richforman Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Okay, I just received my new Alesis Vortex keytar, grabbed it for a great deal on HelloMusic on Black Friday, anyway I sit down with it and the manual to just learn the basics and I am already stumped, has anybody else played with one? (I have it midi'ed up to my Fantom X7 and that's working fine.) The first task I wanted to do was to set a split point, simple enough. But the instructions for how to do so in the Quick Start manual, under the heading "Setting Split Points" on p. 6, seems to be missing something. I go into Patch Edit mode, okay, the LED says PE to confirm that. Step 2, press the Split Button, the fifth round button on the keytar's neck, that works as described, it lights up and the # of the current split point is displayed on the LED. Step 3, I press the key on the keyboard that I want to be the split point, and that works as expected too, the corresponding # for that key now appears on the LED. Step 4 is what doesn't work - it says "Press the Enter key to save changes," now the only way I can think to interpret "Press the enter key" is the key on the keyboard that has the word "Enter" printed above it. The rightmost 19 keys on the keyboard have these function names printed above them (or numbers, for the range of keys that acts as a numeric keypad for value entry), and it is the very top key that is designated as Enter. But when I press it, it just interprets it as another new value that it thinks I want to enter for the split point. The documentation doesn't (seem to me to) tell how you tell the machine that you are done specifying your split point key, and that the next key you press should trigger the associated action. (My intuitive guess would have been that it only takes the first key entry after specifying Split Zone as the intended split point, but I guess not). Anyway, does anyone know how to complete this operation, and then for extra credit, how to then save that as a performance present? thanks guys. Rich Forman Yamaha MOXF8, Korg Kronos 2-61, Roland Fantom X7, Ferrofish B4000+ organ module, Roland VR-09, EV ZLX12P, K&M Spider Pro stand, Yamaha S80, Korg Trinity Plus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Based on your description, and having never seen/touched the Vortex or read the manual, I can pretty safely assume there is probably a "SHIFT" type button somewhere on the unit that needs to be held or pressed to put the keyboard into "data entry" mode, which will enable the "Enter" value rather than simply being a note. I'd look for that. Edit: Okay, a quick Google search led me to this page describing how to program the Vortex. You should probably visit it to read more of what he has to say, but here's the pertinent point: Normally, the Vortex is in PF (Patch Function?) Mode. In general, the Vortex is programmed by pressing Patch Edit (the display will show PE)(Patch Edit Mode),then by pressing a button/sensor. The display will show the button/sensor name (abbreviation) and you can then change the values. Pressing the Enter key (on the Keyboard itself)(Key #37) will change (store) the value. Pressing Patch Edit again will let you out of Patch Edit mode. Often, values can be changed by using the three knobs (potentiometers) aptly named K1, K2 and K3. Does that jive with what you're experiencing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richforman Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 Thanks Sven.....not really, that passage pretty much restates the shorter instructions in the Quick Start, but again, what I'm seeing happen is that "Pressing the Enter key (on the Keyboard itself)(Key #37) will change (store) the value" isn't actually happening, maybe it's a bug just this particular function, setting the split point, as opposed to picking a numeric value for some other parameter, but Pressing Key #37 isn't storing the value I just selected, but is instead simply selecting another value (37, the number corresponding to this key, where I had just previously specified that I wanted #12 to be the split). Not the end of the world, I was really going to only use the keytar for one or two songs in one of my current bands, and I can just set up the split I want in a Performance on my Fantom X instead and play that from the Vortex. So no one else around here has a Vortex or has tried to do this operation? Rich Forman Yamaha MOXF8, Korg Kronos 2-61, Roland Fantom X7, Ferrofish B4000+ organ module, Roland VR-09, EV ZLX12P, K&M Spider Pro stand, Yamaha S80, Korg Trinity Plus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Have you done a factory reset (also in the quick-start guide)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richforman Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 No, will try that tonight (at my day job now) but I haven't actually saved any changes to anything, or I don't think I have. Might also stop at GC on the way home later on the odd chance