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Walking Bassline Master Class


Ybyb

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Hi Rick,

I have a special interest in left hand bass techniques, for a range of style, not just walking bass. I am, therefore, especially interested in your post.

 

If you have the time, I would be pleased to hear more specifically what you don't particularly like about Dave's bass lines to Green Dolphin Street. While I respect your right to to be"Not crazy about his lines", it would help all forum members considerably if you could discuss even small portions of the bass lines and so show why you have formed the preferences you have.

 

Thanks for any further explanation and discussion you might offer.

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Why not listen to the better bass players within your chosen genre? No one equals their knowledge/ skill.

But go back in time.. to increase access to slightly simpler bass lines.

 

For Organ... any number of 20th century B3 players come to mind.

 

Rock left hand bass.. The Doors, Ray M.

Piano bass... Oscar Peterson.

Or Boogie Woogie any number of players.

R&B or Funk? check out Chester Thompson... he actually plays pedals on at least one track.

Jazz... start with Ray Brown.. and remain there for a few years!

A funkier jazz style, try Chuck Rainey playing "Watch What Happens" for Lena Horne

Paul McCartney always came up with very nice and unique lines.

Motown.. is more advanced than you might think James Jamerson was the god of those brilliant lines.

Latin go back in time to 1950's- 1970.

Pino Paladino is another more pop player to check out

A player like Marcus Miller is rather advanced and his lines will not easily translate on a keyboard... but you can attempt it, once you get more proficient.

It's all there, listen to the masters, and learn the note choices they make.

 

From the beginning , I have always made good bass lines.. some kind of a talent I have taken for granted. I have always thought it was no big deal to create good lines... but as I mature, i am starting to realize basslines are a deep study. The best place is with the best bass players.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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As a long-time bass player, I agree completely with Mr. I-missRichardTee. Listen to the actual basslines played by these artists. His list (Above) is IMPRESSIVE. This man knows hsis music.

 

I checked out the OP's youtube and quite frankly, as a bass player it did NOTHING for me. Different strokes for different folks?

Steve Force,

Durham, North Carolina

--------

My Professional Websites

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Much as I admire the support some members of this forum want to extend to others, in the matter of hearing bass lines and understanding them, this has been shown to be misplaced support.

 

More generally, and more helpfully for everyone, building keyboard bass lines is of widespread interest, and it is most helpful when people can say exactly what they like or don't like about specific lines, and why. Then we can all think about the facts in front of us, and learn.

 

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This is art... I do not know if analysis can explain why one line is preferable to another. I may be wrong. on this. I just think the lines themselves speak for themselves.

 

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Why not listen to the better bass players within your chosen genre? No one equals their knowledge/ skill.

But go back in time.. to increase access to slightly simpler bass lines.

 

For Organ... any number of 20th century B3 players come to mind.

 

Rock left hand bass.. The Doors, Ray M.

Piano bass... Oscar Peterson.

Or Boogie Woogie any number of players.

R&B or Funk? check out Chester Thompson... he actually plays pedals on at least one track.

Jazz... start with Ray Brown.. and remain there for a few years!

A funkier jazz style, try Chuck Rainey playing "Watch What Happens" for Lena Horne

Paul McCartney always came up with very nice and unique lines.

Motown.. is more advanced than you might think James Jamerson was the god of those brilliant lines.

Latin go back in time to 1950's- 1970.

Pino Paladino is another more pop player to check out

A player like Marcus Miller is rather advanced and his lines will not easily translate on a keyboard... but you can attempt it, once you get more proficient.

It's all there, listen to the masters, and learn the note choices they make.

 

From the beginning , I have always made good bass lines.. some kind of a talent I have taken for granted. I have always thought it was no big deal to create good lines... but as I mature, i am starting to realize basslines are a deep study. The best place is with the best bass players.

 

Couldn't agree with you more. As more of a Hammond player than piano I always listened to bassists more than other keyboard players for LH playing. My big four were Michael Henderson and Dave Holland during their Miles era, Jack Bruce, and Andy Fraser from Free. All were big influences on me.

http://bigfun3.bandcamp.com

www.facebook.com/BigFunThree

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In defense of Mr. Frank (not that he needs my help!), but I don't see what IMRT's list has to do with the OP. I mean, sure, study the bassists in the style of music that you wish to play, but the original video is talking about walking jazz bass lines. It's not funk, R&B, boogie woogie, etc. The concepts Mr. Frank discusses for this type of bass line are solid. You can use them to create your own walking bass lines. If you want to play like Michael Henderson Solid, that's a totally different discussion, isn't it?

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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I think the criticisms presented here are cool. Tee's list is great. The intent on this class was to teach beginners how to construct a solid functional bassline, and to present the precise process whereby a pianist can learn, step-by-step, how to add an improvised RH line to an improvised bassline.

