Best funky elec piano!

[I-missRichardTee]

Beat to death, I suppose; but let me put it this way... I did a jam gig tonight, and one of the best players in town sat in... My Mojo impressed him.. so my question is not about B3 emulation. What IS for you, the best, funkiest Rhodes piano for funky R&B playing. If you knew you were not just play another gig... same old same old, but in fact, a local legend was going to be on the bandstand with you- or Stevie Wonder, or name someone you really want to sound your best for.

Which keyboard would you beg borrow steal, or if rich, bring to the gig, to sound your "baddest" , your funkiest. Whether "acid jazz" or TOP, or modern R&B... which keyboard has the most soulful Rhodes... one that barks just right, one that turns you on, because on this imaginary night, you are going to be playing with a hero of yours.

Frankly, I do not have an easy answer to this. If it has a killer Clav, all the better, but to make this very clearly defined, the Rhodes, playing Modern R&B, modern Gospel, Acid jazz, etc, is really the main thrust. Adding a clav or ac piano might already take away from the best Rhodes nominee.

Just as my Mojo, is one of the best B3... I am not going to burden the Mojo, with demanding a comparable AP or Rhodes, etc

[Tobias Åslund]

I would say, without any order: Kurzweil PC3-series, Nord Electro/Stage or Hammond SK-series.

 

I use a Nord Stage 2 sw73 myself and couldn't be happier!

[AnotherScott]

Since Rhodes is the essential thing, and clav just a bonus, it would be preferable to go with a weighted action.

 

I agree about the Kurz EPs. I think the PC3LE8 would be the pick, in terms of being the least expensive version that has the widest range of EP sounds and best action (but other possibilities could be PC3X, PC3K8, Artis, SP5-8, SP4-8; all good for EP, but either more expensive than the PC3LE8, or with fewer EP variations or lesser action).

 

From Yamaha, I'd check out the CP4 (by reputation; I haven't played one yet). From Korg, I'd look at the Kronos 73 or 88, or SV-1 73 or 88 (with the free downloadable soundpack installed). (Also check the thread at https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2468189 )

 

That would be my short list.

[Dana.]

Which keyboard would you beg borrow steal, or if rich, bring to the gig, to sound your "baddest" , your funkiest. Whether "acid jazz" or TOP, or modern R&B... which keyboard has the most soulful Rhodes... one that barks just right, one that turns you on, because on this imaginary night, you are going to be playing with a hero of yours.

A real Rhodes and a real Clav. When you absolutely, positively got to kill every motherf**ker in the room with your playing, accept no substitutes.

[Outkaster]

Everyone says and always said the Nords did it the best.

[Tobias Åslund]

Everyone says and always said the Nords did it the best.

Everyone? Always...?

[DanL]

The Nord sounds might not be the overall best as far as layers of samples but they are more "organic" sounding to me and they really cut thru the mix. Playing the Nord EP's from my weighted S70XS is a very pleasurable experience.

[Outkaster]

Everyone says and always said the Nords did it the best.

Everyone? Always...?

 

Yes everyone did and always. I know there were tons of arguments that I was part of that started on Harmony Central before people migrated over here. Nords can do no wrong.....

[Delaware Dave]

The Nord is the only keyboard I know that supports all of the Clav settings. That is why in the "dream keyboard rig" topic I chose the E4.

[DanL]

If they had the key release on the sample it'd be about perfect, because tonally, it's pretty sweet.

[richforman]

Yeah I played that SV-1 at GC and it was pretty awesome for Rhodes. Anyway I don't know if it could claim the top spot or even be entered into the competition, but on my humble new MOXF8, two third-party sound sets I added, the Chick Corea Mark V set that comes in Yamaha's Premium Collection, and the Vintage Keys bank I purchased from motifator.com (using voices made out of the built-in samples on the instrument, no additional waveforms needed) both have some very tasty Rhodes and diverse Rhodes patches that I can't wait to break out at some gigs.

[DanL]

I have the Vintage Keys set on my S70XS. There are some nice EP's on there, but they are all really clean sounding. I like them for a lot of things, parts in songs, ballads with pads behind it, things like that, but I tend to gravitate to the Nord when I really want to play a straight up "Rhodes". I have a Master setup on the Yamaha that calls up dual keyboard layer, that gives me Rhodes on the Yamaha keyboard and B3 on the Stage keyboard.