that maybe someone in the keyboard dept there has learned the way around this axe. Anyway it's certainly a cool looking keytar, looking forward to brandishing it on stage! Rich Forman Yamaha MOXF8, Korg Kronos 2-61, Roland Fantom X7, Ferrofish B4000+ organ module, Roland VR-09, EV ZLX12P, K&M Spider Pro stand, Yamaha S80, Korg Trinity Plus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 No, will try that tonight (at my day job now) but I haven't actually saved any changes to anything, or I don't think I have. Given that you bought it online for Black Friday, it's possible that it was opened and played then reboxed with non-factory settings. Possible. A reset wouldn't hurt. Might also stop at GC on the way home later on the odd chance that maybe someone in the keyboard dept there has learned the way around this axe. I'm sure the staff at GC would love to help you with something you didn't buy from them. Anyway it's certainly a cool looking keytar, looking forward to brandishing it on stage! Yeah, was looking at picking one up myself, but the $99 deal never made it up to Canada, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richforman Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 Will have to fake that I'm in the market for one and not let on that I already bought it! Rich Forman Yamaha MOXF8, Korg Kronos 2-61, Roland Fantom X7, Ferrofish B4000+ organ module, Roland VR-09, EV ZLX12P, K&M Spider Pro stand, Yamaha S80, Korg Trinity Plus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 There's also the possibility that it's -gasp- defective. I ordered one from B&H as it was a pretty good deal, GST, provincial tax, duty and all. I kept it for a sum total of 48 hours, wondering why I couldn't figure out how to use it. I then realized that the pitch bend and accelerometer were sending completely random information. I guess at that price you have to expect some manufacturing QC issues. I'd still buy another one if people are happy with theirs. I guess I just got a lemon. Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukskywalker Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 There may be another way to skin this cat. I haven't tried to program a split in the Vortex yet but instead have it talk to a keyboard that is already split and still receiving on one channel. That way I can use the Vortex octave buttons to play "around" the split point. Useful to me because it's not like I can "play" a split with only my right hand on the Vortex, i.e. left hand bass with piano. I'll try the Vortex split tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I just bought one on the Sweetwater Black Friday Sale it went back order but is arriving today. For $99 it was a great deal, I'm hoping to use it with the ipad synths I have been collecting. Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob L Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I had the same problem with my Vortex. As I recall, you just exit Patch Edit mode WITHOUT hitting the enter key and the split is OK. At any rate the documentation that comes with the Vortex is wrong. Korg CX-3 (vintage), Casio Privia PX-5S, Lester K, Behringer Powerplay P2, Shure 215s http://www.hackjammers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richforman Posted December 13, 2013 Author Share Posted December 13, 2013 Bob L. - thanks, I will give that a try! I agree 100%, my conclusion is that the documentation is wrong. zukskywalker - yup, that's what I was planning to do as an alternative, just implement the split in a setup on my sound source and receive both zones on a single midi channel, so that I don't have to do anything on the Vortex. Rich Forman Yamaha MOXF8, Korg Kronos 2-61, Roland Fantom X7, Ferrofish B4000+ organ module, Roland VR-09, EV ZLX12P, K&M Spider Pro stand, Yamaha S80, Korg Trinity Plus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukskywalker Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Yeah , that octave button on the Vortex can get you into some serious trouble. Up and down the full range in no time at all. Plenty of room on either side of a split to hit almost any note, quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob L Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 richforman - Good luck,. I don't have my gear set up or I would step though the process and give you the specifics. At any rate, skipping the "hit enter" bit is key. You'll have fun with the Vortex once it is programmed! Korg CX-3 (vintage), Casio Privia PX-5S, Lester K, Behringer Powerplay P2, Shure 215s http://www.hackjammers.