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Just did a shootout at GC today SV1 vs Krome vs MoxF vs CP4


Aussie_Chicago

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The performance in the video is very nice but I'm not sure that the capabilities/sounds shown off are the most useful in a cover-band/gigging situation.

Rich Forman

Yamaha MOXF8, Korg Kronos 2-61, Roland Fantom X7, Ferrofish B4000+ organ module, Roland VR-09, EV ZLX12P, K&M Spider Pro stand,

Yamaha S80, Korg Trinity Plus

 

 

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Its not a stage piano. Its a massive synthesizer module that happens to sport a superior courtesy keyboard and a few sweet piano sounds, heh. It speaks well of the instrument that it holds up under scrutiny from so many angles.

 

I can't imagine a better keyboard for someone who started on piano and veered over to synths. Its a 4-zone controller with a huge synth voice and you get back your piano technique as a bonus. I can see that its not the #1 choice for organists and they'll tend to go for the better purity and UI of a clonewheel or the real thing to begin with. Otherwise, its near perfect. Is there an iPad editor for this yet? If not, it should be considered. This is an instrument that could really benefit from easier access to the clockworks under the hood.

 

I don't even need this kind of keyboard now, having gone in another direction, but Mike's demos still have me stroking my chin and going "Hmmm..." a bit.

 

 

 

 

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

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Is there an iPad editor for this yet? If not, it should be considered. This is an instrument that could really benefit from easier access to the clockworks under the hood.

 

We have this:

 

http://priviapro.wordpress.com/2013/12/04/privia-px-5s-layout-for-midi-designer-iphone-and-ipad/

-Mike Martin

 

Casio

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The Big Picture Photography Forum on Music Player Network

 

The opinions I post here are my own and do not represent the company I work for.

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What, no Rolands in the shootout? I recently sat w/that new small Roland, wasnt bad after u sit w/it for awhile..It simply needs another octave.

 

At first I thought the PX5 was a bit sluggish, but then I sat w/it for a while. I have to sit w/a box for a bit. After playing the 5 I thought it to be a very usable axe. As far as the other sounds, besides ap and rhodes, use a module. The gigs I do dont call for sounds other than ap and occ rhodes, so I found it more usable, the more I played it. I thought the ap was improved enough over the px3 to stand on its own. Not meaning to jack the thread, as the header doesnt have the 5 in it.

 

The sv1 simply didnt have an action I liked, neither did the mox'x. The Chrome is something I wouldnt try, and if the action on the cp4 is anything like the mox8, that puts that out of the picture.

 

Is anyone here still using Rolands?

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Is anyoene still using Rolands? While I have been considering an MOXF8 to replace my S80 as my longtime "bottom board" for gigs, my Roland Fantom X7 will probably continue to hold the "top board" spot for a long time. Just tons of usable high-quality sounds and huge expandability via the SRX cards, great display/UI that makes it I think the easiest board I've worked with as far as creating and saving performance setups and editing sounds, and maybe best of all the incredibly easy to use sampling capability. Good layout for "playing the sounds" using the onbard knobs too.

 

Rich Forman

Yamaha MOXF8, Korg Kronos 2-61, Roland Fantom X7, Ferrofish B4000+ organ module, Roland VR-09, EV ZLX12P, K&M Spider Pro stand,

Yamaha S80, Korg Trinity Plus

 

 

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Korg is doing something different and interesting with the Krome, a low cost board with that kind of large set of sample data. I'm not sure, but I think what they are doing is storing the data in slow flash, and then loading it into RAM at startup, which would also explain the long boot time. Whatever they are doing is a new system for them... everything has to be done first by someone. OTOH, there are people who have posted that they would not buy a Krome because of the boot time, so still, there are trade-offs and you can't please everyone.

It's probably what Korg's doing, but memory is still cheap, gets cheaper, everything uses it, not just music tech, so music tech should be adopting it. What was a slow technology before is now fast enough to do the job of a more expensive technology of the past. Most mid-priced electronic music tech is warmed over versions of its old tech repackaged at a lower price point but keeping a lot of the old tech, hence NOR flash because it's easier to drop in to replace a previous ROM board. And NOR flash is still cheaper than it was. No reason for Yamaha to be still charging 300-400 USD or worse 300-400 UKP! keep paying the money and they'll keep charging you for it.!