 

I'd love to hear that Chick Rhodes in person.

 

Rich, I used an SV1 at a gig before, one of the bands had one and we combined my Nord and the SV1. The Rhodes didn't do anything for me. Having the effects right there is nice, similar to the Nord in that way. The sound itself just didn't work for me.

[AnotherScott]

Yeah I played that SV-1 at GC and it was pretty awesome for Rhodes. Anyway I don't know if it could claim the top spot or even be entered into the competition, but on my humble new MOXF8, two third-party sound sets I added

Good point about the ability to add other Rhodes sounds to the MOXF8 which could make it more of a contender. Some people like the Neo Soul libraries.

 

Rich, I used an SV1 at a gig before, one of the bands had one and we combined my Nord and the SV1. The Rhodes didn't do anything for me. Having the effects right there is nice, similar to the Nord in that way. The sound itself just didn't work for me.

A lot of people found the SV1 EPs more to their liking with the downloadable soundpak upgrades. Unfortunately, that makes it a little tough to really evaluate one unless you own it!

[JeffLearman]

I prefer Scarbee Rhodes to Nord, if that's an option. But I'd definitely bring my Mark I.

 

The Nord clav is the best I've played (and I prefer it to Scarbee), with only one flaw, which is the release is too long.

 

That said, any top flight player will make great music with pretty much anything put before them, even if it's clearly inferior. Of course, I understand we want to make them grin.

[AnotherScott]

I prefer Scarbee Rhodes to Nord, if that's an option. But I'd definitely bring my Mark I.

Ah yes... If this is a one-off shot to impress, first/best choice would be to see if you could rent the real thing! And then, yes, there's also the VST route.

 

The Nord clav is the best I've played (and I prefer it to Scarbee), with only one flaw, which is the release is too long.

In that respect, the best feeling board I've played for clav is the KingKorg. It can be set with a low release point on the keys, and that makes a noticeable difference in getting the clav to "snap." I'm not the pickiest person about clav sounds but I found its internal clav sound to be fine... if you didn't, you could also use that action to trigger a clav sound housed elsewhere. There is a trade-off though... set that way, the KK doesn't send velocity. Clav is not as velocity-dependent a sound as, say, acoustic piano, but it's still an unfortunate trade-off. It's always something. Despite the trade-off, I still found it to be an enjoyable "clav" to play. (And on edit, trying it again... okay, you really would want to trigger some other clav sound if you did this. ;-) I do like the quick release, though.)

[ITGITC]

 

 

If they had the key release on the sample it'd be about perfect, because tonally, it's pretty sweet.

 

Is this as simple as adding the key-release samples to the current Nord Clav sample set?

 

IOW, is this remedied simply with a new sample and existing hardware in the NE3/4?

 

I wonder how much larger this will make the sample file. Storage is limited in the NE3.

 

Tom

 

[NeedMoreBass]

I owned a PC3K8, Korg SV-1, and Kronos 88, all at the same time and was able to compare them side by side. The Kronos was by far the best of the 3 IMO for the Rhodes/Clav thing with the Kurz being the next best. With the recent update to the CX3 engine the Kronos is now a major contender in the clonewheel category also.

[Dave Weiser]

Beat to death, I suppose; but let me put it this way... I did a jam gig tonight, and one of the best players in town sat in... My Mojo impressed him.. so my question is not about B3 emulation. What is IS for you the best funkiest Rhodes piano for funky R&B playing. If you knew you were not just play another gig... same old same old, but in fact, a local legend was going to be on the bandstand with you- or Stevie Wonder, or name someone you really want to sound your best for.

Which keyboard would you beg borrow steal, or if rich, bring to the gig, to sound your "baddest" , your funkiest. Whether "acid jazz" or TOP, or modern R&B... which keyboard has the most soulful Rhodes... one that barks just right, one that turns you on, because on this imaginary night, you are going to be playing with a hero of yours.

Frankly, I do not have an easy answer to this. If it has a killer Clav, all the better, but to make this very clearly defined, the Rhodes, playing Modern R&B, modern Gospel, Acid jazz, etc, is really the main thrust. Adding a clav or ac piano might already take away from the best Rhodes nominee.

