9.25 million dollar home and NO food or drink !!!

[Griffinator]

BTW - an old friend of mine gave me these words of wisdom:

 

"Money doesn't change who you are, it amplifies it. If you're a piece of shit, you'll be a bigger piece of shit if you come into money, because you no longer have a reason to keep up appearances."

[I-missRichardTee]

Dignity/ practicality of making a living... a deep topic. Nice going man.

[I-missRichardTee]

But on balance richer people are colder, and cheaper too. On balance.

 

Tee, with all due respect, you simultaneously make, yet completely miss my point. I'm not judging, because I've been an offender and believe we probably all are, despite what we all say publicly. I just try to be a little better each day than I was the day before. But to the point, I have no doubt that your experience has been exactly what you say. The point us that it's YOUR experience, and doesn't necessarily correlate to the group with whom you associate the behavior.

 

The best example is the white guy who's been carjacked once in his life, and it was a black guy, so to him, black people are car jackers, because he's only been car jacked by black people. I'm guessing by now you all are seeing the fault in that logic. But replace black with rich and all bets are off. Understandably, it's because rich people have all they need - discrimination isn't really a factor. Problem is, if you can generalize hatred towards them, you can generalize hatred towards any group - race, religion, political persuasion, class. People are people, so why should it be, you and I should get along so awfully (I just made that up, you like?).

 

All I know is I like you, Mr Dan. I did not entirely follow the rest of your words though, well except, what you and many here are saying.. 'Tee stop the dumb ass generalizing.. good and bad, are equal opportunity qualities.' Ok, guys, I will rethink my bias against the rich. I appreciate it. Edit: I do not "hate" the rich, never did.. just have been put off by their vibe.

Question: Is being put off by someone or a group, is that hatred? Maybe I am excusing myself, or kidding myself. Wanted to know your opinions. Thanks, And Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah, and whatever other Holy day I may have missed.

[ITGITC]

Ok, guys, I will rethink my bias against the rich. I appreciate it.

 

Thanks, And Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah, and whatever other Holy day I may have missed.

 

Tee, I was lucky to learn early in life that the times I have made broad generalizations, I was often proven wrong.

 

I hope I'm not wrong in that I still think there are more good folks in life than butt-holes.

 

It may take me longer, but I'm sticking with the process of figuring this out one person at a time.

 

Happy Holidays to you, too!

 

Tom

 

[HammondDave]

"Bring on the peasant musicians! Let them entertain us!"

 

As long as we accept this, we will continue to be what they think we are.

[Jazzmammal]

When I told the story of that gig in Virginia, that's just one job that stood out in my memory because it was so stupid. Most high end gigs I've done have been ok. The musicians are still just staff like the caterers but after all we are simply temps called in for a few hours, we're not guests.

 

What's funny though is some of the players I work with occasionally are wealthier than some of the people we've worked for. One drummer is a retired superior court judge who shows up at the gig in a Porsche Cayenne and another sax player buddy lives on the Strand in Manhattan Beach and owns something like 30 rental properties. His house is worth more than several other millionaire's houses that we've done parties at. Yet we all show up and we're just staff relegated to the kitchen on breaks and the host has no idea who those guys are. And no, I'm not at that level, I'm just a working schlep like everybody else.

 

This is why music is so important to all of us. No matter who we are or what we do or did, music is good for the soul and we're willing to go to great lengths and put up with a lot in order to play to an audience. Having a jam in somebody's basement just doesn't cut it.

 

Bob

[JeffLearman]

Tee, I was lucky to learn early in life that the times I have made broad generalizations, I was often proven wrong.

I've said it a million times, only an idiot makes a generalization. That goes for exaggeration, too.

 

I've had a steady stream of ***holes of every description this year, from welfare recipient parasite to multi millionaire parasite.

Aren't you playing the Boston Policeman's Ball this year, since you're on such good terms?

 

I just try to be a little better each day than I was the day before

Wise words. The only way for anyone to avoid being a bigot is to assume you do have prejudices and be on the lookout for them.

[I-missRichardTee]

Learjeff & JustDan, If I understand you correctly, are you saying all generalizations are untrue? I have to part company with you, if that is your meaning.