 

(Edit: Also, when saying company X gives you more something at a given price than company Y, you also need to consider what company Y may be giving you something over company X as well. For example, in this case, most people say that Yamaha's action is better. Paraphrasing an old post of mine in another context, there are lots of features you can find in thousand dollar boards, but if you put them all into the same board, you don't have a thousand dollar board anymore.)

It's all horses for courses in any tech were there's competition but 740GB is *not* *huge*! If Yamaha had not described it as such, I would have no beef, but they did, so I pointed it out here. If you think 740GB *is* huge then carry on and ignore this and any previous posts I may have made.

 

In the end, I think what is most relevant is that you're not buying a box of specs, you're buying a design and sound set that works for you, and the R&D that went into creating that.

Even so you deserve to get some up to date spec and as memory is cheap, quite a bit of it.

 

TBH I haven't bought a new keyboard for 20+ years, just after DX7, D50 and Waldorfs and other than the Yamaha VL1, and some Kurzweil capabilities, things haven't changed much. You get combinations of stuff which was previously only available in specific single boards, lower priced and/or more capable version of older existing kit, brute force romplers, better or worse weighted keybeds and brute force single analogue emulators, so it's diminishing returns for me. Despite that I did get 4 boards, a Korg Microsampler, Krome 61, Volca Keys and XW-P1 in that order. The Microsampler and XW-P1 were discounted otherwise I wouldn't have bought and the Krome and Volca keys filled some niches my 20+ year old boards wouldn't, but nothing really I couldn't have lived without, in retrospect. I did look at the pricier stuff but couldn't justify the extra features for what I needed. Maybe some do use those boards to the full but they're probably in the minority. I know it works for other instruments, pay more get better, but it's still mostly diminishing returns, more about afluenza.

 

I'm sure the MOX is ok but it's got a small screen and low and pricey memory for a board in the price range, definitely not *huge*.

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It's huge--or at least large--compared to what Yamaha has previously offered at the price, and compared to what anyone else offers or has offered at the price except for the Krome. I'll allow them a little marketing license. There are far worse overstatements. Maybe in the UK you are less used to American advertising hyperbole. ;-)

 

NOR flash is used not because it's "easier" or cheaper than ROM, but because it's rewritable. I'm pretty sure it's more expensive than ROM.

 

Also regardless of the cost of whatever kind of memory, there are sometimes other costs. Like sometimes the architecture of the machine would have to be redesigned to accommodate more memory.

 

At any rate, with a 1 gb flash card, the MOXF can have 1.7 gb of samples, 1 gb of which can be re-written to accommodate whatever you want. No other board under the price of the Motif XF or Kronos can do that. Regardless of the semantics of what may or not be "huge," I think that makes for a pretty nice moderately priced board.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Well lets just stick with "stock sounds" hey ;) Outside of pianos, the PX5 library is a decent, but not great GM soundset..Which is fine as it is marketed as a Stage Piano primarily ne c'est pa?

 

I understand you are a Casio employee so you need to fly the flag, as it were, but the discussion, afaik, is about the keyboards "off the shelf", not what can be done later...although I daresay the MOXf has far greater capacity in this regard also ;)

 

Miden you speak as someone with detailed experience with PX 5S. As they have only just been released in Australia how were you able to acquire this level of familiarity with the PX 5S?.

 

BTW Casios RRP here is $1,999, street $1,599 so I guess there will be plenty of ex-demo ones from MF making their way across the Pacific.

A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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Again.... Memory is only part of the story. I played a mint condition, Yamaha P-100 this week that had a better hand-to-brain connection, and smoother, dynamic touch than the core, Native Instruments Kontakt pianos. The P-100's memory is in the low MB's, the NI pianos are quite a bit more. Granted, the older, Yamaha AWM sample has a dated, slightly artificial edge; but it still plays and responds similarly to the current crop of entry-level digital pianos. I could play a three hour, solo piano gig with the P100 (an early 1990's instrument); the current, higher MB computer based pianos would drive me nuts in about 10 minutes; there's a distinct lack of player connection and sound 'carry through' - sustain, to simplify. Granted, there are very playable software pianos; but those have extensive sound processing, and are either multi-Gigabyte with gobs of samples, or intensely detailed models which are usually CPU intensive.

