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Just did a shootout at GC today SV1 vs Krome vs MoxF vs CP4


Aussie_Chicago

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Spent a good 3 hours in GC today checking out some boards, apart from the questionable staff :crazy: , it was a ton of fun.

First I checked out the Nord stage, sounds nice, action not for me but better than a lot of others I tested, however, $4k over budget.

Then on to the CP4, of which the staff didn't even know they had one ??? Fantastic action and feel, great AP and very good EP sounds, other sounds not as great, by far the best feeling action of all, but at $2k, for basically a piano/ EP , a bit over budget, however, if you mostly play piano, this is THE board, also pretty lightweight.

Then onto the casio Px5s, again, staff didn't know they had one ?? very lightweight, good useable piano and EP sound, but other sounds didn't do it, and I really didn't connect with the action as much as I hoped for, the feel of the keybed just didn't feel right, of course just my opinion.

The onto the Krome 88, great sounds, fantastic Rhodes sounds, good grands, other sounds sounded good too, I liked the interface a lot more than the Mox, touchscreen a plus, BUT, the action just didn't do it, felt cheap and plastic, especially for an 88 keyboard.

Then to the MoXF 8 , wow, this thing sounds great, very very nice sound, authentic piano and great Rhodes, wurli's and acoustic , and the keybed felt right to me , more like the Cp4 but not quite as good, but best of the workstation's.

I was about to leave, then asked if there were any korg SV1's, he had one in stock but not on the floor, so he literally unpacked a brand new one out of the box. I see what everyone says about the "fun" factor, this thing was a blast to play, keybed felt great, by far the best Rhodes sound, decent AP but not on par with the CP4 or even the Mox, and it was pretty heavy, but not too bad. One concern was the knobs felt like they were about to break off in my hand, not the notched ones, the other ones, and this was out of the box new, so no floor demo beaten up job.

The whole point is Im looking at something to use as a bottom board for good AP, EP , and nice string, pads, maybe other sounds.I have a Hammond Sk2, but other than the wurli and clav, the extra voices just don't do it for me at all.

So,do I go for the Moxf8 with good feel, above average sounding AP and EP as well as a sequencer, and a ton of other sounds, go for the SV1 that was fun as hell to play with a fantastic Rhodes sound, good AP but not much else, or spend the extra and get a CP4 , again, not much more than a damn fine piano, and the best feel / action ? I mostly play funk , soul, blues , rock with a few bands , it will be a gigging keyboard.

"Ive been playing Hammond since long before anybody paid me to play one, I didn't do it to be cool, I didnt do it to make a statement......I just liked it "

 

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Then to the MoXF 8 , wow, this thing sounds great, very very nice sound, authentic piano and great Rhodes, wurli's and acoustic , and the keybed felt right to me , more like the Cp4 but not quite as good, but best of the workstation's.

 

So,do I go for the Moxf8 with good feel, above average sounding AP and EP as well as a sequencer, and a ton of other sounds...

 

I mostly play funk , soul, blues , rock with a few bands , it will be a gigging keyboard.

 

Yup... I think this is the one.

http://www.soundhouse.co.jp/shop/prod_img/y/yamaha_moxf8b.jpg

 

 

"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo
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To be fair, the next time I do this, I think I will need to do it through some quality headphones , all the different boards were hooked up to different monitors / amps . I wish the staff were more helpful to get me going through each board, but this is the only store that has all the boards Im looking at......

"Ive been playing Hammond since long before anybody paid me to play one, I didn't do it to be cool, I didnt do it to make a statement......I just liked it "

 

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The acoustic piano on the Yamahas are truly great. But for a good bottom board, I'd probably go for the SV-1. There is a ton of onboard tweaking you can do on it, and anything you can't you can probably do through USB. Given the styles and sounds you site, that seems to be the best bet with the MOXF as the obvious alternate. For the price, you really can't beat what the MOXF does, but there will definitely be a learning curve there.

Soul, R&B, Pop from Los Angeles

http://philipclark.com

 

King Super 20 Alto, Yamaha MX61, Roland VR-09, MicroKorg XL, Maschine Mikro, M-Audio ProKeys88sx, Roland MKS-50

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Re the MOXf 8 - as you say a great axe but if you are gigging it, be aware the casing is ALL plastic and it is quite flimsy. Always buy a hard case roadcase for it. Do not rely on those "bags".

 

I gig mine with a hardcase, but even then I am almost paranoid in how it gets loaded and stacked.

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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Re the MOXf 8 - as you say a great axe but if you are gigging it, be aware the casing is ALL plastic and it is quite flimsy. Always buy a hard case roadcase for it. Do not rely on those "bags".

