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Keyboard w/Midi capabilties VS Dedicated Keyboard Controller


CaptainUnderpant

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I am trying to get my two board live rig (Yamaha S90XS & Korg X50) up running with the Korg X50 used as a MIDI controller for VST's run through Cantabile (64bit).

 

I have the Korg X50 working and able to play my one VST (OP-X II 32bit), however when mapping the Master Output (volume) to one of the Korg knobs or other various control devices, it didn't control the volume but instead altered the sound of the VST in some other weird way. I was able to map one of the Yamaha sliders to the volume of the VST host, just to test the method, and that did work.

 

My basic question is: other than the additional controls of a dedicated controller what are the advantages of using a dedicated MIDI controller keyboard, rather than a keyboard with MIDI capability, like the Korg X50?

 

One additional note: The mapped items did not show up in Cantabile as already mapped, so there is no way to delete the item. Not sure why existing mapping didn't show.

Yamaha S90XS, Studiologic VMk-161 Organ

Small/powerful (i7, 32GB, M.2 SSD) PC controlled by 10" Touch Screen

Cantabile, Ravenscroft 275, Keyscape, OPX-II, Omnisphere 2, VB3, Chris Hein Horns, etc.

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I have yet to find a keyboard with MIDI with even 1/3 the capability of my dedicated MIDI controller. I'm spoiled by my Kurzweil MIDIBoard.

...except nobody really makes a controller with the sophistication of the MIDIBoard anymore. Most controllers today are budget devices, and the boards with the most MIDI capabilities are the workstations.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Don't know the midi capabilities of the MIDIBoard, but both Kurzweil PC series and Casio PX-5S are capable multizone controllers.

Yes. Though again, they are not soundless controllers.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The soundless controller market is dominated by budget devices. While some of these controllers provide sophisticated controls / templates for software instruments, and a few of the higher priced models do have very playable actions, virtually none are performance controllers built like a Kurz MIDIBoard, or Roland A-Series controller. And a Roland A-70/90 from 15 years ago is rather limited for software instrument control.

The most promising, comprehensive controller I've 'seen' is the new, Physis K-Series; the K4 has 88 keys, the K5, 76 keys. These appear to be the perfect marriage of a zoned, stage controller with a multi-slider/knob/button software controller. I think that the Physis K's have finally been released in Europe. When I inquired about North American distribution, I received a slightly positive email from a distributor on the east coast - indicating a presence at January NAMM, and planned US / Canada sales channel for sometime in 2014.

 

In the meantime, if a comprehensive live / studio controller is what's needed right now, I'd likely go with a used, Kurz PC3 or a new PC3K7 - if budget allows. It's the only keyboard I'm aware of that covers much of the Physis K5 territory - though it does have an extensive, onboard sound engine - which costs bigger $$$$.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The quality of answers that one gets in this forum is usually very high, and so I'm a bit surprised to see that none of the answers above are even *closely* relevant the OP's question:

 

My basic question is: other than the additional controls of a dedicated controller what are the advantages of using a dedicated MIDI controller keyboard, rather than a keyboard with MIDI capability, like the Korg X50

 

Quick and straightforward answer: No difference whatsoever. Zilch. Nada.

 

Note that the OP's context involves controlling VSTs, not hardware modules of the 1980s. Which is a completely different ballgame altogether. It also renders most of the opinions above irrelevant to the OP... :poke: :wink:

 

But I get where the posters are coming from. To someone who's cut his teeth with MIDI in the 1980s, a 'good controller' typically has 16 zones with independent controls for each, and lots of flexibility in setup.

 

However, host software like the OP's turns *any* damn keyboard into a 16, 32, or even more zoned controller, has unthinkably more routing flexibility than any hardware board, and is much more easier to setup, and recall in a live context! In fact, it makes much more sense to keep the zone/patch setup in the host software, and keep the controller 'dumb' ( klonk for a recent explanation).

 

To the OP:

I don't use Cantabile anymore, but have used it a lot in the past to do the kind of mappings you're describing. I strongly recommend using a Midi Monitor, like this one, to see what each of the knobs/sliders/keys/pedals in your hardware is actually sending. It helped me learn how MIDI controls actually work, and made me stop looking for gremlins to pin the blame on...!

 

I remember that you can view each mapping in Cantabile in terms of CC number, channel, controller, etc. Once you get the MIDI monitor working, you can compare the output with what is displayed in the mapping, and even filter out unwanted CCs going to the plugin. Which is obviously what is happening in your case.