 

What is done, programming-wise - after the the sample leaves the station, counts for a lot. While there are some very well crafted, high memory sounds among the various software instruments I own, there are also extremely playable and rich sounds in hardware instruments with lower amounts of RAM. About half the time I prefer particular piano and synth tones in my S90XS (Motif XS, essentially) to those in my MacBook or Receptor. Many times the lower memory, HD-1 pianos are more effective, live, than the monster, streaming pianos in the Kronos.

 

icarusi, I recommend sitting down with a Kurzweil PC3, or Yamaha Motif XS / XF. Don't think about the 'numbers', just let the instrument speak. Lot of good synth mojo in both of those keyboards. Heck, there's still plenty of juice to be wrung out of the Alesis Q-series instruments from the 90's; and those have around 20 MB of sample memory....

 

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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When I'm keen on any machine , I listen to it's sounds on YT , and then download and read it's online pdf manual to learn heaps about it.

I've even helped people with their keyboards by reading their own online manual (if I have time) :).

 

Brett

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When I'm keen on any machine , I listen to it's sounds on YT , and then download and read it's online pdf manual to learn heaps about it.

 

Brett

I can understand how you could make useful comments such as it has 8 sliders not 9 or similar.

 

I don't understand how someone with only this level of experience could be of assistance to the OP by telling them that what they would have heard when they played the board in GC would have been very ordinary, and delving deeper would make no difference.

A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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.....

Is anyone here still using Rolands?

 

I don't know. But if I was in Chicago I would surely check them out along with the Kawai stuff at Gands Music or GC if any of them have them. I would hunt down any Kurz I could find also. I live in BFE I can't checkout squat as far as current boards here unless it is Yamaha. I have to drive 120+ miles one way to test drive new stuff..

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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.....

Is anyone here still using Rolands?

 

I don't know. But if I was in Chicago I would surely check them out along with the Kawai stuff at Gands Music or GC if any of them have them. I would hunt down any Kurz I could find also. I live in BFE I can't checkout squat as far as current boards here unless it is Yamaha. I have to drive 120+ miles one way to test drive new stuff..

 

Where is BFE? Not familiar w/that. Luckily theres a non chained music shop here that carries a great selection of most brands and has a keyboard guy that is very knowledgeable from the old analogs to the latest. I do shoot over to Lauderdale. I walked into a Sam Ash over there, they had every conceivable keyboard on the market. So I spent an hour trying things, but 3 hours playing the VPiano. 1st time I ever ran into one of those, and the best dp Ive ever played.

Thats a Roland.

Of all the boards in this thread, Dave mentioned the Yam NOT having mox8 like action, so Im going to give 1 of those a spin. Havent seen one on this side yet.

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FWIW, I spent a little time with my MOXF 8 this weekend, and poking around the interwebs just to familiarize myself with the architecture of the synth and have made great strides in programming songs, performances and masters. I feel comfortable with the basics of each mode, and it didn't take anywhere near as long as I thought it would.

 

I mention this because of those of you who like me might be intimidated by the Yamaha way of doing things. I hadn't touched a Yamaha synth in 6 years so was basically starting again from scratch.

 

I'm loving the synth and am looking forward to gigging it this Friday.

 

aL

Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand.

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Yamaha's interface isn't nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. Just like any other piece of gear, there is a learning curve and once you get comfortable, it's pretty easy to navigate. I spend a ton of time doing splits and layer programming in performance mode on mine, creating master setups to send midi data to other boards etc. Voice editing, I use the computer software where you can see a lot of the parameters on one screen.

Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1

Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6

www.bksband.com

www.echoesrocks.com

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I was in Chicago Land this weekend to see Second City (hilarious btw)....was staying with friends in Naperville so I went to the local Guitar Center and fooled around for an hour.

 

My first chance to play the PX5S and I liked it is for the most part. I thought the primary piano sound and epianos were quite good for the money and the action was to my liking (although the keys have a little side to side wobble that I don't care for.) If I was starting over, it would definitely be a candidate (especially considering weight and price)

 

Also played a Kronos for the first time. Liked the sounds and versatility, but the boot time would drive me crazy. I have my keyboards in my office and occasionally (e.g. during long, boring conference calls) like to switch the keys on and play for a few minutes. The other thing was that one knob and one slider was missing (more of a comment on Guitar Center than Korg).

