What's the best KB amp

[I-missRichardTee]

 

Which comments, specifically, do you not agree with?

 

Instead of simply calling my comments a steaming pile of crap and slinking out the back door, tell me which comments you would like to address.

 

Be sure to support your claims.

 

Tom

 

 

 

 

There are people who use keyboard amps and their opinion is just as valid as yours, Tom.

 

Tom's comments amount to a steaming pile of crap.

 

Indeed.

 

 

What is all of this nonsense? Tom, I did not find your words, a steaming anything. Why this rancor.. I do not get it? The Jim Esch fellow, has made plenty of intelligent points in the past... as have you; I simply don't get this arguing over nothing.

 

To the fellow who mentioned JBL rebranding the inimitable JBL G2 ( not the newer iterations ) , I agree, much as I have tried, I cannot find a more VERSATILE supporter of numerous keyboard, and vocal sounds than my trusty Eon 15 G2.

 

[BradD]

For those of you talking about powered PAs, are you playing your keys through a separate PA than the vocals and other PA amplified sounds? I've always thought my keys sounded best through the PA that my vocals also run through, which is a passive system with separate amp and mixer. I think it is much easier to mix live with amps miced through the PA anyway, which kind of defeats the purpose of a separate keyboard amp.

[Ken Beaumont]

I use a small PA (line mixer, power amp and two full range speakers), separate from the vocals. Its only for monitoring, I then send the monitor line out to FOH. That way I can adjust what I want to hear without effecting the vocals or depend on the bass player/sound guy.

 

So I have a vocal monitor in front of me and my 2 instrument speakers behind me. I'm a co-front man so its important to me that the loudest thing I hear is my vocal and no other sounds or vocals come out of that speaker and that I hear my keys and guitar just slightly louder than the other instruments.

 

Its working well for me, the only thing I think might be better is in ear monitors with a personal mixer like the Powerplay PM-16 LINK

[ITGITC]

What is all of this nonsense? Tom, I did not find your words, a steaming anything. Why this rancor.. I do not get it? The Jim Esch fellow, has made plenty of intelligent points in the past... as have you; I simply don't get this arguing over nothing.

 

Tee, Esh is passionate about his beliefs, as are you and I.

 

I believe that whenever the topic of disagreeing with someone's choice of equipment comes up, we want to defend our choice like a mother bear protects her cubs.

 

I understand.

 

Plus, Esh and I have a history of discussing this particular topic at least once or twice a year. He depends on me to defend my opinion while he tries to defend his.

 

Truth be told, I don't think it's personal. It's just how we get along.

 

Frankly, I think some good points are being made. And if I am proven wrong, I will be the first to say so.

 

I call this a learning experience.

 

It goes well with a beer and a slice of humble pie.

 

It's all good.

 

Tom

 

 

[RandyFF]

I had the Motion Sound KP500sn and was so so about it- used it for practice at home and didn't like the ramping up of the fan when you hit lower notes, though of course that wouldn't be an issue at a gig. You also need to find a way to get it up as close to ear level as possible for the best sound.

 

The general conclusion many have reached is that pa speakers are a cleaner, higher fidelity solution than keyboard amps. What you often end up missing though is a more robust mixer section.

 

My short list of pa speakers I would consider:

 

1. RCF 310A (10", $400) or 312A (12", $450). These very very good sounding speakers are comparable in sound quality to the JBL PRX / QSC K and KW / Yamaha DSR lines, and are close to half the cost. Do a search on HC Live Sound and Production forum for the many positive reviews

 

2. EV ZLX 12P ($400), Turbosound Milan M12 ($500), are good sounding, inexpensive 12" boxes

 

3. Mackie DLM 12 ($849) is pricier, but its coaxial design makes it by far the smallest of all these speakers (it's light too), and the onboard 2 channel digital mixer has some great capabilities

 

4. I'd love to have a 2.1 system- jerry rig a couple of small (3-4" drivers) satellites to my keyboard stand, with a 10" sub

[Ken Beaumont]

I'd love to have a 2.1 system- jerry rig a couple of small (3-4" drivers) satellites to my keyboard stand, with a 10" sub

 

I have a Roland CM-220 its pretty decent for small stages and practice as a monitoring system. LINK

What I really like is the speakers mount on standard mic stands.

[The Real MC]

For those of you talking about powered PAs, are you playing your keys through a separate PA than the vocals and other PA amplified sounds? I've always thought my keys sounded best through the PA that my vocals also run through, which is a passive system with separate amp and mixer. I think it is much easier to mix live with amps miced through the PA anyway, which kind of defeats the purpose of a separate keyboard amp.

 

My onstage monitor is a set of Bose 802s. I route the onstage mix to a DI to the PA.

 

http://www.retrosynth.com/~analoguediehard/tour/offsite-rig/offsite-rig-base-system-06-monitor-hammond-full.jpg

[Brettymike]

To me , that's an over the top TON of equipment - good stage though.