I am willing to look at my generalized feeling about affluent folks. I will vigorously try to see the error in my prejudgments.. I think you guys are right. But never will I say that all generalizations have no value. It IS possible that Learjeff was teasing, so, if so.. I may have missed it . Have a Happy Holiday/ Holy Day, to all.

 

And try to avoid the "Wet Bandits", if at all possible!

[video:youtube]

 

[retrokeys]

Interesting topic and some great stories. On the subject of generalizations about rich folks, let me throw this into the mix...it's not the money, it's how long they have had it. In my experience, self made individuals are usually pretty cool. They may be driven and perhaps even selfish but they are not usually condescending snobs. That is reserved for the second generation. Really old money, by comparison is so assured of its place that folks who have it can "afford" to take people as they come and treat them decently. Of course, all generalizations are wrong including this one.

 

[I-missRichardTee]

"All generalizations are wrong...." P lol

[linwood]

That's when I say something like..." I don't need this stinkin' job! I've got 2 or 3 hundred in the bank!! "

[J. Dan]

Interesting topic and some great stories. On the subject of generalizations about rich folks, let me throw this into the mix...it's not the money, it's how long they have had it. In my experience, self made individuals are usually pretty cool. They may be driven and perhaps even selfish but they are not usually condescending snobs. That is reserved for the second generation. Really old money, by comparison is so assured of its place that folks who have it can "afford" to take people as they come and treat them decently. Of course, all generalizations are wrong including this one.

 

I would say it depends on how they were raised. There are plenty of rich people who are 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation who are good people.

 

Tee, the reason why all generalizations are wrong is because they don't apply to everybody. Even if 98% of the people fit your generalization, then you're prejudging and being unfair to the other 2%.

[WesG]

I have a question... Tee, how many gigs have you played for poor people?

[Delaware Dave]

They probably remembered this...

 

[Cygnus64]

It's always the caterer or somebody like that.

Yup, you nailed it. Wedding planners and Caterers. Fortunately, one can usually sniff out the overzealous ones right away. I've gotten pretty adept at dealing with them, I call my patented technique "The Preemptive strike":

 

Wedding Planner: You'll need to...

Me (interrupting): "Hi there, nice to meet you. We have all the info we need spelled out in our contract so we don't need any assistance, but thanks anyways. If problems arise we'll go directly to (person that hired us). Thanks again."

 

Usually works great. In fact, sometimes they change their tune instantly and become an ally with "Can I get you folks some drinks" stuff. It's not always that they are born biatchy, it's a management style. I try to make it clear that we work for someone else and it rarely fails. They need to know that the musicians aren't their problem, as their goal is to cover their own ass.

 

I can't think of a single time the "rich" person has been an A-hole. It's always the caterer or somebody like that. In fact, I take great pleasure when, to the dismay of the bossy caterer, the person paying the bills chooses to hang with the band and have fun.

Once again, sage wisdom here. A few well-placed words and compliments will change the scenario from "hacks" to "artistes", it's all in the approach. Ass-kissing is the wrong approach, anti-ass-kissing works. If one acts like a waiter, they will be treated like one. If one is relaxed and normal, they will be too.

 

 

[uncledunc]

I'm with Mr Tee on this one. Google "rich people" and "compassion" and see what comes up. It's not pretty. Multiple studies have shown a correlation between affluence and a lack of compassion. I'll take multiple studies over anecdotes any day. That doesn't mean I expect rich people to treat me poorly, but when they do, I don't sweat it. It just comes with the territory - as does a much bigger paycheck. That said, I'm doing a NY Eve gig for a bunch of rich people who are actually quite nice. They even feed us.

[stillplaying]

 

I've actually found the reverse often applies, at least in terms of commercial venues.

 

The staff at The Dorchester, for example, have never been anything but unfailingly helpful and friendly to me when I've gigged there (the doormen will even help you unload gear and get it sent up to the right room on a trolley while you park).

 

Then again, I've been routinely been about as welcomed as dog shit on a pair of Converse at many a godawful Best Western or similar in the middle of nowhere.

 

 

Same here. Been treated very well by the wealthy "Oil" fraternity in Aberdeen - corporate events and their private family birthday parties and weddings. Hundreds of bookings - always treated very well.

 

Similarly the Edinburgh banking crew - and they have a reputation for cockiness and arrogance when dealing with minions. No issues for us. Blow up at Edinburgh castle one night but the band (I was depping) showed poor diplomatic skills when given an unreasonable request.