 

I gig mine with a hardcase, but even then I am almost paranoid in how it gets loaded and stacked.

 

And that is a great point, both the Mox and the krome felt a little plastic to me, that's where the Sv1 and the Cp4 win on that front. Both the Moxf and the Krome have great sounds on top of the ap's and ep's, I just wasn't sure if I wanted a workstation to slop to gigs. It would get plenty of use in the studio too, its going to be a hard decision, a lot for the money with the Mox, with a lot of other possibilities for studio use, save some money and get the casio Px5s, good sound, but I personally didn't connect with the keybed, get a sturdy solid Sv1 with limited sound, but probably more road ready than others and a great feel, or spend big and get Cp4 , again limited for sounds and studio. If I was playing strictly jazz or straight out piano, the Cp4 wins, but Im thinking I need more of an all rounder.... :confused: The Krome 88 would be a contender if it wasn't for the keybed / action, if I was going for a 61 synth, would be a hard decision between the Moxf6 and the krome6, both felt good for the 61 models, the krome would probably win just for the touch screen interface alone, both great sounding boards.

"Ive been playing Hammond since long before anybody paid me to play one, I didn't do it to be cool, I didnt do it to make a statement......I just liked it "

 

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I hear ya ;) it is a tough call. As I only run a single deck these days (too many years double and triple decking :crazy: ) , I am happy with the all round capability of the MOXf..but in your case as it is just for the bottom the choice is a LOT more difficult..

 

Oh one thing with the MOXf "graded hammer action" keybed (the cheapest in the Yamaha line-up) its response to rapid notes is not all that good - for example if you get to demo again, try playing the notes in Apache and you will get what I mean..technique probs contributes, but the "bounce" is far better on the higher end "Balanced Hammer Action" imo.

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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One more point to remember... with the flash, you can load other APs and EPs into the MOXF. I would be surprised if you couldn't come up with an EP you liked as much as what's in the SV1 (that seemed to be the one place you felt it was sonically superior). So that reduces the SV1 attributes you really can't bring to the the MOXF to the feel of the keyboard and the fun factor of the interface. (Not that I'm suggesting that either of those are insignificant.)

 

Another aspect you may want to consider is the ergonomics of how whichever board you end up with will stack with your 2nd board.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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If you like the MOX, but are concerned about action and build, check out the S90XS - the next step up from the MOX. It's a heavier-duty keyboard, with more pro stage features. It has the same sound engine, plus a larger memory, additional piano sample. The action durability is way ahead of the MOX; so is the construction. AFAIK, the MOXF action is the same as the MOX. I've played a few MOX8's that had some mileage on them; the action seemed to need an alignment, or something - almost felt like loose teeth.

At 49 lbs, the S90XS is heavier than the MOX - at 32 lbs. But if you're already considering an SV-1 - which is only a few pounds lighter, the weight of the S90XS shouldn't be a deal breaker.

 

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt198/allanevett/743d3feac4e211c7b94c4869c490a7da_zpsa23f286c.jpg

 

BTW, there are plenty of third party Voices for the S90XS. I have some extremely well done Wurli and Rhodes ep's, plus several hybrid piano Voices that combine the larger, but darker S6 sample with the brighter CFSIII sample. These are some very playable pianos that are both expressive and can work in a variety of mixes.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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You DO know that MOXF allows user sample loading and there might be even better pianos and other sounds waiting to be loaded into it? ;)

 

 

About the flimsy build - guys, did you expect Yamaha to build an 25lbs 88hammered board out of solid titanium?

Yeah, they had to let metal frames go. When I first unpacked my mox it felt cheap and flimsy to me too. But after a while I realized it's gonna be ok because it's Yamaha and I really should trust their engineers since they've been doin their thing for about 40 years now.

 

Still, some corners are cut too much, but since it also costs next to nothing (if you consider it's almost Motif and for most people, like the OP, it's really a full blown Motif)

 

I am happy with mine.

Stage: MOX6, V-machine, and Roland AX7

Rolls PM351 for IEMs.

Home/recording: Roland FP4, a few guitars

 

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I was doing the same sort of search for a bottom keyboard. I just pulled the trigger on the moxf8. What pushed me over the edge was the availability of third party samples such as the Chick Corea Rhodes sample available for free till the end of the year from Yamaha. I've always thought the Motif sample set was solid anyway. I don't mind the plastic case, but it's not rock solid like my Nord Stage.