 

Brett

[richforman]

Actually yes, I take back my praise for the "ergonomics" of the eon15 g2, in fact the whole control panel where the jacks and knobs are is kind of really hard to get to during a gig, I find myself having to crouch down on the floor and use my the flashlight app on my Android phone to get everything plugged in and set the way I want. I guess that's the one advantage I'd give my old KC-350 (which, retired from my gigging rig, now lives on in my music room where I practice and learn tunes through it) - the input jacks and all controls were much more easily accessible. But I guess what I meant rather than ergonomics was the *functionality* which, for a powered speaker, also offers pretty much just what you'd need and expect from a dedicated keyboard amp - multiple inputs, a low-z input and output, basic eq - hence my idea that they should try selling it as one. And I like the fact that it acts as a wedge, angled up toward you from the floor, negating the need for an amp stand - big plus. It's not lightweight, but not too heavy either even for a weakling like me. I also wish the case they sell for it was better designed making it easier to actually get the amp into the case at the end of the night, there's no way to keep it kind of splayed open as you put the thing down into it.

 

[drawback]

Actually yes, I take back my praise for the "ergonomics" of the eon15 g2, in fact the whole control panel where the jacks and knobs are is kind of really hard to get to during a gig, I find myself having to crouch down on the floor and use my the flashlight app on my Android phone to get everything plugged in and set the way I want.

 

Anyone want to set this discussion off on a "what's the best small mixer" trajectory?

 

 

 

[Tusker]

Frankly, I would love to see an accurate-sounding, lightweight keyboard amp on the market. It truly is a good solution for many.

 

 

I've played through a number of bass amps, the Roland KC amps, even the smaller motion sound amps. No question, if I had to choose amongst them, I'd chooses the motion sounds as monitors. Why? They have a warm personality and relatively high fidelity. To me they have a higher fidelity than some earlier PA powered speakers (like JBL Eons and Mackie SRM 450's).

 

My primary keyboard amp however was an excellent Barbetta 41. Also warm and round like the motion sound, and perhaps a little bit more so. I loved it.

 

When the powered QSC's came out I ab-ed them against my Barbetta and today the K12 is my primary keyboard amp. I sold my Barbetta to a terrific jazz player from NYC who drove two hours to find this nice bit of kit. I watched him audition it, (he already had Sona 31 and he knew the tone he was going for) and I felt really good that this speaker would deliver what he wanted. I wanted the extra clarity of the K12, primarily for piano, and certain synth things. It works, and unlike my Barbetta it's common enough that I don't have to worry about repair and service options. I am very happy with it.

 

So is the QSC the end of my story? No. Even though it's flatter than any of the keyboard amps I have used, it's not nearly as good as some wood constructed speakers some of my friends have been playing through. The new Yamahas look interesting as well. One of these days I might feel the urge to switch again.

 

So what about that coloration that first drew me to Barbetta. Do I miss it? Yes at times. On occasion I play certain sounds through a fender amp, just for color. One day I might pull the trigger on a (gulp) leslie. My back will have to approve these purchases, so anytime somebody figures out how to put more fidelity and power into a lighter solution, I'll be listening. My audience doesn't care whether the manufacturer calls the device a keyboard amp or a powered speaker, so I don't either.

 

 

 

[ITGITC]

 

I'm still using my Mackie 1402-VLZ. I bought it many years ago. Never had a problem.

 

OTOH, lots of people on that other forum like the Allen and Heath mixers.

 

I'm seeing quite a bit of discussion about PreSonus mixers over there too.

 

For a keyboard mixer, I like having a mic input or two, just in case I need it. However, I know there are many good units to choose from. But for my purposes the starting point would be whether it should be a line mixer or one that includes mic inputs.

 

Dave Ferris has done quite a bit of investigation into high-end mixers. I value his opinion.

 

OTOH, for live sound I don't think I could hear enough difference to justify a large cost difference.

 

The decision truly depends on your situation - and your wallet.

 

Tom

 

[ADino]

No one mentions them anymore, but a few years ago I used 2 Acme loB1's w/a small GK bass brain. Great sounding speakers and u could call the co.. To me, it was the best setup Ive ever owned.

After testing all of the aforementioned "PA" cabs in a number of rooms, the K12 does well 4 me. If u go this route, lots of decent mixers, but A&H always gives me the results Im after. Theres certainly nothing wrong w/the keyboard amps mentioned..if they give you the sound that helps u play comfortably.

 

[Dave Ferris]

 

Dave Ferris has done quite a bit of investigation into high-end mixers. I value his opinion.

Tom

 

Thanks Tom. I really like both my JMK Audio JM-110 di/pre for just piano and when I need vocals & piano-the APB Dynasonics Prospec 2U4M2S. I A/B'd the APB Prospec with my A&H Zed 10, which I'd been using for years, and the difference was really quite noticeable-both on piano and vocal. Both of those pieces were a grand each. Not cheap, but worth it for me.

 

I will someday upgrade my speakers to the L' Acoustics 108Ps.

