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Fa 06 and vr09 organ engine the same?


Kevmo

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FA-06 has no built in drawbars/sliders, though I recall someone saying on here that the FA used the same organ engine as the VR-09. I was just in our local dealer and the Roland Rep there said that he wouldn't be surprised if they've even updated the organ engine slightly. Speculation, obviously, and I doubt it very much considering the VR-09's engine is just over a year old.

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?

Any Drawbar on Fa posible

 

Per the Roland FA 06/08 product pages: "All of the INTEGRA-7s SuperNATURAL® synth and XV-5080 PCM tones are onboard, plus an essential collection of ultra-expressive SuperNATURAL acoustic tones that includes pianos, organs, drums, bass, strings, and more"

 

Note that SN Organ IS included in the list of SN acoustic tones. That said, the Integra-7 SN organ is more limited than the VR-09 implementation (ex. you have no physical drawbar faders on the FA series, there is only one SN TW model and FX routing is more limited with one MFX per part). From the Integra 7 manual here is SN TW organ parameter description:

***************************************************

INT: 029 TW Organ

The sound will be unaffected by the strength with which you play the keyboard

This allows you to use the nine harmonic bars to create your sound just as on a tone wheel organ

Parameter Value Explanation

Harmonic Bar 16' 08

Adjust the level of each footage

A different harmonic component is assigned to each footage; the sound of the organ is

created by mixing these components

The 8 footage is the core of the sound; this is the basic pitch around which the sound is

created

* Harmonic Bar 1 is unavailable if Percussion Switch is on

Harmonic Bar 5-1/3' 08

Harmonic Bar 8' 08

Harmonic Bar 4' 08

Harmonic Bar 2-2/3' 08

Harmonic Bar 2' 08

Harmonic Bar 1-3/5' 08

Harmonic Bar 1-1/3' 08

Harmonic Bar 1' 08

Leakage Level 0127 Noise Level at which the signal of tone wheels unrelated to the pressed keys is mixed into

the input

Percussion Switch OFF, ON If this is on, a crisp attack will be added to the beginning of the notes

Percussion Soft NORM, SOFT

NORM: The percussion sound will be at the normal volume, and the sound of the harmonic

bars will be reduced

SOFT: The percussion sound will be reduced, and the harmonic bars will be at the normal

volume

Percussion Soft Level 015 Volume of the percussion sound when Percussion Soft is set to SOFT

Percussion Normal Level 015 Volume of the percussion sound when Percussion Soft is set to NORM

Parameter Value Explanation

Percussion Slow FAST, SLOW

FAST: The percussion sound will disappear immediately, producing a sharp attack

SLOW: The percussion sound will disappear slowly, producing a more gentle attack

Percussion Slow Time 0127 Decay time of the percussion sound when Percussion Slow is set to SLOW

Percussion Fast Time 0127 Decay time of the percussion sound when Percussion Slow is set to FAST

Percussion Harmonic 2ND, 3RD

2ND: The percussion sound will be the same pitch as the 4 harmonic bar

3RD: The percussion sound will be the same pitch as the 2-2/3 harmonic bar

Percussion Recharge Time 015

Normally, the percussion sound will be added only to the first note of successive notes

played legato

This reproduces the characteristics of the analog circuitry that produced the percussion

sound in tone wheel organs, which caused the percussion sound to be softer when keys

were pressed in quick succession This specifies the characteristics of this analog circuit

Percussion Harmonic Bar Level 0127

The volume of the organ will be reduced if Percussion Soft is set to NORM

This specifies how much the volume will be reduced

Key On Click Level 031 Level of the key-click when a key is pressed

Key Off Click Level 031 Level of the key-click when a key is released

**********************************************************

 

Regards, C

 

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Looks like db harmonics (Not phyical) are there .any audio demos of organs?

 

Also as mentioned above...(besides that you have no physical drawbar faders on the FA series), there is only one SN TW model and FX routing is more limited with one MFX per part. Also switching between upper and lower manuals to adjust harmonic bar levels will NOT be a lot of fun. For live/performance, you'll probably need to save FA preset tones with your harmonic bar settings and then switch between these preset tones manually or use midi program change messages.

 

For audio demo of FA organs, see Dan Fisher's Sweetwater demo...this covers lots of the FA sounds including a few of the organ sounds.

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The "drawbars" on the Integra-7 can be controlled externally, but requires System Exclusive messages, which adds complexity and limits the available controllers that would work. I'm guessing that the FA will be the same. But it seems it can be done.