 

What I must have forgotten is the insanely cryptic manner Yamaha does things. I thought I could set up a song fairly quickly based on my former experience with a Yamaha S80 and Motif ES but I guess I'm Waaaaaay rusty. It'll come back but it will take a lot of time, I can tell.

Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand.

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FWIW, in your situation I'd go with the MOXF8. It'll cover anything you're likely to throw at it, the sample set is solid (and can be added to via flash) and your back will thank you on the weight. Re: the SV1, when I had it, I was OK with the AP for a while, but gradually but fairly rapidly got dissatisfied with it.

Yamaha P515 | Yamaha CP4 | Yamaha MODX 8 | Casio PX S1000 | Nord Electro 5D | Moog Sub 37 | Korg Monologue | Native Instruments Maschine MK3 | Novation Circuit Tracks | Plug-ins Agogo

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I am also a fan of the MOX sounds. The preset library is huge, and full of sounds that are very musical and usable.

 

Even if nothing else, I personally recommend learning how to tweak the effects and EQ of the MOX presets.

 

One-button access to the 16 sounds in a User Bank has always been a big plus for the the Motif and MOX instruments. Very handy when playing live. It's great to have 16 of your go-to sounds (edited, if necessary) available with a single button press.

 

Michael

Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/keybdwizrd

 

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I was doing the same sort of search for a bottom keyboard. I just pulled the trigger on the moxf8. What pushed me over the edge was the availability of third party samples such as the Chick Corea Rhodes sample available for free till the end of the year from Yamaha. I've always thought the Motif sample set was solid anyway. I don't mind the plastic case, but it's not rock solid like my Nord Stage.

 

What I must have forgotten is the insanely cryptic manner Yamaha does things. I thought I could set up a song fairly quickly based on my former experience with a Yamaha S80 and Motif ES but I guess I'm Waaaaaay rusty. It'll come back but it will take a lot of time, I can tell.

 

I am happy to read this. As everyone knows I am a huge fan of the motif family and their sampling ability. You will not regret your decision.

 

By the way, I highly recommend Motifator.com. A very helpful users group website.

'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo
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Wow, I am in about the same spot as the OP and some others - have been thinking a lot about replacing my venerable S80 as my 88-key "bottom board," mainly to lessen the schlepping weight - had thought a lot about the PS5X and loved the action, price, weight, and ap/ep sounds but was somewhat underwhelmed by the non-piano sounds; have been mainly considering the Krome 88 vs. the MOXF8 - played the Krome at GC and loved pretty much everything about it EXCEPT the keybed feel - spongy - as many others here on the forum have confirmed they felt similarly. Haven't gotten a chance to see/play the MOXF8 yet but I already know it has great feel/action and tons of great sounds and the availability of more - same weight as the Korg - only drawback to it, and I know this from my experience with the S80 and from many comments around here confirming it - is that the functionality and UI, as far as tweaking sounds and setting up performance setups - is much clunkier and slower compared to the Krome's color touchscreen. (Also the fact that, unless I'm mistaken, as with my good ol' S80, it still has the Yamaha limitation of just four parts per performance set up?, that just sucks compared to all other workstation/performance keyboards, most of which have 16!) Really I am still considering the Krome and want to make another trip to the store to play it some more to see if I can convince myself that I can get used to the action - of course it's a long term commitment and I would be playing it every weekend for years so I have to be sure I really like it. Hopefully they will have an MOXF8 at GC or Sam Ash so I can play with that too. Oh well, this didn't add much to the discussion but it's nice to know there's a consensus and common feelings on a lot of these issues.

 

Rich Forman

Yamaha MOXF8, Korg Kronos 2-61, Roland Fantom X7, Ferrofish B4000+ organ module, Roland VR-09, EV ZLX12P, K&M Spider Pro stand,

Yamaha S80, Korg Trinity Plus

 

 

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One-button access to the 16 sounds in a User Bank has always been a big plus for the the Motif and MOX instruments. Very handy when playing live. It's great to have 16 of your go-to sounds (edited, if necessary) available with a single button press.

 

You really need to learn Master Mode, if you're using User Banks you're missing a HUGE feature of the Motif/MOX/MOXF series.

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One-button access to the 16 sounds in a User Bank has always been a big plus for the the Motif and MOX instruments. Very handy when playing live. It's great to have 16 of your go-to sounds (edited, if necessary) available with a single button press.

 

You really need to learn Master Mode, if you're using User Banks you're missing a HUGE feature of the Motif/MOX/MOXF series.