 

- Guru

This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith
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I agree with AG that given the power and flexibility of current hosts like Cantabile, Forte and MainStage you are better served by using the host to organise zones, layers and splits. The Axiom controller I use supports zones and multi channels but I don't use this feature. I just want midi cc from every item on the controller.

 

However AG immediately above your post on the other thread Busch explains how he uses the controllers zoning capacity and a different channel to control different VST's hosted in Ableton live.

 

Two different approaches but if you were starting from scratch now easier to use the host to do these tasks and consider the other option if this approach doesn't work for you.

MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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There is a huge difference in using hardware multizone control surface keyboard and trying to twerk with software in the middle of a live performance. Especially if you need to do zonal crossfading, punching zones in and out, etc.... While playing.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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OP asked about live performance, and I wouldn't use the typical USB powered plastic "controller keyboard" (with no midi preset send capability) to hold my jock strap.

Moe

---

"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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OP asked about live performance, and I wouldn't use the typical USB powered plastic "controller keyboard" (with no midi preset send capability) to hold my jock strap.

 

^^^

THIS

 

AG, I agree that instrument and control routing software can do amazing things, but for live, stage application the OP needs hardware controls that can cover the necessary bases.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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There is a huge difference in using hardware multizone control surface keyboard and trying to twerk with software in the middle of a live performance. Especially if you need to do zonal crossfading, punching zones in and out, etc.... While playing.
twerk (maybe NSFW)

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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One issue I've encountered using workstations as controllers is how they handle bank messages compared to what you're trying to control. A true MiDI controller will let you specify what to send for PC, CC0, and CC32. A workstation typically has it's own implementation to select its internal sounds, and it can be a challenge to find a corresponding internal patch that sends the bank messages you really want. Doesn't apply to all workstations - some are more flexible than others.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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OP asked about live performance, and I wouldn't use the typical USB powered plastic "controller keyboard" (with no midi preset send capability) to hold my jock strap.

AG, I agree that instrument and control routing software can do amazing things, but for live, stage application the OP needs hardware controls that can cover the necessary bases.

Guys, no disrespect intended, but you're still missing the OP's context, by a mile. If you read beyond the thread title, he's actually not asking for a comparison between keyboards/dedicated controllers.

 

He's got a specific mapping that didn't work, and he's wondering whether a dedicated controller will do the job better than his M-50. It won't. Basically, the OP's asking us to rule out gremlins in non-dedicated controllers.

 

Allan, Moe, and Dan - OT aside, this is where you're technically mistaken. Yes, for live playing, you need hardware controls - buttons / scroll knobs, etc. to recall presets, or increment the next patch.

 

However with laptop/VSTs:

  • Said buttons or knobs don't need to be physically located ON a given controller! I use the buttons and knobs on my small 32-key Arturia Factory controller to switch between the dozens of multi-zone patches I have on my Casio CDP - which has no useable buttons/knobs itself. Moe, you can replace my Casio with a Kawai VPC. No plastic, no USB, but also no preset buttons/ knobs/zones. But helluva great action, build quality and stage presence...! :poke:
  • Said buttons/knobs don't have to be dedicated "preset" switches. You can use anything that sends MIDI CC (doesn't even have to be PC messages, Dan!). So you can add something like a Korg NanoKontrol - slim, sleek, inconspicuous - on top of ANY keyboard - and presto, you've got preset selection.

Basically, a live laptop/VST situation allows your rig to be truly 'modular'. You have the freedom to choose your controllers - dedicated/internal sounds, doesnt matter - based solely upon physical considerations. Action, size, weight, build quality, etc. Don't worry about how many zones, whether they have buttons/knobs, etc. Just make sure at least one of your controllers in the rig has a bunch of buttons, knobs, sliders, etc.

 

Guys, having a laptop/VST thing live involves a whole new way of designing and setting up your keyboard rig, compared to hardware. But the live workflow of playing remains the same as it was 20-30 years ago - you still need buttons/knobs/footswitches for switching presets...! You're just not constrained that all those have to be in the same keyboard. That actually opens up the entire market of choices to you.

 

- Guru

This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith
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I thought Moe was perfectly on topic. The OP comes to a pro keyboard forum and wants advice on live performance gear. That plastic stuff is junk.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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Thank you all for your input. I feel very fortunate to have this much banter going back and forth on this topic. It has greatly helped me in figuring out what direction to take.

 

I thought Moe was perfectly on topic. The OP comes to a pro keyboard forum and wants advice on live performance gear. That plastic stuff is junk.