 

see also: http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=45828

 

[video:youtube]

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Just to be clear...users can still adjust/edit SN TW organ harmonic drawbars directly from the Integra 7 front panel. We will need to confirm this all when the FA Owners Manual is released. x your fingers...

 

 

The "drawbars" on the Integra-7 can be controlled externally, but requires System Exclusive messages, which adds complexity and limits the available controllers that would work. I'm guessing that the FA will be the same. But it seems it can be done.

 

see also: http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=45828

 

[video:youtube]

 

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Just to be clear...users can still adjust/edit SN TW organ harmonic drawbars directly from the Integra 7 front panel. We will need to confirm this all when the FA Owners Manual is released. x your fingers...=

Right, and I would fully expect that the virtual drawbars can be adjusted within the FA itself, just as they can on the Jupiter 50 and 80, and as they can on the RD-700NX. So then the concern would be about what else you might be able to connect to get more immediate or more visceral control, in lieu of the actual dedicated drawfaders of the VR-09.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Agreed...just seems like more hoops and gear. If real-time TW organ AND drawbar/fader control is the priority, might as well go for a VR or other dedicated clonewheel. That said, sysex control via another controller is a valid option to control FA TW organ and then you still get all the other FA bells & whistles including the 2000+ SN acoustic and synth tones.

 

 

Just to be clear...users can still adjust/edit SN TW organ harmonic drawbars directly from the Integra 7 front panel. We will need to confirm this all when the FA Owners Manual is released. x your fingers...=

Right, and I would fully expect that the virtual drawbars can be adjusted within the FA itself, just as they can on the Jupiter 50 and 80, and as they can on the RD-700NX. So then the concern would be about what else you might be able to connect to get more immediate or more visceral control, in lieu of the actual dedicated drawfaders of the VR-09.

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Would the DB-1 from Ocean Beach Digital work?

 

I attempted to use a DB-1 with the TW engine of my JP50, as I had confirmed that the DB-1 worked - via sysex - with the JP80. While the core, sysex numbers assigned for drawbar control are identical between the JP50 and JP80, the DB-1 will not work with the JP50. OB Dave and I tried a few different approaches to get the DB-1 and JP50 to talk to one another, but it just didn't work out. Not sure if the Integra - even having sysex data for the TW engine drawbars (just like the JP50) - would work with a DB-1; same with the FA series. The question is: Even with drawbar sysex info available, does the Integra (and, potentially, FA-xx) actually respond to external sysex commands - like the JP-80, or is it unresponsive - like the JP50.

From analyzing the JP50 drawbar commands using MIDI OX, I was able to confirm that the TW engine will generate the identical, drawbar sysex strings as the JP80; it just won't recognize them from an external controller. I'd make sure that the Integra (and FA instruments) actually respond to external sysex commands for TW - especially if this is critical to performing with the module or keyboard.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I'd make sure that the Integra (and FA instruments) actually respond to external sysex commands for TW

The Integra does... check my post earlier in this thread, there's a youtube video demonstration. So that makes me think that the DB1 should work, and there's something quirky specifically about the JP50. Certainly if you can get the Jupiter 50 to generate them, it *should* receive them (you wouldn't be able to use drawbar changes in a programmed sequence otherwise), so it sounds to me like it's a bug in the 50.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I'd make sure that the Integra (and FA instruments) actually respond to external sysex commands for TW

The Integra does... check my post earlier in this thread, there's a youtube video demonstration. So that makes me think that the DB1 should work, and there's something quirky specifically about the JP50. Certainly if you can get the Jupiter 50 to generate them, it *should* receive them (you wouldn't be able to use drawbar changes in a programmed sequence otherwise), so it sounds to me like it's a bug in the 50.

 

Thanks, Scott. I didn't see the video screen; I need to remember to use the Mercury, or Coast browser when on KC via iPad now - as OS7 does weird things with imbedded videos, etc. in Safari.

 

Anyhow... Yeah, it's likely a bug in the JP50. I updated Ed Diaz from Roland when we spoke, mid-autumn, and let him know about the sysex tests I'd run. As far as he knew - at the time - any upcoming OS updates didn't include bug fixes relating to sysex communication.

 

I suspect that Roland's home base is already looking ahead to the next JP; 3rd quarter 2014 will mark two years since the JP50 release, and - IIRC - close to three years for the JP80. Much as the Integra is an uber-module, and the new FA's look very well done, neither is something I need, rig-wise, at this time. But a new JP - Live Set / Registration backward compatible - would be of interest, especially with front-panel, control upgrades and either full TW remote control capability ( sysex, or better yet, MIDI cc), or draw-sliders.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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