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Best funky elec piano!


I-missRichardTee

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No romper or sampler I've ever tried had the feel of the real thing. I feel like I may go on about it too much here, but the vintage vibe ep is just incredible. For funk, it's got noticeably more bite than my suitcase 88. Both are just incredible though, and the samplers just don't give the same feeling. A real wurli through a wah pedal is pretty incredible too.
Favorite Gear:Vintage Vibe 73 w/MIDI, Microkorg, ipad2 with lotsa apps, VB3, Rhodes 88, Roland VK8, Fantom XR, Brainspawn Forte
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Here's a VERY quick and dirty improv of my Mark I sampleset in the Kronos.

Purgatory Creek Mark I for Kronos

 

Mark V

Purgatory Creek Mark V for Kronos

 

Clav D6 (all pickup settings sampled + release samples)

Purgatory Creek D6 for Kronos

 

All of these are free. I'll put them up against anything out there in the hardware world. The D6 has eight velocity layers and the Mark I/V are 16+.

 

Busch.

 

 

Busch, where can the kronos mark 1 be downloaded??

The demo sounds swwweeeet!!

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A real Rhodes and a real Clav. :idea: When you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherf**ker in the room with your playing, accept no substitutes. :cool:

 

Right on !!!! :)

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

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Here's a VERY quick and dirty improv of my Mark I sampleset in the Kronos.

Purgatory Creek Mark I for Kronos

 

Mark V

Purgatory Creek Mark V for Kronos

 

Clav D6 (all pickup settings sampled + release samples)

Purgatory Creek D6 for Kronos

 

All of these are free. I'll put them up against anything out there in the hardware world. The D6 has eight velocity layers and the Mark I/V are 16+.

 

Busch.

 

 

Busch, where can the kronos mark 1 be downloaded??

The demo sounds swwweeeet!!

 

Busch always does a nice job on Rhodes stuff the Mk1 is one of the best I have heard. I can tell that its not a real Rhodes on the more staccato sections as there are no key off samples to show the strange artefacts one gets on a real Rhodes but it is still sweet!! :thu:

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This is the funkiest EP ...
Sounds great and dig the playing too!

 

Does that have the square-tube resonators? I played one like that once -- it was the worst set-up, beat-up, uneven keys, some of them not working at all, but man did it sound great. It was at a party, the resident band let folks up to jam before they began, and they started off with a killer rendition of Birdland. My hat was off to the keyboard player not only for great playing and a great-sounding instrument, but also his ability to work around its serious flaws.

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I'll chip in on the side of everybody who's already posted saying something similar - there are good Rhodes pianos and bad Rhodes pianos (I've owned a fair number now) - but no emulation can touch a good Rhodes. I have a Nord Stage 2 and I love it for so many of its sounds but in addition to my Nord, I haul a mk1 suitcase 88 to every gig with my band. And not only that, I own two mk1 suitcase 88s - one for gigging, one for studio recording.
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Can sufficient experimenting with tine position.. pick up position. eventually make a so so Rhodes into good rhodes?

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Can sufficient experimenting with tine position.. pick up position. eventually make a so so Rhodes into good rhodes?

 

ask the people at this forum;

 

http://ep-forum.com/epforum/smf/

 

I did various amounts of repair/maintenance/tuning to the 4 different Rhodes I had, with varying degrees of success.

 

the mangiest one I had also had the nicest action and the best sound. the best looking one I doubled my money on, sold it to a guy who was sending it to a friend in Hong Kong. it also had the stiffest action that no amount of tweaking would fix.

 

 

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Can sufficient experimenting with tine position.. pick up position. eventually make a so so Rhodes into good rhodes?

 

Maybe, but not always. I had a Stage 88 that played like crap and sounded like crap. No amount of pickup adjusting, action regulating, or pedestal mods made it in any way enjoyable to play or listen to.

 

Good riddance.

Moe

---

"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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Here's a VERY quick and dirty improv of my Mark I sampleset in the Kronos.