Just as my Mojo, is one of the best B3... I am not going to burden the Mojo, with demanding a comparable AP or Rhodes, etc

 

In an older thread did you not mention that you *didn't* care for the sound of a real Rhodes? I am confused.

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

If they had the key release on the sample it'd be about perfect, because tonally, it's pretty sweet.

 

Is this as simple as adding the key-release samples to the current Nord Clav sample set?

 

IOW, is this remedied simply with a new sample and existing hardware in the NE3/4?

 

I wonder how much larger this will make the sample file. Storage is limited in the NE3.

The Nord harpischord triggers a sample on release, so that tells us at least that the Nord architecture does support such a thing. And I would think that release samples would be very small.

[bluzeyone]

I'd go for comfort. Something I could navigate through very fast with confidence. Something that I was familiar with velocity, cut off, eq, ect. Id go with Yamaha motor. If I had the cabbage though I'd bring a fender twin amp and a wah pedal too. Being comfortable and confident in the skin your in will make you not only be the best you, but can make you reach new heights.

[ITGITC]

The Nord harpischord triggers a sample on release, so that tells us at least that the Nord architecture does support such a thing. And I would think that release samples would be very small.

 

Exactly! The harpsichord is a great example!

 

And since the clavinet samples are mono, with no string resonance samples (of course), the additional release samples should be small.

 

So... What's the hold-up, Clavia?

 

 

 

 

[burningbusch]

Here's a VERY quick and dirty improv of my Mark I sampleset in the Kronos.

Purgatory Creek Mark I for Kronos

 

Mark V

Purgatory Creek Mark V for Kronos

 

Clav D6 (all pickup settings sampled + release samples)

Purgatory Creek D6 for Kronos

 

All of these are free. I'll put them up against anything out there in the hardware world. The D6 has eight velocity layers and the Mark I/V are 16+.

 

Busch.

 

 

[rickzjamm]

Kurzweil for EP.

Actually Kurzy sonic wizard designer David Weiser designed a killer EP for me on the PC3K7 & it cuts through my bands guitar saturated songs like a knife. Very Chick Corea "Light as a Feather" sounding... sweeeeeet.

[AnotherScott]

All of these are free. I'll put them up against anything out there in the hardware world. The D6 has eight velocity layers and the Mark I/V are 16+.

Oh right! I suggested the Kronos as a good board to consider for its internal EPs, but (like the MOXF mentioned earlier), the ability to load other samples opens up more possibilities... like Busch's!

[Dana.]

Here's a VERY quick and dirty improv of my Mark I sampleset in the Kronos.

Purgatory Creek Mark I for Kronos

 

Mark V

Purgatory Creek Mark V for Kronos

 

Clav D6 (all pickup settings sampled + release samples)

Purgatory Creek D6 for Kronos

 

All of these are free. I'll put them up against anything out there in the hardware world. The D6 has eight velocity layers and the Mark I/V are 16+.

 

Busch.

 

[I-missRichardTee]

Dave Weiser.. hi.. a wordsmith, I am not. if you say I said I do not like a real Rhodes.. what I can say, I do not recall the context. I will start "fresh". I am a bit confused about Rhodes, for two major reasons- some real Rhodes suck, just plain suck. Rarer ones, were to die for

Second reason is, there are SO many attempts at creating the Rhodes, that it gets confusing, when roland Yammie Kurz etc create their version(s) of the Rhodes, which includes the hopped up Dyno Rhodes, the DX7 iterations.

 

I liked my PC88 Rhodes... it just lacked the barking thing.

 

Then there is this.. any great acoustic instrument very naturally has many faces, many timbral aspects to it's sound. It can be tenderly whispering, to ferociously barking like a junk yard dog, and all manner of in-between. A great instrument does this - and that is why a great Rhodes ( or great anything ) is rare. The ones I did not like, lacked the timbral ( made that word up ) breath.

 

manufacturer's try to cop part of that timbral depth or breath- it is obviously difficult to create that scope, either acoustically or digitally.

So, yes, some Rhodes to suck, because they are so to speak, Johnny one note, where timbre is concerned.