The Korg X50 is indeed a cheap piece of plastic. It is not something I enjoy playing. The Yamaha S90XS has a nice keybed, even my unweighted Korg O1/W has a quality bed. But that is neither here nor there.

 

What would have been helpful to know is where I am at hardware / knowledge wise and where I would like to get to hardware / knowledge wise. Without this background, I can see how many replies missed the mark. Ashville Guru, however, you hit the mark with precision, and I thank you, again, for your detailed replies and pointing me in the right direction.

 

I am in a Rush Tribute Band and would like to improve upon the sounds that I have at my disposal. I was pointed in the direction of the Oberheim OP-X II VST, which had a "Camera Eye" synth sound that blew me out of the water for its accuracy. To incorporate this Oberheim VST, I was going to use my Korg X50, as a temporary stop gap, through a somewhat decent laptop, and build a live VST rig. The problem has been that I have never used this type of equipment, I am not aware of all of the hardware possibilities, and while very enthusiastic about the depth of capabilities with Soft Synth's, I don't quite yet know how it will be best for me to "Skin the Cat". It did appear that the Korg X50 was acting a little "Wonky" and wasn't sure if a dedicated MIDI controller was required.

 

I know that the Korg X50 might not be the best choice. However, developing my workflow first will be smarter than just running out and purchasing a new Midi Keyboard Controller.

 

To the OP:

I don't use Cantabile anymore, but have used it a lot in the past to do the kind of mappings you're describing. I strongly recommend using a Midi Monitor, like this one, to see what each of the knobs/sliders/keys/pedals in your hardware is actually sending. It helped me learn how MIDI controls actually work, and made me stop looking for gremlins to pin the blame on...!

 

I remember that you can view each mapping in Cantabile in terms of CC number, channel, controller, etc. Once you get the MIDI monitor working, you can compare the output with what is displayed in the mapping, and even filter out unwanted CCs going to the plugin. Which is obviously what is happening in your case.

 

- Guru

 

Your suggestion of a MIDI Monitor software program is perfect. In addition, I had not considered a MIDI Controller without KEYS, but this might be a great "Modular" way to go as well, should I need more Midi mapping control of the software. Thank you again for everyone that replied. There is certainly a wealth of knowledge here that people are willing to share.

Yamaha S90XS, Studiologic VMk-161 Organ

Small/powerful (i7, 32GB, M.2 SSD) PC controlled by 10" Touch Screen

Cantabile, Ravenscroft 275, Keyscape, OPX-II, Omnisphere 2, VB3, Chris Hein Horns, etc.

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That plastic stuff is junk.

The topic of controller quality seems to generate as much if not more heat than one on the pure sound and exceptional build quality of the wide range of Behringer products.

 

So Moe and CEB which of the current keyboards, workstations etc are not made of plastic?

MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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I've been playing live with my plastic junk controller (Roland A800 Pro) for a few years now. That includes local driving and flying across the US a few times. It does have some issues (which I've mentioned on this forum): the USB socket does not grip the cable very well. The LCD placement is not great. The on-board programming is dumbed down compared to their previous-gen controllers.

 

However... it weighs less than 10 pounds (4.5kg). In my SKB case it's a breeze to carry. The keyboard feel is satisfying to me. The various controllers let me do anything I need to do with my laptop-based system.

 

No I don't expect it to last like my ancient steel-cased keyboards of yore. But, by the time I put it in the corner of my music room, I'm sure there'll be a whole slew of new controllers that hook up to ipad-mini-like tablets with 20GB pianos and the VSL built-in (OK I exaggerate...maybe :) )

 

I do many different types of gigs but one thing is for sure: I can never count on an easy shlep. My current setup, for all its faults, is the best sounding, most versatile, and easiest to carry rig I've ever had (and I've been doing this a long time). Yes I'm sure some of the plastic controllers out there might be junk. And of course a piano playing purist won't be happy with one. So you might be taking a little bit of a chance using one of these controllers, but I went for it and so far, all things considered it's been working out fine.

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However AG immediately above your post on the other thread Busch explains how he uses the controllers zoning capacity and a different channel to control different VST's hosted in Ableton live.

 

Two different approaches but if you were starting from scratch now easier to use the host to do these tasks and consider the other option if this approach doesn't work for you.

Sure, there are two ways of getting the job done, and you may not feel the difference in the short term. But in the long run there are *guaranteed* downsides of setting up patches on the keyboard, rather than the host.