 

[I-missRichardTee]

I'm with Mr Tee on this one. Google "rich people" and "compassion" and see what comes up. It's not pretty. Multiple studies have shown a correlation between affluence and a lack of compassion. I'll take multiple studies over anecdotes any day. That doesn't mean I expect rich people to treat me poorly, but when they do, I don't sweat it. It just comes with the territory - as does a much bigger paycheck. That said, I'm doing a NY Eve gig for a bunch of rich people who are actually quite nice. They even feed us.

 

I have played with a few of the cats in the Blues Bros band.... Alan Rubin is the maitre'd in the Blues Bros youtube clip- he is .. was an excellent NYC trumpet / session guy.

Back on point... thank you sir, Monsieur Uncledunc - very wise of you to agree with Mr Tee ha ha ha this Christmas spirit can make old Tee a silly guy.

That biblical saying is it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven? There really IS something about the rich... I think it is basically a certain type of ego, based on a feeling they don't need others, nor a God, they have wealth.. so an especially off putting ego. We all have ego of one kind or another, but their kind is especially unpleasant for me. My friend Just Dan says if there is one exception to this, than this generalization is of no use. I respectfully differ!!

 

[Brettymike]

^^^ What a sad and distorted vision of people with a few extra dollars in their pocket. Twisted.

 

Brett

[Markay]

The experiences of the OP, Marino and others sadden me and I didn't think there would anything meaningful I could add to this thread. Just back from dinner with a good friend who struggles to make ends meet gigging and teaching.

 

He is booked Xmas day for three hour gig triple time on a harbour cruise and tells his elderly folk he cannot make Xmas lunch with them at a club because he has a high paying gig.

 

This morning he gets a call telling him the cruise has some cancellations and the gig is off. He asks if there is any payment in lieu of notice as per Muscians Union standard terms. They say no, but if you make make an issue there are fifty others ready to take your regular Friday night gig.

 

The club his folks are going to for Xmas lunch is now booked out.

 

I can never figure out why the business side of the music business is full of people who have had a moral and ethical bypass.

[Cygnus64]

I'm with Mr Tee on this one. Google "rich people" and "compassion" and see what comes up. It's not pretty. Multiple studies have shown a correlation between affluence and a lack of compassion.

You're taking it out of the context of the thread. I'm not in the habit of defending the wealthy, but in this case it's a different scenario. If they are employing musicians at a reasonable fee, I'm their fan. I don't really get the "How dare those greed bastards pay me" mentality.

 

Taylor Swift donated 100K to the Nashville Symphony last week. Some of the comments on the article were "Good for her (my sentiments exactly)". Others were "big deal, a tax write-off", "that's nothing for her" and "she gave to elitist snobs". In other words, people tried to disparage her generous gift, it's almost like a habit. The girl walked the walk. I'm fairly certain that the people who disparaged her gave $0.00, yet they tried to trivialize and take away from someone who did give.

 

 

[Moonglow]

Be careful when talking about abandoning generalizations, as they are the basis of science. When using the scientific method, sample data are typically collected, then the null hypothesis is tested. If the outcome of the statistical test is significant (usually at a minimum alpha level of .05) the null hypothesis is rejected, thus providing support for the alternative hypothesis. Generalizations about the population are then inferred from the sample data. Of course, inferential statistical tests are based on probability, and due to the possibility sampling error (which can never be completely eliminated), one can never really prove the alternative hypothesis....a point many of you have astutely made. At best, all we can say is that the alternative hypothesis appears reasonable, defendable, or tenable. Then as more observations or theory become available, new hypotheses can be developed/tested. I realize we largely have not been talking about scientifically controlled studies, but many of the observations expressed in this thread form the basis of hypothesis development, which can be measured, tested....and generalized. Just sayin'....

[uncledunc]

I'm with Mr Tee on this one. Google "rich people" and "compassion" and see what comes up. It's not pretty. Multiple studies have shown a correlation between affluence and a lack of compassion.

You're taking it out of the context of the thread. I'm not in the habit of defending the wealthy, but in this case it's a different scenario. If they are employing musicians at a reasonable fee, I'm their fan. I don't really get the "How dare those greed bastards pay me" mentality.