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richforman Posted December 16, 2013 Author Share Posted December 16, 2013 Things got a lot easier once I downloaded the pc-based patch editor, forget the name of it offhand, but anyway in that I was able to get a couple patches saved with the split point and octave-shifts-per-zone values I wanted. There is a very weird aspect to the editor, where if you make changes to the selected patch, and then pick another patch #, instead of let's say discarding your changes or prompting you to save to them to the previously selected patch # before bringing up the newly selected one - what you'd pretty much expect from just about any program! - instead it automatically saves your current changes to the patch number you just selected, overwriting whatever was in that patch before. So you have to be really careful about that. Luckily I don't have to go too crazy with the programming, I only tend to use keytar as a fun novelty for a couple songs a night at the most and on songs with the simplest patch requirements and parts. Rich Forman Yamaha MOXF8, Korg Kronos 2-61, Roland Fantom X7, Ferrofish B4000+ organ module, Roland VR-09, EV ZLX12P, K&M Spider Pro stand, Yamaha S80, Korg Trinity Plus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Every time this pops up, I get all excited and think I need to chime in, forgetting this is a keyboard forum. I sell, among other things, Vortex flow meters for my day job. So I get lots of emails looking for Vortex help! Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 And this forum has proved to be a vortex of my time. I need some help with that! Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 And this forum has proved to be a vortex of my time. I need some help with that! Is that where all the left socks go? My version of the vortex refers to the Von Karmen effect. In our case, we put a flexure in contact with a Piezo element downstream of a bluff body. The frequency of alternating vortices is proportional to flow velocity. Same thing that happens to a flag rippling in the wind. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr88s Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 My version of the vortex refers to the Von Karmen effect. In our case, we put a flexure in contact with a Piezo element downstream of a bluff body. The frequency of alternating vortices is proportional to flow velocity. Same thing that happens to a flag rippling in the wind. Exactly. Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukskywalker Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 So J. Dan... Might you be the person that could explain the pair of piezo's mounted inside the Vortex? Piezo's seem to deal with stress and flex from a novice point of view but I'm not quite getting what purpose they might serve here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewImprov Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 And I thought you were talking about this, one of my favorite rack effect units: http://ampandguitar.com/shop/catalog/images/Lexicon-Vortex.JPG I have one, and it's magic on Rhodes, and it integrates with modulars really nicely, you can use control voltages to control the effect "morph" function, which pretty crazy. Turn up the speaker Hop, flop, squawk It's a keeper -Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Just one Piezo. It's just like a condenser mic. The flexure vibrates back and forth from the alternating vortices and the piezo picks it up just like a piezo pickup would pick up vibrations of a guitar string or a condenser mic would pick up your voice, except it's in direct contact with a rod coming off the flexure. That's not even the coolest technology. I also have magnetic flow meters that operate on faraday's principle: they induce a magnetic field and any conductive fluid flowing through it generates a voltage on a pair of electrodes proportional to the flow rate. But the coolest by far is Coriolis. We split it into dual tubes bent in a U shape. The tubes are kept vibrating at their natural resonant frequency by a drive coil in the center. There are pickoff coils (magnet and coil) on the left and right legs of the U. We read sine waves back that, at no flow, are identical. When you flow through, the mass pushing against the moving walls of the tubes creates a twist. The sine waves between the left and right pickoff coils shift. The time lag is directly proportional to mass flow. The tube frequency is inversely proportional to density. We can measure mass flow to +/- 0.05% of rate and density to +/- 0.0001 g/cc. We also measure temperature and from those 3 independent measurements we can calculate volumetric flow, % concentration! alcohol proof, net flow, and all kinds of other measurements. Sorry, geek end out for a minute...back to keyboards. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukskywalker Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Yummy stuff. Lotsa good test and measurement. I've played around with some TDR for antennae and waveguides to find cracks. Crazy accurate stuff. Can't post a pic from here but there are a pair of piezo's under the large pads that look like they're for velocity sensing or something. Dunno yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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