Caevan O’Shite Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Brian Wampler at Wampler Pedals has come up with a great all-analog pedal for emulating the chiming to "blizzard of nails" tones and compressed feel of classic Vox AC30 and AC15 amps, which he'd named the Ace Thirty. ____ [video:youtube] Apparently Vox has threatened him with a lawsuit over the name "Ace Thirty". Is it just me, or is that lame and just plain wrong? I don't think that Vox has a leg to stand on, but the cost of fighting the litigation is enough to practically force Wampler to give in and change the pedal's name. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 The Ace Thirty is killer. Played around with it in the shop using P90s into the Ace Thirty into a Boogie Express 5:50 Plus. Al the sound without the bad transformers LOL! "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p90jr Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 That's too close as far as trademarked names and the way businesses think. It's obviously counting on riding on the association and reputation of the legendary trademarked similar name, in fact that's specifically what it's meant to imitate. So, I think they have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Unwarranted. In no way does this product infringe Vox's trademark rights IMHO. I bet there are a bazillion products from hydraulic brakes to tree trimmers to medical devices which have the designation "AC30". Crap like this has a lot more potential for very bad publicity & distaste for the corporate brand than could ever be equaled by whatever 'protection' Vox feels their amp needs. Utterly stupid corporate policy. Isn't the Vox brand name owned now by Korg? Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 The Ace Thirty is killer. Played around with it in the shop using P90s into the Ace Thirty into a Boogie Express 5:50 Plus. Al the sound without the bad transformers LOL! One of the best clean-tones I ever experienced was playing the P-90 equipped Les Paul that I used to have through a vintage Vox AC50 and matching 2x12 cab, all in their original chrome head and cab stand. What a tone! Too expensive, and I wouldn't want the likely and expensive reliability hassles, but upon hitting the first chord, an open "D", my jaw dropped and I simply said, "Wow... !!" Another guy in the shop replied, "YEAH, 'wow'!" Unwarranted. In no way does this product infringe Vox's trademark rights IMHO. I bet there are a bazillion products from hydraulic brakes to tree trimmers to medical devices which have the designation "AC30". Crap like this has a lot more potential for very bad publicity & distaste for the corporate brand than could ever be equaled by whatever 'protection' Vox feels their amp needs. Utterly stupid corporate policy. Much agreed. Lawyers keeping themselves in work and money. Anybody who wanted a "real" Vox amp- and could afford to buy one- would NOT be steered away from Vox by a pedal, even one as good as this. Vox cannot be losing sales due to this. If anything, it builds the brand mystique associated with Vox by increasing and renewing awareness of the Vox legacy in classic recorded music. Vox and their potential customers would be much better served if, instead of harassing someone who simply met a market demand and did it well, they put resources into improving the reliability of their amps while also getting as close as possible to the tones that their vintage '60s amps and cabs put them on the map with. There are other makers who have done just that, putting out improved, upgraded Vox AC-type amps that deliver on the tone and feel. I have a good friend who loved the Vox AC30TB sound, but after repeated major failures, he eventually sold his Vox AC30TBX and bought a used Cornell AC30TB-style head- which has never, ever had any problems. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryz Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Vox made a guitar back in the 60's called the Vox Ace. I'm guessing that's their claim to fame since the pedal emulates a Vox guitar/amp product. I would like to see an article on this subject so we could read more about the threatened action. If you google on "Ace 30" you'll come up with an Ace Hardware socket set, an Ace 30 motor home and Wamblers' pedal, but you won't find an Ace 30 with the Vox name on it...at least I haven't so far... Take care, Larryz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Unwarranted. In no way does this product infringe Vox's trademark rights IMHO. I bet there are a bazillion products from hydraulic brakes to tree trimmers to medical devices which have the designation "AC30". Crap like this has a lot more potential for very bad publicity & distaste for the corporate brand than could ever be equaled by whatever 'protection' Vox feels their amp needs. Utterly stupid corporate policy. Isn't the Vox brand name owned now by Korg? But Joyo with no remorse total rips off the Tech 21 Liverpool (with shittier construction and parts) then names the Joyo AC Tone and gets away with it. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 FWIW if you want a vintage Vox I would check to see if it uses Woden transformers. Vox used all sorts of transformers over the years. The Wodens seem to have the best failure rate. Hate to say it because my family is originally from the UK but ..... Asian Voxi are better built. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 It isn't a cut & dried case. ...but I may be buying one of these soon. Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 It isn't a cut & dried case. ...but I may be buying one of these soon. Wait, wait, TC Electronic is coming out with one... Seriously, if you go to Wampler's Facebook 'page and enter your suggestion for a new name for the pedal, you might win the last one made with the Ace Thirty name on it... Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Ahhh...I don't do Facebook. Too bad, I could have some fun with it. Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Ahhh...I don't do Facebook. Too bad, I could have some fun with it. IF you came up with with a real bang-up name for it! I threw a few at 'em, but I'm not so sure any of 'em are winners; it's a tough nut to crack, especially as "Ace Thirty" was such a good one to begin with! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I enjoy anagrams....Ace Thirty could become Earth City Heart City Chart Yeti Arty Tech I The Icy Rat Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Or maybe a British history reference...call it the SFHT, for WW I British Ace Samuel Frederick Henry Tompson, who had 30 confirmed victories. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Frederick_Henry_Thompson Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russclan Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 They'll give Wampler a hard time, but they're ok w/this (and the older, "full" version)? Carl Martin AC Tone I guess it's possible that CM may have paid (or is paying) Vox, or maybe because CM is in Europe and Vox can't touch them maybe? Doesn't matter, either way, it's b.s. My ears are haunted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p90jr Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Vox has a trademark on the term "AC 30" in the realm of musical products. "AC(E) 30" wouldn't clear that trademark anymore than "Deluxe Reverber" or "JCMP 800" would. What's confusing the market a bit is that there's so many small boutique shops making stuff that flies under the radar and don't do enough business to warrant a lawsuit until they get enough attention. There's a couple of lawyers here, right? I help a friend's amp company out with graphics and they just had to toss out 1000 silkscreened control panels because another amp company beat them to the trademark for a new amp model name by just a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Visual Sound GarageTone has firmer grounds to sue Vox over the Vox Tone Garage line... don'tcha think? For those familiar with electric guitars and tube-amps, "Ace" cleverly alludes to but does not copy the letters "A C" (an acronym?). It's not the 'A C E 30', nor the 'AC Thirty', 'ACThirty', 'Acey 30', or 'ACE30', it's the "Ace Thirty". It's a pedal, not an amplifier. No one who was NOT already very familiar with electric guitars and tube-amps would make the connection, let alone be confused or misled. Anybody who was already very familiar with electric guitars and tube-amps, who wanted a "real" Vox amp- and could afford to buy one- would NOT be steered away from Vox or confused by the Wampler Ace Thirty pedal, even one as good as this. Vox cannot be losing sales due to this. If anything, it builds the brand mystique associated with Vox by increasing and renewing awareness of the Vox legacy in classic recorded music. Vox and their potential customers would be much better served if, instead of harassing someone who simply met a market demand and did it well, they put resources into improving the reliability of their amps while also getting as close as possible to the tones that their vintage '60s amps and cabs put them on the map with. There are other makers who have done just that, putting out improved, upgraded Vox AC-type amps that deliver on the tone and feel. I have a good friend who loved the Vox AC30TB sound, but after repeated major failures, he eventually sold his Vox AC30TBX and bought a used Cornell AC30TB-style head- which has never, ever had any problems. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Vox and their potential customers would be much better served if, instead of harassing someone who simply met a market demand and did it well, they put resources into improving the reliability of their amps while also getting as close as possible to the tones that their vintage '60s amps and cabs put them on the map with. Agreed, but its hard to tell someone not to sue. ..at least, and have them actually LISTEN to you. Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p90jr Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 you guys are coming from some emotional argument place, not a legal one... There are no other music gear things allowed to be called Stratocaster, Telecaster, Bassman, etc... the companies trademark the names within the area of music gear, and sue to protect it... all of them. So Hamer can make an Explorer but can't call it an Explorer, etc. Welcome to capitalism. If VisualSound was smart enough to trademark the term "GarageTone" then they could sue Vox... unless those two words were ruled too ubiquitous and common to be trademarked by anyone at that late of a date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 jAyCee Flirty... Guitar Speak Podcast www.guitarspeakpodcast.libsyn.com https://www.facebook.com/guitarspeakpodcast www.itunes.apple.com/au/podcast/guitar-speak-podcast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 you guys are coming from some emotional argument place, not a legal one... I don't think so. There are no other music gear things allowed to be called Stratocaster, Telecaster, Bassman, etc... the companies trademark the names within the area of music gear, and sue to protect it... all of them. So Hamer can make an Explorer but can't call it an Explorer, etc. Correct, & Wampler can't call his pedal the "AC-30". So he didn't, he called it the "Ace Thirty". Which is as different from Vox's trademark as Stratoblaster, Telemaster, & Bassdude are from Fender's trademarked names. Welcome to capitalism. I think it has little to do with capitalism & a lot to do with defining how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Except that non-identical names can be deemed to be too close. It's called "trademark dilution," and it's covered under the FTDA. Now, the burden of proof is on the party claiming their trademark has been diluted, but that may not be as big a deal to a defendant who faces the prospect of possibly defending themselves in Federal district court, a federal appeal, and the Supreme Court. It's often cheaper to simply change the name of your product after a C&D letter and a consultation with an attorney about the strength of the case. (It's allllll fact based.) So a lot of these cases fizzle very quickly, depending on the economic health of the respective parties... Not always, though- sometimes, the little guys fight back. Victoria's Secret sued Victor's Secret and got them to change their name to Victor's Little Secret. This wasn't good enough for Victoria's Secret, so legal wrangling continued. However, VLS won in the Supreme Court- the new name was permissible. Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fraser Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 It's worth noting here that MOTU, not a big corporation, but certainly a larger entity than Brian Wampler's pedal enterprise, has an amp emulator plug in called the "Ace 30" with graphics which are a fairly precise copy of the look of a Vox amplifier. Perhaps the implication here is that Vox only picks on little guys it knows it can bully with impunity. Scott Fraser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Or it could also be they're ramping up to sue a bunch of folks, and MOTU is on the list. ...or MOTU has an agreement/special relationship with Vox. ...or they don't know MOTU (I don't, FWIW). ... Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 It's worth noting here that MOTU, not a big corporation, but certainly a larger entity than Brian Wampler's pedal enterprise, has an amp emulator plug in called the "Ace 30" with graphics which are a fairly precise copy of the look of a Vox amplifier. Perhaps the implication here is that Vox only picks on little guys it knows it can bully with impunity. Mm-hmn... Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiC Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 As an Air Force Retiree, I'm going to write to the Lockheed Aircraft Corp and request that they sue VOX for infringement upon the name of their AC 130 Hercules! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/C-130_Hercules_10.jpg "Treat your wife with honor, respect, and understanding as you live together so that you can pray effectively as husband and wife." 1 Peter 3:7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 [font:Comic Sans MS]"C - One - Thirty rollin' down the strip; Airborn Daddy gonna take a li'l trip... !"[/font] As an Air Force Retiree, I'm going to write to the Lockheed Aircraft Corp and request that they sue VOX for infringement upon the name of their AC 130 Hercules! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/C-130_Hercules_10.jpg Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyalcatraz Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Tangentially, I was always a fan of some of our less photogenic aircraft- the F4 Phantoms, the A10 Thunderbolt, the F117a... Because, even of they weren't pretty, they were pretty effective. Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx http://murphysmusictx.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiC Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 [font:Comic Sans MS]"C - One - Thirty rollin' down the strip; Airborn Daddy gonna take a li'l trip... !"[/font] "Treat your wife with honor, respect, and understanding as you live together so that you can pray effectively as husband and wife." 1 Peter 3:7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiC Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Tangentially, I was always a fan of some of our less photogenic aircraft- the F4 Phantoms, the A10 Thunderbolt, the F117a... Because, even of they weren't pretty, they were pretty effective. Especially the "tank killer", the A-10 Warthog! "Treat your wife with honor, respect, and understanding as you live together so that you can pray effectively as husband and wife." 1 Peter 3:7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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