 

Taylor Swift donated 100K to the Nashville Symphony last week. Some of the comments on the article were "Good for her (my sentiments exactly)". Others were "big deal, a tax write-off", "that's nothing for her" and "she gave to elitist snobs". In other words, people tried to disparage her generous gift, it's almost like a habit. The girl walked the walk. I'm fairly certain that the people who disparaged her gave $0.00, yet they tried to trivialize and take away from someone who did give.

 

 

The only people who know if Taylor Swift "walked the walk" are the ones she deals with on a daily basis. This is another example of anecdotal evidence used to counter the empirical evidence I mentioned earlier. We can sling anecdotes back and forth all day long, but the biggest anecdote of all - the huge transfer of wealth from the working class to the ruling class that's occurred over the last 40-plus years - speaks for itself. Class warfare exists, and the rich won. Their charity, whether it's PR-inspired or genuine, doesn't change that.

 

I do agree that getting to the gig an hour early, and bringing your own food, and having to set up in the wrong spot, are just part of the gig. You take the gig, you accept what comes with it and you're gracious to the host even of the host is the biggest dickwad you've ever met. It's called being a professional. While we consider ourselves "artists", in the real world we are no different than the plumber that comes to fix the toilet. The plumber does not expect to get fed on his gig, and I don't expect to get fed on mine. But I will savor the scrumptious odors as I'm munching on my Cliff Bar. And sometimes, if I'm lucky, I will go home with pie crumbs in my beard.

[Michael W]

The richest guy I've ever known was Paul Allen, who has about $15 billion. But I didn't play for him - I played with him - he was in the band, and just a great guy to play with and know. This was back around '95 when he owned the company I was working for.

 

http://www.fototime.com/53E70ECE38EC803/standard.jpg

[Bobadohshe]

Honestly, I find the generalizations in this thread troubling.

 

I have lots of thoughts on these matters. I've played 5 solo piano gigs in wealthy people's homes the past week and have been satisfied with the treatment I received.

 

I don't discount Dave's shabby experience this past weekend at all nor am I speaking to his story in particular. But I didn't have any issues with these 'rich' folks.

 

One was 3 hours at a $2M dollar loft in downtown SD, one was 4 hours at a $3M home in Rancho Santa Fe, one was 2 hours for a Women's Club Xmas lunch, one was 2 hrs at a former student's parent's home. Generally, here's how it went down in each case:

 

-- I was treated courteously but somewhat curtly by the owners when I showed up. As a small part in the much bigger machine of their Christmas Parties, I expected nothing less. In one case, the hostess was getting dressed and putting out a small fire with the caterer who hadn't brought enough tables. I was of use to her by staying the hell out of her way and doing her job.

 

--1/2 way through the evening, I had brief interactions with each host, and they were enthusiastically telling me how lovely it sounded and offering me food and wine with big smiles on their faces.

 

 

Thanks for the $$, rich people. I was really happy with how I was treated in each case. If you are hired to perform a service at an event, how exactly do you expect to be treated? Do you expect people to gush over your performance and roll out the red carpet? Of course you will be expected to stop and start when they want and set up where they want. It's not about me.

[I-missRichardTee]

I have a question... Tee, how many gigs have you played for poor people?

 

That question, is a trick, you wascal you!

[I-missRichardTee]

Honestly, I find the generalizations in this thread troubling.

 

I have lots of thoughts on these matters. I've played 5 solo piano gigs in wealthy people's homes the past week and have been satisfied with the treatment I received.

 

I don't discount Dave's shabby experience this past weekend at all nor am I speaking to his story in particular. But I didn't have any issues with these 'rich' folks.

 

One was 3 hours at a $2M dollar loft in downtown SD, one was 4 hours at a $3M home in Rancho Santa Fe, one was 2 hours for a Women's Club Xmas lunch, one was 2 hrs at a former student's parent's home. Generally, here's how it went down in each case:

 

-- I was treated courteously but somewhat curtly by the owners when I showed up. As a small part in the much bigger machine of their Christmas Parties, I expected nothing less. In one case, the hostess was getting dressed and putting out a small fire with the caterer who hadn't brought enough tables. I was of use to her by staying the hell out of her way and doing her job.

 

--1/2 way through the evening, I had brief interactions with each host, and they were enthusiastically telling me how lovely it sounded and offering me food and wine with big smiles on their faces.