 

After I walked out, I realized I don't remember seeing a single Roland keyboard on display. Perhaps they were in the middle of re-arranging but I thought that was a bad sign for Roland. If you can't sell something like the VR09 (which I view as a good first pro keyboard for a youngster) at Guitar Center then you are in trouble. Again, this may be more of a comment on this particular Guitar Center than anything else.

Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact

www.stickmanor.com

There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman

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.....

Is anyone here still using Rolands?

 

I don't know. But if I was in Chicago I would surely check them out along with the Kawai stuff at Gands Music or GC if any of them have them. I would hunt down any Kurz I could find also. I live in BFE I can't checkout squat as far as current boards here unless it is Yamaha. I have to drive 120+ miles one way to test drive new stuff..

 

Where is BFE? Not familiar w/that. Luckily theres a non chained music shop here that carries a great selection of most brands and has a keyboard guy that is very knowledgeable from the old analogs to the latest. I do shoot over to Lauderdale. I walked into a Sam Ash over there, they had every conceivable keyboard on the market. So I spent an hour trying things, but 3 hours playing the VPiano. 1st time I ever ran into one of those, and the best dp Ive ever played.

Thats a Roland.

Of all the boards in this thread, Dave mentioned the Yam NOT having mox8 like action, so Im going to give 1 of those a spin. Havent seen one on this side yet.

 

I'm sorry. Around here BFE is something the stands for Bum F*** Egypt, which is in reality the state capitol of Illinois. Springfield, the true inspiration for The Simpsons.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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I'm sorry. Around here BFE is something the stands for Bum F*** Egypt, which is in reality the state capitol of Illinois. Springfield, the true inspiration for The Simpsons.

 

I have to take issue with this! As it states in Simpsons Wiki, "Matt Groening revealed that Springfield was named after Springfield, Oregon." And living next door to that city, I can vouch for the resemblance! ;)

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Matt used to live here. We all felt betrayed :laugh:

 

I can't find verification on this. I think the DJs on WYMG were full of crap.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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  • 10 months later...

Hey guys

 

It's been nearly a year since this thread started and I think the question is still valid... hence my replying to this rather than starting a new topic.

 

As far as I can make out, the landscape hasn't shifted much - I am in a similar (although not identical) position to the OP. I'm looking to replace my ageing Yamaha S90 (the original one) with a 88 key workstation. I'm really worried that although buying a MOXF or Krome would give me a much greater sound palette and modern interface etc, I would probably really miss the quality of the S90's keybed.

The S90 XS is pretty pricey and not sure I would get a lot of bang for my buck compared to the classic S90 I already have.

I have around £2k GBP budget.

I was leaning towards the Krome 88 for price and the touchscreen, but it has a lot of detractors, not least the keybed.

The MOXF8 is also up there, but the UI seems to have not moved on much from my 14 yr old S90!

 

Maybe a new keyboard is about to be launched? S90 XF perhaps? If so, this may lower the price of the existing gear and make it more viable - maybe bring the Kronos or Motif within range. Any insider insights from anyone would be appreciated!

 

There was a sound you could smell / like you were inhaling tomorrow.

Cameron Conaway, Bonemeal

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If you like the MOX, but are concerned about action and build, check out the S90XS - the next step up from the MOX. It's a heavier-duty keyboard, with more pro stage features. It has the same sound engine, plus a larger memory, additional piano sample. The action durability is way ahead of the MOX; so is the construction. AFAIK, the MOXF action is the same as the MOX. I've played a few MOX8's that had some mileage on them; the action seemed to need an alignment, or something - almost felt like loose teeth.

At 49 lbs, the S90XS is heavier than the MOX - at 32 lbs. But if you're already considering an SV-1 - which is only a few pounds lighter, the weight of the S90XS shouldn't be a deal breaker.

 

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt198/allanevett/743d3feac4e211c7b94c4869c490a7da_zpsa23f286c.jpg

 

BTW, there are plenty of third party Voices for the S90XS. I have some extremely well done Wurli and Rhodes ep's, plus several hybrid piano Voices that combine the larger, but darker S6 sample with the brighter CFSIII sample. These are some very playable pianos that are both expressive and can work in a variety of mixes.

 

Great board. Problem is I don't see them alot. In fact I am the only one I know that has one around here and gigging regularly with it. I wish it was shorter though.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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Thanks Outkaster - appreciated. I read your original post actually, that's what made me look into the S90XS as a possible replacement.