 

+1

'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo
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Allan speaks the truth. But be warned the stock pianos patches in the S90XS may not suck but they do lick a little. If you go with the S90XS I can get you some pianos patches I use that work great live. I think I started a S90XS user thread where I posted links to some of these sounds. So a shootout with a virgin stock S90XS does not tell the true story. Those pianos can be made to sing.

 

The build quality is very good. The S90XS is a real pro instrument. The steel control panel is a huge plus over plastic in terms of durability and practicality. These magnetic LED lights will hold on to each end of the control panel and when you turn on only the row of LED lights on the end of these point inward towards the inside of the control you can see everything in pitchblack conditions.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41hG3kGVtWL.jpg

 

The zone control sliders is a huge advantage over rotary knobs when mixing mixing zones. It gives immediate visual picture just like a mixing console should. It is the real deal even if the sound library is one generation older.

 

I scratched up a end cap on my S90XS. I would like get some oak endcaps made for mine. The end caps the MOXF looks nice.

 

If you want too do another personal shootout head over to Gand Music and compare Kawai, Roland and Nord. See what you think of the MP-10.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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One-button access to the 16 sounds in a User Bank has always been a big plus for the the Motif and MOX instruments. Very handy when playing live. It's great to have 16 of your go-to sounds (edited, if necessary) available with a single button press.

 

You really need to learn Master Mode, if you're using User Banks you're missing a HUGE feature of the Motif/MOX/MOXF series.

 

+1

 

Actually, if you're using the typical approach of calling up Voices and Performances, unless you're controlling external MIDI gear, I'm not sure I see the benefit in using Master Mode over using a User Bank of Performance Mode (keeping in mind that it's perfectly reasonable to create a Performance that consists of nothing but a single Voice). Pretty much six of one, half dozen of the other, as far as I saw. (And if you're not doing splits/layers, even a User Bank of Voice Mode is just as effective.) I mean, if you're doing anything beyond picking single Voices (for which Voice mode is perfectly adequate), you would need to understand Performance mode; and once you do, I'm not sure that then learning Master mode really brings more to the table (again, unless you are using it in conjunction with other MIDI gear).

 

What I think may be more overlooked is the prospect of using Song/Pattern Mix mode, because then you still have "16 of your go-to sounds (edited, if necessary) available with a single button press" but you get the equivalent of the "patch remain" functionality where sounds don't cut off when you switch from one to the next, which is sometimes very useful. The trade-off on the MOX is that only 3 of the 16 sounds could have insert effects, but on the MOXF, that's increased to 8. Another trade-off, at least on the MOX, is that you lose the Voice/Performance function of being able to hit the Bank button and see a display of what sound you have assigned to each of the 16 buttons. And dealing with splits/layers in this mode is more challenging (each split/layered sound essentially takes up one of your 16 locations, and it's a bit cumbersome to set up). Each mode has its trade-offs. But after reading a lot about how Yamaha didn't offer the patch remain functionality typically associated with Roland and Kurzweil, I was surprised when I first discovered that there's a way to do it.

 

Of course, if you want to easily switch between Mixes (say, for patch remain among sets of your main go-to voices) and Performances (for customized splits and layers for particular songs)... voila, Master mode. ;-) But I'd only worry about that after first adding mastery of Mix mode to my knowledge base. Until then, again absent external MIDI devices, I don't see where Master mode adds much functionality.

 

p.s. -- remembered one other advantage of Master mode on the MOX... it was the only way to get four knobs to simultaneously control volume of up to four split/layered parts. Though that's no longer an issue on the MOXF.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Actually, if you're using the typical approach of calling up Voices and Performances, unless you're controlling external MIDI gear, I'm not sure I see the benefit in using Master Mode over using a User Bank of Performance Mode (keeping in mind that it's perfectly reasonable to create a Performance that consists of nothing but a single Voice). Pretty much six of one, half dozen of the other, as far as I saw. (And if you're not doing splits/layers, even a User Bank of Voice Mode is just as effective.)

 

You're suggesting that you'd rather have to reorganize your patches in a User Bank by selecting them then saving them in a specific memory location, instead of simply creating a reference list in Master Mode? Maybe you like juggling patch locations, but not me.

 

Of course, if you only ever use 16 patches, then you're okay... but I would wonder why someone bought a workstation if they only use 16 different patches on a gig, personally.

 

Master Mode allows you to create set lists and quickly reorganize/reorder them as the gig requires, no matter whether it's a Voice, Performance, Song, or Pattern being called up. NOT using Master Mode is like never getting your new Mercedes AMG out of 2nd gear. :cool:

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What pushed me over the edge was the availability of third party samples such as the Chick Corea Rhodes sample available for free till the end of the year from Yamaha

 

ONLY in the US :mad:

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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You DO know that MOXF allows user sample loading and there might be even better pianos and other sounds waiting to be loaded into it? ;)

 

 

About the flimsy build - guys, did you expect Yamaha to build an 25lbs 88hammered board out of solid titanium?