 

 

Thanks for the $$, rich people. I was really happy with how I was treated in each case. If you are hired to perform a service at an event, how exactly do you expect to be treated? Do you expect people to gush over your performance and roll out the red carpet? Of course you will be expected to stop and start when they want and set up where they want. It's not about me.

 

OT, but Bob, dare I ask, what kind of repertoire did you employ... not the old school standards + christmas things, right? You add what to that old 20th century approach? I assume you do maybe a few standards, and a healthy number of Christmas, of the non religious order.

Your words make sense, btw, I agree with what you say. I am not sure ( this whole thread gives me pause to rethink my gut feelings about the rich- could it be envy, feelings of undue entitlement.. or are my presently unconscious negative feelings, based on something "valid"? Ironical, that this thread is during Christmas time, and the one who it is based on, says counterintuitive things like "love your enemy", and 'give away what you have' ) why I still feel negatively about the rich ( with exceptions ) . I will be paying much closer attention.

 

 

[I-missRichardTee]

Be careful when talking about abandoning generalizations, as they are the basis of science. When using the scientific method, sample data are typically collected, then the null hypothesis is tested. If the outcome of the statistical test is significant (usually at a minimum alpha level of .05) the null hypothesis is rejected, thus providing support for the alternative hypothesis. Generalizations about the population are then inferred from the sample data. Of course, inferential statistical tests are based on probability, and due to the possibility sampling error (which can never be completely eliminated), one can never really prove the alternative hypothesis....a point many of you have astutely made. At best, all we can say is that the alternative hypothesis appears reasonable, defendable, or tenable. Then as more observations or theory become available, new hypotheses can be developed/tested. I realize we largely have not been talking about scientifically controlled studies, but many of the observations expressed in this thread form the basis of hypothesis development, which can be measured, tested....and generalized. Just sayin'....

 

Always be suspicious, when someone suggests the a bonafide word eg generalizations are all wrong, or untrue. When you hear this, know for sure, you are hearing a half truth.

And Moonglow, thank you- I wish you could have put your highly scientific words, in a little more friendly verbiage. But that is part of the schism between the world of science and the rest of the world. If science could be made more accessible, would that dilute the truth?

[Dr88s]

For those of you who prejudge the wealthy as arrogant and callous:

 

Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, it is your preconceived disdain for them that permeates your interactions with them, and they are just playing off your hostility?

 

 

 

[Cygnus64]

I'm with Mr Tee on this one. Google "rich people" and "compassion" and see what comes up. It's not pretty. Multiple studies have shown a correlation between affluence and a lack of compassion.

You're taking it out of the context of the thread. I'm not in the habit of defending the wealthy, but in this case it's a different scenario. If they are employing musicians at a reasonable fee, I'm their fan. I don't really get the "How dare those greed bastards pay me" mentality.

 

Taylor Swift donated 100K to the Nashville Symphony last week. Some of the comments on the article were "Good for her (my sentiments exactly)". Others were "big deal, a tax write-off", "that's nothing for her" and "she gave to elitist snobs". In other words, people tried to disparage her generous gift, it's almost like a habit. The girl walked the walk. I'm fairly certain that the people who disparaged her gave $0.00, yet they tried to trivialize and take away from someone who did give.

 

 

The only people who know if Taylor Swift "walked the walk" are the ones she deals with on a daily basis. This is another example of anecdotal evidence used to counter the empirical evidence I mentioned earlier..

 

...and you're doing exactly what I described, you're trivializing a fact. The chick gave 100K, fact.

 

This is another example of anecdotal evidence

I live in the artsy-fartsy world, I've been surrounded by the wealthy for 30 years. As I said, I'm not in the habit of defending them, they are what they are. It's hardly anecdotal for me, it's a large part of my employment. I've seen some mega-shiatheads and some true angels. I've sat in board meetings with some and wanted to strangle them, only to have someone do something amazing and restore my (limited) faith.

 

Class warfare exists, and the rich won.

Different subject, and one that's teetering on the schmolitics topic. I don't think I would disagree with you on that, and if it were a different forum I might say "Right on, bro", but it's out of the context of this thread. Rich people can treat musicians just as well or as crappy as poor people, which is the point of the thread (for me at least). There's a certain mindset needed with any employer, and those who know how to deal with the situation will have a better time of it.