in the future.

But it could turn out I lose the friend: it could happen if I take the job (frustrations of working together, etc), or if I turn down the job.

Ya just gotta do whatya gotta do.

[Threadslayer]

Incidentally, there are likely to also be a few songs with no keys.

Otherwise known as keyboard player Hell. Personally I would much rather have too much to do than not enough.

[J. Dan]

Incidentally, there are likely to also be a few songs with no keys.

Otherwise known as keyboard player Hell. Personally I would much rather have too much to do than not enough.

 

That's where the ability to sing leads is nice. Our bass player sings most of the leads. If it's a guitar song, i usually grab the mic and front the band for that song.

[midinut]

Another problem I have is this friend in this band. We have played together in the past, and I hope to play with him in the future.

 

But it could turn out I lose the friend: it could happen if I take the job (frustrations of working together, etc), or if I turn down the job.

You're overthinking this aspect of it. If you turn down the job, will you really lose him as a friend and or contact? If so, he wasn't worth having anyway.

 

The reality is that if you say to him, "thanks, but it's just not my thing to do all that," he will probably be cool with it.

 

Another idea may be to sit down with your friend and explain your reservations in a tactful, diplomatic way. Then see what happens. Just my two shiney Lincolns.

[retrokeys]

You could also just say you are a keyboard player. You will play, organ, piano, electric piano, clavinet, a pure synth lead and maybe even accordian parts (if asked nicely) If they want horns, strings, flutes, lutes and banjos, they can either hire them or those chores can be split equally. You may not get the gig but you will have been honest and maybe given the others some food for thought. Doesn't sound like you have much to lose.

 

[wmp]

Piano, EP, organ, and clav if you're funky enough. For cheap bar gigs (pronounced bah gigs in my old neihhborhood) it's piano or organ. For a steady stream of $500 gigs I'd go underwater and [verb] fish. Cash up front.

[Steve Force]

Piano, EP, organ, and clav if you're funky enough. For cheap bar gigs (pronounced bah gigs in my old neihhborhood) it's piano or organ. For a steady stream of $500 gigs I'd go underwater and [verb] fish. Cash up front.

 

[EscapeRocks]

I do occasionally have to explain that I'm not going to sound like the TOP horn section.

 

Slacker!

[EscapeRocks]

For a steady stream of $500 gigs I'd go underwater and [verb] fish. Cash up front.

 

 

I nominate WMP for the greatest sig line creator ever!!

 

[J. Dan]

For a steady stream of $500 gigs I'd go underwater and [verb] fish. Cash up front.

 

 

I nominate WMP for the greatest sig line creator ever!!

 

 

Second! Anyone care to call the body to a vote?

[Reezekeys]

Yea if you're doing a lot of $500 gigs then the equation changes a bit, right? One other thing I can say is that, after you spend the time setting up all those splits, layers, etc., then play a few gigs, it does get easier. You'll be switchin' presets without a second thought.

 

The other thing is that most older songs don't need much beyond piano, organ, clav, string pads and an occasional brass stab. To be honest I never even set up splits, just layered everything and switched stuff on & off. The newer top 40 stuff is actually way more of a drag, because the synth sounds are more specific, there's a lot of them, you definitely will need splits, and playing them is mind-numbingly boring since 95% of the time you're imitating a sequencer playing a loop. But, it's a GB band and this is a job, right? I put a smile on my face and thought about the check as I looked out into the room at the waiters bussing tables for $7.50/hr.

[David Loving]

For a steady stream of $500 gigs I'd go underwater and [verb] fish. Cash up front.

 

 

I nominate WMP for the greatest sig line creator ever!!

 

 

 

Second! Anyone care to call the body to a vote?

 

The question has been moved and seconded. WMP greatest sig line creator ever by acclimation. All in favor say "aye." AYE!

[Doerfler]

The question has been moved and seconded. WMP greatest sig line creator ever by acclimation. All in favor say "aye."

Since I've already been using something Wayne posted in my signature line for a while now I'll be the first to reply "aye". Go ahead, you guys can jump on my train. Just make sure to give him credit.

[Rustar]

Take the gig and make sure you play the signature parts well. Like the other guy said, you only have two hands and can do no more than two parts at a time, most of the time. If there like most guitar players, they won't know jack about keys. Just nail the most conspicuous parts. Good gigs aren't easy to come by, especially if the guys have the business end down.

[wmp]

The question has been moved and seconded. WMP greatest sig line creator ever by acclimation. All in favor say "aye."

Since I've already been using something Wayne posted in my signature line for a while now I'll be the first to reply "aye". Go ahead, you guys can jump on my train. Just make sure to give him credit.

I prefer cash to credit.

 

I may as well vote for myself. Aye!

 

I've voted for myself every time I've gone to the polls in the last 20 years. It wasn't enough to be president, senator, governor, or mayor. I might stand a chance of winning this honor. For no cash and little credit. But it warms my heart that y'all seem to enjoy my sense of humor. Lots of folks don't.

 

To stray back on topic a bit, I wish I could do it all on keys. Guys like Wix (Sir Paul's keyboard player) knock me out. Kurzweil's Rigby Strings patch sounds awesome in his hands and pretty lame in mine. I'm not very good with horns either, no matter how good the horn sounds happen to be. I haven't actually tried it, because nobody's put up the cash, but I'd probably be better at going underwater and [verb]ing fish.

 

 

 

[MonksDream]

Aye!

[Joe Muscara]

I have a file with WMP quotes, both from KC and ones he's said to me. It's a riot.

[J Graul]

I've always been the "cover everything else" player. When I was leaving a band I had been playing with for about 5 years, a friend of the band (who is also a very talented musician) said they'd need to get a vocalist, two keyboard players, and a brass section to replace me. That was one of the best complements I've had as a musician.