This is an aspect of instrument creation, that ought to be seriously looked at in future. but I digressed, didn't I.

 

You not only want so to speak a triple or septuple strike Rhodes, but you have to LIKE each of those layers! Not easy, is it?

My Man D Bon says, the real thing. but my old band leader had FIVE 88 suitcase Rhodes in a studio to record. Why, because he was searching for not merely a Rhodes, but a great Rhodes.

[yorgatron]

http://i.imgur.com/sYRfvWL.jpg

[DanL]

yorgatron, the Rhodes sound sucks in that thing!

[Dave Weiser]

Dave Weiser.. hi.. a wordsmith, I am not. if you say I said I do not like a real Rhodes.. what I can say, I do not recall the context. I will start "fresh". I am a bit confused about Rhodes, for two major reasons- some real Rhodes suck, just plain suck. Rarer ones, were to die for

Second reason is, there are SO many attempts at creating the Rhodes, that it gets confusing, when roland Yammie Kurz etc create their version(s) of the Rhodes, which includes the hopped up Dyno Rhodes, the DX7 iterations.

 

I liked my PC88 Rhodes... it just lacked the barking thing.

 

Then there is this.. any great acoustic instrument very naturally has many faces, many timbral aspects to it's sound. It can be tenderly whispering, to ferociously barking like a junk yard dog, and all manner of in-between. A great instrument does this - and that is why a great Rhodes ( or great anything ) is rare. The ones I did not like, lacked the timbral ( made that word up ) breath.

 

manufacturer's try to cop part of that timbral depth or breath- it is obviously difficult to create that scope, either acoustically or digitally.

So, yes, some Rhodes to suck, because they are so to speak, Johnny one note, where timbre is concerned.

This is an aspect of instrument creation, that ought to be seriously looked at in future. but I digressed, didn't I.

 

You not only want so to speak a triple or septuple strike Rhodes, but you have to LIKE each of those layers! Not easy, is it?

My Man D Bon says, the real thing. but my old band leader had FIVE 88 suitcase Rhodes in a studio to record. Why, because he was searching for not merely a Rhodes, but a great Rhodes.

 

I just re-read my post.... Sorry, I didn't mean to come off sounding like such a d*ck!

 

There was a thread a few months ago where a few of us were helping you chase down the Rhodes sound you were seeking. At one point I asked "well what are some iconic recordings of real Rhodes sounds that you'd like in a keyboard?" I believe you responded saying that you'd had bad experiences with real Rhodes and might prefer a "keyboard" EP sound over the real thing.

(My memory could easily be clouded by years of bong resin buildup though so forgive me if this is off.)

 

This kind of preference wouldn't be so out of the ordinary - look at other keys sounds that we've grown to love, in some cases more than the "real thing" they were intended to emulate.

The B3 was originally intended to emulate a pipe organ.

The Mellotron was meant to provide realistic orchestral strings before the days of sampling.

Both are now iconic instrument sounds in their own rite, each with tons of character that players have grown to love.

 

I don't want to hear Green Onions with a pipe organ and I really don't want to hear Close to the Edge with squeaky clean sampled strings.

 

The good news with EPs is you now have a ton of choices available on the menu. At Kurz we tried to present a wide range, everything from beat-up clunky realistic presets to ones that sounded like ROMplers and stage pianos of the mid 90s and some that were in between, plus a few deliciously cheesy FM EPs. I think most manufacturers take this approach now.

 

 

[JeffLearman]

And I would think that release samples would be very small.

Correct. Figure 1/4 sec for 88 notes (not that any clav ever had 88 notes ...) and that's 3MB. Of course, we can shrink that dramatically -- first, clav release is probably less than 1/8 sec, and we can probably get away with sampling every 4th note. If so, that cuts it to under 400KB.

 

But IMHO, just a faster release would do all that's really necessary. I mean a REALLY fast release. That's what a real clav sounds like to me. I've never been a fan of release samples anyway. But the Nord's mushy slow release is just all kinds of wrong. Fortunately it only matters for certain kinds of riffs.

I just re-read my post.... Sorry, I didn't mean to come off sounding like such a d*ck!

You didn't sound anything like a duck to me. No quacking was perceived.