 

For now, let's even set aside the obvious advantage to those using backline. Say you've set up dozens and dozens of patches with splits and layers on your multi-zone controller, transmitting different channels, all accessible to the preset buttons on the same keyboard. Works fine, so far. But then you walk into a store, and there's this new keyboard, and you just love the action, build quality, weight, and it's within your budget. But shucks, it doesn't have multiple zones, or preset buttons to recall them. Bummer. You're stuck with what you have(*). And for what advantage, exactly?

 

Now let's say you've programmed your all your patches - splits, layers on the host software. You walk into the store, there's this new keyboard, you love it, etc. etc. You buy it, and take it straight to that evening's gig, plug it in, and all your patches, with multiple splits/layers, the whole thingamajig - everything's there, the way you're used to. Except now you're playing a keyboard that you like much better than the old one.... :cool:

 

And that's the *real* advantage that the laptop/softsynth route gives you, which you don't see being mentioned that often. It gives you the freedom to choose whatever instrument you like in the market - based solely on physical aspects: the feel, the weight, the build quality. A musician needs to have that *physical* connection with his/her axe.

 

Programming patches on the host means never having to compromise on that physical connection, least of all for "controller considerations".

 

But this is a subtle point, and not many people get this at all. Ironically, most keyboardists here think 'cheap plastic controller' as soon as they hear the term 'laptop rig' (recent and persistent example here). I find it both amusing, and sad, because the reality is exactly the opposite - laptop rigs enable you to choose the really solid boards with good action.

 

The guy who programs multi-zone patches on host software, can instantly switch to a Nord Electro, Hammond XK3, or Kawai VPC as his axe, anytime he feels like. No zones? No problem. The guy who programs patches on his 16-zone Kurz PC3, is stuck with it - like it or not.

 

- Guru

 

(*)And perhaps even if it does have all those "controller" features, you have to reprogram all your patches, and if its from a different company, there's always a different workflow, things don't work the way you're used to, there's a learning curve, you need to figure out workarounds...

This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith
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Hey AG,

 

No question the back line argument works for me and I would find it persuasive if I were flying to gig. :thu:

 

The "integrate a new keyboard" argument doesn't and let me tell you why. It takes about a week for someone to adjust to a completely new action, if they are playing anything remotely technical. Buy it that morning and use it that night is amateur-hour to me. :facepalm:

 

Perhaps one reason people might need to swop out controllers more frequently than every 5 years, is because they are ... buying crap? On the other thread Reeze refers to his Roland A800PRO as crap, but despite the plastic it is much better built than most laptop controllers. His is an example in favor of buying quality.

 

Like you, I use a laptop, but for different reasons: I like the sounds I get in MainStage better than most romplers. Secondly, if I like a particular soft synth's unique timbres I can integrate it easily. But when it comes to controllers, I use a controller with onboard sounds and select extremely carefully for it's action. I allow my muscle memory to partner with the instrument over the course of 2-5 years. Every one of us deserves a well-built instrument.

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I have yet to find a keyboard with MIDI with even 1/3 the capability of my dedicated MIDI controller. I'm spoiled by my Kurzweil MIDIBoard.

 

R&D places more emphasis on sound generation than on MIDI controller flexibility. Not to mention the rush to be first to market.

 

Well, up to now I´m using a Miditemp PMM88E MIDI matrix switcher/processor for a larger rig or simply my KURZ PC361 together w/ a 88 weighted keys board as my master controllers.

Both works fine w/ hardware and software or a combo of both.

 

I wonder what the Kurzweil Midiboard can do what the PC3 can´t.

Main drawback w/ PC3 alone for zoning, controller assignments and MIDI Prg.-changes is the 1 MIDI Port/ 16 MIDI channels limit.

Otherwise, to me it´s the most advanced MIDI controller available today.

 

Nonetheless,- I hoped I´d see the Physis Piano K4 and K5 models in september this year but up to now these aren´t available.

Maybe Winter-NAMM and/or Musikmesse 2014.

K4 & K5

 

If these are reliable workhorses like the old Oberheim/ Viscount MC-3000 was,- it´s probably one of the most interesting products coming up for the musician who needs lots of MIDI control.

 

A.C.

 

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Great point, Guru.

 

Though to bring it back to the posts that suggested you can't get a full featured controller these days that doesn't have sounds in it, it's true that you can do the splits/layers in your software, and you can add knobs/sliders with something like a NanoKontrol, and there are various devices you can add for patch selection (including tablet), so yes, you should be able to use any keyboard whatsoever. But there's still the issue of performance controls. i.e. the Kurzweil PC3 series supports 2 foot controllers, 3 foot switches, aftertouch, 3-zone ribbon controller, and breath controller. OTOH, as you suggest, if you come to rely on these things, you no longer have a system that is truly independent of your keyboard. (Though I suppose you could get a good deal of that functionality by creating a pedal board full of MIDI Solutions boxes.)