However, given how frequently I can afford to replace my master keyboard (and I just shelled out for a Prophet), I'm reluctant to pony up nearly 2k on a board that's already 5 years old!

My hunch is that they will launch a S90XF and then the XS may become cheaper. This is based on the naming of each S90 model vs the Motif range:

2001 - MOTIF

2002 - S90

2003 - MOTIF ES

2005 - S90 ES

2007 - MOTIF XS

2009 - S90 XS

2010 - MOTIF XF

2014 - ????

 

Hopefully someone who has an inside track at Yamaha may chip in!

There was a sound you could smell / like you were inhaling tomorrow.

Cameron Conaway, Bonemeal

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Well, being the OP I should give a "year later " report. I did end up with the MOXF8, and started using it for gigs, but over time I didn't feel like it was sturdy enough for gigging , already almost lost a few knobs etc. I did keep it purely for the vast sound palette I don't have otherwise but I have to say, I don't use it to its full potential, which is my fault. I would still recommend it but if your really using it for gigs a lot, I would go for the s90xs or even the s70xs, much sturdier build but also heavier.

I went out and got an SV-1 73 for the bottom board, in my case I use Rhodes sounds a lot more than any other sounds apart form Hammond which is covered already, and I still love the SV-1, have had 0 problems, love the instant interface which has come in handy more than once. And its very sturdy , solid as a rock .What I don't like is no screen and not enough favorite patches which can be a struggle on very dark stages . The action is getting better the more I play, was a bit sluggish to start with.

I did try out a MOX8 and a MOXF8, the actions are different from what I could tell, the mox felt a lot cheaper and lighter compared to the moxf, maybe it was my imagination, but it did feel different. The px5 is a great board for the money but I just didn't connect with it, the CP4 was great also, but at the time I figured I could get a lot more out of a MoxF8. I need to spend more time with the UI on the moxf, but hey, having all the retro boards I have , that's where I spend most of my time playing, the B3, the Rhodes, the Clav , the wurli, no matter what, none of the modern boards give you the satisfaction like the real thing !

"Ive been playing Hammond since long before anybody paid me to play one, I didn't do it to be cool, I didnt do it to make a statement......I just liked it "

 

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....And since last year, we also have the Rd800, the Forte , the FA 08 . I wouldn't hold out for a S90XF, I doubt that will happen. I was holding out for an SV-2 but that isn't going to happen either. The question is, do you need a workstation or a stage piano ? For me, I just needed a stage piano but went with the workstation to get more options, as it turns out I really didn't need that.

"Ive been playing Hammond since long before anybody paid me to play one, I didn't do it to be cool, I didnt do it to make a statement......I just liked it "

 

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Thanks Outkaster - appreciated. I read your original post actually, that's what made me look into the S90XS as a possible replacement.

However, given how frequently I can afford to replace my master keyboard (and I just shelled out for a Prophet), I'm reluctant to pony up nearly 2k on a board that's already 5 years old!

My hunch is that they will launch a S90XF and then the XS may become cheaper. This is based on the naming of each S90 model vs the Motif range:

2001 - MOTIF

2002 - S90

2003 - MOTIF ES

2005 - S90 ES

2007 - MOTIF XS

2009 - S90 XS

2010 - MOTIF XF

2014 - ????

 

Hopefully someone who has an inside track at Yamaha may chip in!

 

No problem. I got mine when the first released them Sept of 2009 when I was still with the Dukes. I liked it a lot and there was still some stuff from the S-90 I really liked when I got it in 2002. I had an S-80 before that and it still has things I like to this day. I am not sure an XF version of the S-90 will come out, it's been five years. The S-90 XS is still sold as a new board as the Hammond XK-3C is. I wonder if sometimes the manufacturers have hit a wall, kind of like how good will it get before there is diminishing returns on these keyboards?

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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I did try out a MOX8 and a MOXF8, the actions are different from what I could tell

 

 

They aren't different. They are identical and same keybed as the P105, 85,95, and DGX650.

 

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/synthesizers/sy-moxf/moxf8/

 

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/synthesizers/mox8/?mode=model

 

MOXF8 88 keys, GHS keyboard

 

MOX8 88 keys GHS keyboard

 

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