 

DF

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EDITED to not offend delicate people.
Huh - delicate? :confused:

 

I don't get the problem here. Like TrapperJack, I was looking for some clarity in the discussion. IMO, what IMRT and Steve Force posted were a bit different than the OP. While that's fine, I felt like it didn't really address the question of what was wrong with the OP. If this style of bass line isn't your thing, cool. but if it is yet it didn't work for you (like the poster who disagreed with his approach to Green Dolphin Street), then I think it would add to the discussion to know why.

 

I hope I'm making sense. I'm not trying to be dismissive and I hope I'm not. I'm just kind of thinking that the OP said, "here are synthesis methods for the Nord Lead" and you guys are saying that they won't work on a Moog or something. Maybe I'm missing something. :idk:

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Thank you Dave Frank for your graciousness. You are causing me to think more deeply about what I have taken for granted. I do not have your teaching skill, so bear with me!

I just had another thought that is a mere hint at what best bass lines are about. If you ever studied counterpoint, it is a bit tricky topic in my opinion. The more time passes, the more the subtle variations that define it, multiply, and thus confuse a beginner.

Here is one brief Wiki derived description:

"It is hard to write a beautiful song. It is harder to write several individually beautiful songs that, when sung simultaneously, sound as a more beautiful polyphonic whole....."

Here is my thought that amends the above with regard to a bassline. A bassline, is to some extent similar to a contrapuntal line, in this sense, it makes all the other voices ( normally found in "chords" ) sound their best. It however does NOT have nearly the same degree of melodic freedom as the other voices.

 

Being a bass player is a fine line situation, while there is certainly some creativity; it is a creativity designed to sacrifice some of its own creativity for the overall harmony of the other voices. . It reminds me of a parent, the parent has limited freedom, but is always thinking of the "good" of the family, of the whole. Just an analogy, ok!

Another analogy is American Football. A bass player is definitely a defensive player, seldom the quarterback or receiver. He makes the soloists sound great! He supports, yet does do vibrantly, he selflessly gives up some melodic freedom for the sake of the groove, and subsequent creativity of all soloists.

 

It is NOT about chops/ technique at all. If you speed the tempo up, sure, technique becomes more a factor, but this confuses the issue. A great bass line more often occurs at "normal" tempi; technique is much less a factor, than an intuitive knowledge of the best lines possible.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Hi Mr Muscara Happy New Year... Dave said his class on youtube was more for a beginner to step by step discover ways of being more creative in bass lines. I don't know if the nature of the instrument making the line- whether a piano, or a synth bass, or an organ, was ever brought up.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Hey Joe, Don't get your panties knotted up in a twist, it wasn't directed at you! :D I found the video to be...lacking.

 

Want to get some Real bassline advice? For Improvising jazz, ask

 

Mahavishnu's Rick Laird. Or, for walking bass, ask Ed Friedland to name just two.

 

:wave:

 

EDIT: Just noticed the OP was on the thread. Cool! But where pray tell is the Buckley College of Music?

Steve Force,

Durham, North Carolina

--------

My Professional Websites

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I ain't in a knot, I thought you were. :D

 

I have the Friedland book, but haven't spent the appropriate time with it. I'm sure it's good stuff, though.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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EDIT: Just noticed the OP was on the thread. Cool! But where pray tell is the Buckley College of Music?
Ybyb is Dave Frank. The Buckley thing was a joke.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Watching the DF video, I was reminded that as I play left hand bass, an issue of where your attention is, comes up for me. When I listen to various people play left hand bass, I often think to myself:

'this pianist is not thinking enough like a bass player, his attention is more on the right hand, more like a pianist, than like a bass player'.

As a bass player, I believe my bass players sensibilities, give me the advantage.

There are untold numbers of pianists with more technique than me, but I play left hand bass more strongly than the majority of them, regardless of how many Bach Inventions they know! ( And btw Bach is at the top of my favorite musician composers )

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Watching the DF video, I was reminded that as I play left hand bass, an issue of where your attention is, comes up for me. When I listen to various people play left hand bass, I often think to myself:

'this pianist is not thinking enough like a bass player, his attention is more on the right hand, more like a pianist, than like a bass player'.

As a bass player, I believe my bass players sensibilities, give me the advantage.

There are untold numbers of pianists with more technique than me, but I play left hand bass more strongly than the majority of them, regardless of how many Bach Inventions they know! ( And btw Bach is at the top of my favorite musician composers )

 

I heard the same sort of comment from organists trying to play piano, pianists trying to play organ, and untold keyboardist trying to play bass on the keys.

 

Sort of like me trying to learn how to play brass instruments by listening to Oingo Boingo's "Dead Man's Party." (kidding!)

Steve Force,

Durham, North Carolina

--------

My Professional Websites

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fwiw, I reckon that sometimes folks just get way too technical with this stuff.

 

Just play what sounds good to you. Even if it is only oom pah type basslines, who cares.

 

For me, it has always been and ALWAYS will be about HOW something is played, not what is being played. As long as the music is coming from the heart and with honest emotion, and not some Jazz Hanon book, that is all that really matters.

 

jm 2c :D

 

 

 

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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