 

I also agree with your point, "A musician needs to have that *physical* connection with his/her axe" and the benefit of being able to choose whatever keyboard you like "based solely on physical aspects: the feel, the weight, the build quality" though I would add that the physical aspects could extend to the logistics and ergonomics of the control surface as well. Yes, you can emulate the functionality of synth knobs and drawbars with add-on devices, but there's still something to be said for having their design integrated to their boards... sized/placed/labeled appropriately for their functions, logically grouped, etc. My point is that you're absolutely right in everything you said, but there are still trade-offs.

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The whole point of the 'buy it morning/use it at night' example, was merely to highlight the fact that exactly zero programming time and effort is required. And even this fact is only incidental to what I'm saying.

 

- Guru

This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith
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I wonder what the Kurzweil Midiboard can do what the PC3 can´t.

Polyphonic aftertouch. It was also particularly admired for its action, something rarely said about a PC3. Overall, though, while I don't know all the ins and outs of the MIDIBoard, I think the more modern PC3 is actually a much more capable controller.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The Physis looks very interesting. :thu:

 

Advanced midi control is one reason why Kurzweil has such a large installed base on Broadway and with professional musicals.

 

With laptops, it seems the pendulum is swinging back towards the 80's when people separated the controller from the sound source. Except that the ergonomics haven't been sorted out yet.

 

I went to B&H and Sam Ash in Hell's Kitchen yesterday, and tried out a number of devices that are designed to make laptop gigging easier. Unfortunately, most devices are designed for the bedroom studio, not the stage. Ended up simply picking up a table-top type stand to put my junk on (control surface, interface, direct box, etc). Maybe it's an interim step for getting comfortable with the laptop rig before racking everything. After years of practicing a streamlined rig, it seems like a scary step backwards to have to connect four things interdependently together as a part of setup. Maybe elegant new solutions will emerge for laptop gigging over time.

 

Heck, if Thomas Dolby uses gravity to keep his rig together who am I to complain ...

 

 

http://blog.thomasdolby.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/ted08rig.jpg

 

 

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The whole point of the 'buy it morning/use it at night' example, was merely to highlight the fact that exactly zero programming time and effort is required. And even this fact is only incidental to what I'm saying.

 

- Guru

 

Please accept my humble apologies if I have mis-represented your thoughts in any way. We are all trying to find solutions which work for us, and your contribution to the conversation is tremendous. Your thoughtful ability to focus on a particular issue and analyze it thoroughly, has been personally helpful to me.

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That plastic stuff is junk.

The topic of controller quality seems to generate as much if not more heat than one on the pure sound and exceptional build quality of the wide range of Behringer products.

 

So Moe and CEB which of the current keyboards, workstations etc are not made of plastic?

 

My S90XS isn't.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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The whole point of the 'buy it morning/use it at night' example, was merely to highlight the fact that exactly zero programming time and effort is required. And even this fact is only incidental to what I'm saying.

 

- Guru

 

Please accept my humble apologies if I have mis-represented your thoughts in any way. We are all trying to find solutions which work for us, and your contribution to the conversation is tremendous. Your thoughtful ability to focus on a particular issue and analyze it thoroughly, has been personally helpful to me.

 

Certainly, and AG has something useful to offer. However, if threads were strictly held to a specific resolution of an OP's application, we'd have 5x the normal number of threads here, at any given time. Sometimes new ideas are introduced, we learn additional things, etc.. It's all good..

 

I think a discussion of controllers is appropriate - as quality, and usefulness of the current crop of controllers - for both live and studio - is a concern among players. And it just might affect the outcome of the OP's choices in a positive way; having a discussion that brings different products and perspectives to the situation can be very helpful. After all, there is normally more than one solution to a particular issue.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Please accept my humble apologies if I have mis-represented your thoughts in any way. We are all trying to find solutions which work for us, and your contribution to the conversation is tremendous. Your thoughtful ability to focus on a particular issue and analyze it thoroughly, has been personally helpful to me.

Jerry, it is I who should be sorry - my post reads much colder than intended! Guess I was hasty to make sure my shpeal gets across loud and clear... :P

Thanks for the kind words, and the feeling is mutual. I have the highest regard for all of you guys, most of whom have more years of experience on stage than I have years on the planet. I see it as a privilege that I get to bounce ideas off the pros.

 

- Guru

This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith
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