Purgatory Creek Mark I for Kronos

 

Mark V

Purgatory Creek Mark V for Kronos

 

Clav D6 (all pickup settings sampled + release samples)

Purgatory Creek D6 for Kronos

 

All of these are free. I'll put them up against anything out there in the hardware world. The D6 has eight velocity layers and the Mark I/V are 16+.

 

Busch.

 

 

Busch, where can the kronos mark 1 be downloaded??

The demo sounds swwweeeet!!

 

Busch always does a nice job on Rhodes stuff the Mk1 is one of the best I have heard. I can tell that its not a real Rhodes on the more staccato sections as there are no key off samples to show the strange artefacts one gets on a real Rhodes but it is still sweet!! :thu:

 

Thanks guys.

 

Here's a link to the two Rhodes and full D6. With the two Rhodes look for the "Studio Tone" presets. In the Mark I audio example above I used Studio Tone 3. I rethought my EQing and mapping to come up with a clearer tone. The Mark V audio example uses one of the original EQs.

 

http://www.purgatorycreek.com/DL2/PCreekVintage_ver2.zip

 

OF you are correct that I am not using release samples on the Rhodes. The HD-1 engine, while it supports release samples, doesn't do it properly for instruments like APs/EPs. For example, if you hold the sustain pedal down and let the notes die down, when you release the pedal all of the held notes release samples trigger at the attack volume. This is fine for clavs/harpsichords, etc. where you don't use the sustain pedal. This is not that unusual. I don't know of any hardware samplers that handle this properly. The SGX-1 and EP-1 do handle release samples properly. What I've done instead is to fake it a bit. I analyzed the pitch change in the Rhodes release and found the amount of pitch change that occurs (slight bending up). I mimic this using the pitch envelope. You can adjust or remove.

 

Busch.

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Yes it has square resonators. Very unique sound.
Very cool sound too!

I don't know of any hardware samplers that handle this properly.
I did a little experimentation with soundfonts and couldn't find a way that worked for me, either. That's one of the reasons I didn't bother, but the lesser of the reasons (the greater of the reasons being I don't feel a need for them). I could get the release sample to be selected by release velocity (which my keyboard supports, but others do not: they send velocity zero to turn a note off.) But that didn't quite sound right; the volume of a release sample should also be a function of how loud the note is by the time you release it, and I didn't find a way to do that. That said, people use and like release samples, so there must be a good solution.
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OF you are correct that I am not using release samples on the Rhodes. The HD-1 engine, while it supports release samples, doesn't do it properly for instruments like APs/EPs. For example, if you hold the sustain pedal down and let the notes die down, when you release the pedal all of the held notes release samples trigger at the attack volume. This is fine for clavs/harpsichords, etc. where you don't use the sustain pedal. This is not that unusual. I don't know of any hardware samplers that handle this properly. The SGX-1 and EP-1 do handle release samples properly. What I've done instead is to fake it a bit. I analyzed the pitch change in the Rhodes release and found the amount of pitch change that occurs (slight bending up). I mimic this using the pitch envelope. You can adjust or remove.

 

Busch.

 

Busch do you know if its possible to use the Acoustic Piano engine (SGX-1) in the Kronos with your own piano sounds? I could imagine the noises/soundboard resonance would be an awesome thing to use if you could replace the piano samples themselves

 

 

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Can sufficient experimenting with tine position.. pick up position. eventually make a so so Rhodes into good rhodes?

 

Maybe, but not always. I had a Stage 88 that played like crap and sounded like crap. No amount of pickup adjusting, action regulating, or pedestal mods made it in any way enjoyable to play or listen to.

 

Good riddance.

 

Unfortunately true... I had a '76 stage Rhodes when I found my sparkletop. By the time I got the sparkletop set up the way you heard, I tried the same with the '76 piano and could not even approach that sound. Quickly sold the '76 piano.

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I did a little experimentation with soundfonts and couldn't find a way that worked for me, either.