Yeah, they had to let metal frames go. When I first unpacked my mox it felt cheap and flimsy to me too. But after a while I realized it's gonna be ok because it's Yamaha and I really should trust their engineers since they've been doin their thing for about 40 years now.

 

Still, some corners are cut too much, but since it also costs next to nothing (if you consider it's almost Motif and for most people, like the OP, it's really a full blown Motif)

 

I am happy with mine.

 

Well actually it is not just metal frames it is also the casing...I am happy with mine too as I wrote, however a word of warning re the fragility of the model was warranted I feel :)

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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Master Mode allows you to create set lists and quickly reorganize/reorder them as the gig requires, no matter whether it's a Voice, Performance, Song, or Pattern being called up.

 

+1

 

I wish my Triton and M3 had a Master Mode. There are workarounds, especially with all the user banks the M3 comes with, but it ain't the same.

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
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Actually, if you're using the typical approach of calling up Voices and Performances, unless you're controlling external MIDI gear, I'm not sure I see the benefit in using Master Mode over using a User Bank of Performance Mode (keeping in mind that it's perfectly reasonable to create a Performance that consists of nothing but a single Voice). Pretty much six of one, half dozen of the other, as far as I saw. (And if you're not doing splits/layers, even a User Bank of Voice Mode is just as effective.)

 

You're suggesting that you'd rather have to reorganize your patches in a User Bank by selecting them then saving them in a specific memory location, instead of simply creating a reference list in Master Mode? Maybe you like juggling patch locations, but not me.

 

Of course, if you only ever use 16 patches, then you're okay... but I would wonder why someone bought a workstation if they only use 16 different patches on a gig, personally.

 

Master Mode allows you to create set lists and quickly reorganize/reorder them as the gig requires, no matter whether it's a Voice, Performance, Song, or Pattern being called up. NOT using Master Mode is like never getting your new Mercedes AMG out of 2nd gear. :cool:

 

The downer with MM is that a Master set cannot be selected via CC messages as can Performances and Voices (ie Bank and Patch #). A Master can be selected only via Sysex messages, a major mistake imo from Yamaha.

 

It is why I use either Song mode with the 16 available voices (and remember one can also set up splits and layers in song mode if you set the same channel to parts, and then adjust the key ranges. ;) ) or Performance mode.

 

Either one of which can be selected via CC remotely. So a setup (using an iPad) can be to have a chart (or running sheet) with a midi file linked on the iPad so that as soon as the chart is selected, the midi "control setup file" is sent to select the appropriate Song, or Performance on the keyboard.

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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Whatever 88-key unit you purchase, make sure it will fit in your vehicle. :cool:

 

http://www.soundhouse.co.jp/shop/prod_img/y/yamaha_moxf8b.jpg

 

That is a really good point I forget. I don't transport my own rig. The S90 is an aircraft carrier.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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You're suggesting that you'd rather have to reorganize your patches in a User Bank by selecting them then saving them in a specific memory location, instead of simply creating a reference list in Master Mode?

I didn't see much difference in effort between saving a sound to a User location vs. referencing it from a Master location. But...

 

Master Mode allows you to create set lists and quickly reorganize/reorder them as the gig requires

Ah. I almost never re-order things, so if there is an advantage there, that makes sense.

 

Of course, if you only ever use 16 patches, then you're okay... but I would wonder why someone bought a workstation if they only use 16 different patches on a gig, personally.

That might be the crux of the matter. I use more than 16, but not a whole lot more, certainly under 32 (two banks worth), so yeah, I could get to everything with pretty minimal navigation with User locations. Heck, I get through 90% of most gigs just within the main 16. Why buy a workstation? Because at least until the MX came out, you couldn't get these sounds I like out of anything that either wasn't a workstation, or (S70/90XS) didn't weigh a lot more than I wanted to carry around (and wouldn't have been any cheaper, either). Sometimes you just end up buying a whole lot of functionality you don't care about to get the few things you do. Now I'm transitioning to the MOXF because I want to load sounds into the flash. It's not about having lots of sounds, it's about having the exact handful of sounds I want. If I could buy a MOXF with no sequencer and no arpeggiator, I'd be perfectly happy. I use it for live gigging, I have no need for its "workstation" functions. (I do wish I could get it with 73 keys and aftertouch, though!)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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