[b3plyr]

Take a look at Acoustic Research. Their amps are full range, small, and relatively light weight. Expensive, but well worth it. I am fortunate that I picked up 2 Ten/2 amps for a good price. They sound great for piano or organ. Having 2-10" speakers and a tweeter gives you full range. And they can handle the bass as the Ten/2 was designed for bass and acoustic players from the start. I currently use with a VAX77 and MainStage and a Mojo. Great performance.

 

Having said all of this, I will have to +1 on the EV speakers. They are a great value for the money.

[Theo Verelst]

To answer the title, probably mostly the amp that has great specs, and is combined with the most neutral speaker setup. So not speaking of weight, size, or price, and presuming no PA system powers, there are quality products out there which probably should be in the top 10 for having the best "sound":

 

http://www.quested.com/studio-monitoring-production/images/v3110-landscape.gif

 

This pretty low distortion Lexicon power amp. Etc.

 

Also, I know it's possible trying to escape the obvious and attempt to be "the best" in some important dimensions by building my own quality medium power (multi-) amp (Lower and Middle Left):

 

http://www.theover.org/Diary/Ldi36/backgroundgi_final1000.jpg

 

which combined with my 4 way speakers and 15" sub can be carried from a (big) car in about 5 walks, and are then absolutely worth the difference in sound quality compared with just about any of the run of the mill solutions.

 

But of course you can stick with systems not trying to be good at being neutral, or less full-range (and in ome cases with less brutal power), which might be easy to carry and small. Those more average (but surely quality) systems may have a good compromise for the main sound properties, smoothen or otherwise please your signals, or have specific special sound (for good reasons), like I enjoyed playing combo-type "amps". What's best is then personal and a bit hard to quantify.

 

T

[MikeT156]

Most of what is the "best" KB amp depends on you application. As our favorite Real Estate agents say "Location, Location, Location" For KB players its about "Application, Application, Application. If you play in a guitar based band and need to cut through DEAF guitar players, then you need a lot more power and speakers to have a chance.

 

If you do a solo or a duo act at moderate volume you can do well with a moderate full range PA system.

 

I did a solo act for years and used a set of either JBL speaker cabinets or more recently a set of Peavy SP2's when I got tired of trying to lug around heavy JBL cabinets. But I set the volume for everything and the mix of my Sequences were done in my home studio. So....I didn't have to worry about getting blasted out by deaf guitar players.

 

The answer to the OP's questions is......NONE. There is no such a thing as a good KB amp. Mono, Mono, Mono on the corner of a stage while working with a band doesn't work. Now, if you have a FOH PA and only need a monitor, you can get by with one good clear sound speaker cabinet.

 

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Mike T.

[WesG]

I'm very happy with the Yorkville NX55p. It can do two boards and a mic w/o a mixer, is loud, and relatively light. It has far better LF response then you think it would for a speaker with a mere 12 inch driver; something like down to 40 Hz at -3 dB.

[Al Coda]

 

This pretty low distortion Lexicon power amp. Etc.

 

 

T

 

The Lexicon NT series amps are Bryston amps.

 

When I looked at the pics following your link it was obvious to me because it´s even the original Byston case.

 

I googled ...

Is the Lexicon NT225 amp a Bryston ...

 

Anyway,- these are good amps.

I use the Bryston 3B Pro though ...

 

That said,- the Brystons are probably cheaper than the Lexicon branded amps.

 

A.C.

[ADino]

Cool thing about these threads is that I get turned on to new products, or products Ive never heard of b4. Thanks for that.

[rickzjamm]

ElectroVoice ZLX 12 P is what I got & I'm loving it. Powerful and lightweight, yes!!!!!!!

[Theo Verelst]

....

I use the Bryston 3B Pro though ...

....

A.C.

 

Well, I don't have Lexicon amp myself, but was checking specs. My amps have about the same distortion as the 3B, according to specs, though not necessarily at the same power, and for my multi-amping I use 6 channels (two in brigde for the sub), which toghether have comparable power, without being accurate. I very much like to have low-distortion, moderately high power amps for listening, so that I know I'm not mixing for amp-distortion, and so that the sampling distortion is it's own thing, and the speaker distortion another.

 

Of course the damping factor matters for my type of (non-bass-port) speakers, and I've been working on speaker correction processing that sound promising (even thought the sound is already pretty transparent). No low-damping factor, high distorting (but cheap) switched amps for my main system!

 

T.

[MonksDream]

Let the zombie thread rise again!

 

I rented a pair of NX 55Ps for a solo piano gig at City Hall this week and can report they sounded fantastic with my RD300GX. I can safely say one of these beats any amp I've heard sound-wise. Next I'd like to try out the EV line.

[bluzeyone]

Sounding like the term "KB amp" is a joke and a sore spot for some... believe me I get it. A powered PA speaker is the way to go.

 

There was a 'thing' a few threads ago about what a Keyboard amp means in todays world

It got a little spicey

I swear by Yamaha stuff. I gig with a powered mixer and a couple BR speakers. Sounds great and keeps getting us work. I think the mixer is 22 lbs. Aside from that I would look into thier powered speakers