The sfz format supports a lot more release variables than soundfonts. It's also much easier to create sfz files and samplesets because a sfz is simply a text file accompanied by a bunch of wav files that are referenced in the text file.

 

I haven't built a lot of sfzs, but I did take the time to map most of scarbee's wurli samples, including the release samples, and the end result was really good.

Favorite Gear:Vintage Vibe 73 w/MIDI, Microkorg, ipad2 with lotsa apps, VB3, Rhodes 88, Roland VK8, Fantom XR, Brainspawn Forte
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I did a little experimentation with soundfonts and couldn't find a way that worked for me, either.

The sfz format supports a lot more release variables than soundfonts. It's also much easier to create sfz files and samplesets because a sfz is simply a text file accompanied by a bunch of wav files that are referenced in the text file.

 

I haven't built a lot of sfzs, but I did take the time to map most of scarbee's wurli samples, including the release samples, and the end result was really good.

+1. Release samples (and a whole lot of other articulations) are a breeze in SFZ. Very intuitive, quick to set up, and miles ahead of SF2 soundfonts. Pity that Kronos supports SF2 and not SFZ, which is why @BurningBusch had to find a workaround for the release sample bug.

 

- Guru

This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith
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+1. Release samples (and a whole lot of other articulations) are a breeze in SFZ. Very intuitive, quick to set up, and miles ahead of SF2 soundfonts. Pity that Kronos supports SF2 and not SFZ, which is why @BurningBusch had to find a workaround for the release sample bug.

 

- Guru

 

SFZ vs. SF2 is not the issue. The Kronos supports release samples and I can always bring in the release samples as a separate import (they are simply layers anyhow). I can do this with either native Kronos import (supported in Chicken Systems Translator) or using the SF2 convertor in the Kronos. SFZ wouldn't buy me anything. The issue is that the Kronos and hardware samplers in general do not have the kind of control over the release samples/layers needed to work properly with the emulation of AP/EP release noises.

 

Busch.

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I was thinking last night about popping back into this dormant thread just to say that now that I have a few weeks under my belt of auditioning, playing with, choosing and using many of he sounds on my MOXF8 on gigs, while I may not be as much of a connoisseur as some of my fellow forumites, I have gotten a lot of fun and satisfaction playing two of the on-board Rhodes patches, called Crunchy Comp and Hard Vintage, both great for a slightly sweaty rock'n'roll vibe and both feel great on the 8's weighted keyboard. For an 80's FM-type Rhodes I also have been really liking one from the Vintage Keys package called simply enough Classic DX7 EP, and there are lots of other nice ones in this category on the instrument; the VK pack also has some nice Wurli voice's, there's one from there called Wurlitzer 129 Woodie that I'm finding works well on mid-period Beatles songs like "The Night Before" and "Drive My Car."

 

Rich Forman

Yamaha MOXF8, Korg Kronos 2-61, Roland Fantom X7, Ferrofish B4000+ organ module, Roland VR-09, EV ZLX12P, K&M Spider Pro stand,

Yamaha S80, Korg Trinity Plus

 

 

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SFZ vs. SF2 is not the issue. The Kronos supports release samples and I can always bring in the release samples as a separate import (they are simply layers anyhow). I can do this with either native Kronos import (supported in Chicken Systems Translator) or using the SF2 convertor in the Kronos. SFZ wouldn't buy me anything. The issue is that the Kronos and hardware samplers in general do not have the kind of control over the release samples/layers needed to work properly with the emulation of AP/EP release noises.

So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that the release samples are supported in the K, but the implementation is buggy. Fair enough. Still, the fact remains that a proper implementation of the SFZ 2.0 standard in the Kronos would be a painless route to realistic release effects.

 

As it stands, all programming of release samples is lost while importing via SF2 into the K, and then the buggy release has to be re-implemented in the hardware. I've been trying my friend import sounds with release samples into the K, and am facing the same situation.

 

I do hope to see direct SFZ implementation in a future OS update in the K.

 

- Guru

This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith
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