Considering rig change - please weigh in

[David Emm]

The PX5S is clearly the new darling of some serious players with good reason. At present, nothing really beats it until you start looking at $2k+ digital pianos. They've been a bit back-ordered, but find a way to play one. It sounds like your ideal fix.

 

I'd add this suggestion: if you're not getting what you need out of the iPad VR-09 editor, why not? That's part of what makes the little guy such a powerhouse. The same goes for the Casio. Its fairly common now to see bundled editors for instruments. Get in there and customize until it fits. Both instruments' front panels are spartan, to be kind, but the editors open them up. Look into the user groups and behold the glorious utility. Between tweaking and patch downloads, you could be well-stocked with relative ease. Unless you're looking for space-cadet patches, you don't need to be a mega-programmer, just reasonably conversant with the basics. Editing is your friend, especially when all you need half the time is to modify the filter and envelopes.

 

A Kronos is a thing of beauty, but if you get used to those editors, you'll be miles ahead by adding just the PX5S. You don't need a workstation, just a slight step to the left in your approach.

 

 

 

[Dr88s]

If you can't justify $1000 for a PX-5S check out Pro Audio Star in Brooklyn, NY where I bought mine. You can ask them for a lower price.

 

I can certainly justify the price for that board, but not if I'm only going to use it as a MIDI controller as JustDan is suggesting I consider. There are plenty of cheaper controller options.

 

BTW, love your name. I got to be Ray Manzarek for an evening last year and play a Doors song with Robby Krieger. A musical highlight of my life.

[Dr88s]

I'd add this suggestion: if you're not getting what you need out of the iPad VR-09 editor, why not? That's part of what makes the little guy such a powerhouse. The same goes for the Casio. Its fairly common now to see bundled editors for instruments. Get in there and customize until it fits. Both instruments' front panels are spartan, to be kind, but the editors open them up. Look into the user groups and behold the glorious utility. Between tweaking and patch downloads, you could be well-stocked with relative ease. Unless you're looking for space-cadet patches, you don't need to be a mega-programmer, just reasonably conversant with the basics. Editing is your friend, especially when all you need half the time is to modify the filter and envelopes.

 

 

I can muddle around Amp and Filter ADSRs and LFOs to approximate most of what is in my head. For some reason, though, I could not get the VR09 to do what I thought it would do nor could I route the LFOs as I wanted. Most importantly, I found it hard to stop at precise settings on the ipad, even though I'm using a full size one. Once I'd settle on the perfect amount of pitch LFO vibrato, removing my finger would make it jump up an additional 20% or so.

[Mike Martin]

Since you have an iPad just finished a PX-5S layout for MIDI Designer. This gives you some more control at your fingertips when you may want to use the PX-5S's physical controls for other things. It works with the FREE version of MIDI Designer, although you have slide the "nag" panel up or down out of the way. It also works for iPhone / iPod Touch.

 

http://priviapro.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/px5md1.png

[AnotherScott]

I love the idea of being able to bring in new samples

That would be a major reason to consider the MOXF8, which would probably be my first choice to put under a clonewheel for a 2-board rig. But as you pointed out, it is still notably heavier and more expensive than the PX5S (and possibly even more so with the expense of the flash card, though there is a promo there at the moment). Also, it is notably deeper, which means your 2nd-tier organ can't be nearly as close to your 88 as it can if you use a Privia; and most people would also say the Casio action is better. This is why (getting back to an older thread) I'm still thinking that a Casio 88, a clonewheel, and a MOXF6 on top may be a pretty ideal way to go, if you're willing to consider 3 (lightweight) boards. Though even that combination of three boards won't necessarily get you everything you might want. I've been stymied by the fact that even the premium Nord Stage 2 as clonewheel choice in that scenario (which also adds aftertouch and some VA synth) doesn't have the low E I want there for the times I play LH bass. It's always something...

[Dr88s]

[ It's always something...

 

Ain't that the truth!

 

[ This is why (getting back to an older thread) I'm still thinking that a Casio 88, a clonewheel, and a MOXF6 on top may be a pretty ideal way to go, if you're willing to consider 3 (lightweight) boards. Though even that combination of three boards won't necessarily get you everything you might want.

 

It's funny how you went through the same process as me. Every time I want to simplify things, I end up considering adding more gear in the end. Three boards is a definite no-go.

 

I think the wildcard here is the Receptor. If I ever needed that exact sound to that particular song to get me through a gig, I could always sample it into Kontakt and play it from the Receptor. It's a pretty light unit which I have housed in a lightweight 2u rack bag. I see no need to add another board just to be able to import samples.

[AnotherScott]

I think the wildcard here is the Receptor. If I ever needed that exact sound to that particular song to get me through a gig, I could always sample it into Kontakt and play it from the Receptor. It's a pretty light unit which I have housed in a lightweight 2u rack bag. I see no need to add another board just to be able to import samples.

I like the MOXF not just for that, but also because I just happen to really like a lot of the sounds in it besides. But yeah, if your "missing piece" is just samples, there are other ways to go. If the needs are not extensive, cheaper/lighter/simpler than a Receptor, you might be able to do it on an iPad.

[Dr88s]

The Kronos is one of the few keyboards that can directly accept USB connection from a slave board, so even the PX-150 would work.

 

Very important point.

 

Presumably the USB controller must be class-compliant?

Anyone have any experience with non-class-compliant controllers?

 

 

[AnotherScott]

Presumably the USB controller must be class-compliant?

Correct.

[RudyS]

Presumably the USB controller must be class-compliant?

Correct.

 

What does that mean? (I know Sven is back , I googled but did not get it)

[spazzkey]

Since you have an iPad just finished a PX-5S layout for MIDI Designer. This gives you some more control at your fingertips when you may want to use the PX-5S's physical controls for other things. It works with the FREE version of MIDI Designer, although you have slide the "nag" panel up or down out of the way. It also works for iPhone / iPod Touch.

 

 

very cool! does the iPad connect to the px5s via usb? or is additional interface necessary?

[Dr88s]

What does that mean? (I know Sven is back , I googled but did not get it)

 

Class-compliant USB devices run without having to load drivers. I am a not a techie so I can't get into specifics, but any controller you might have which comes with a CD of drivers that you have to install during or prior to plugging it in to the computer's USB port for the first time is NOT class compliant. Most controllers I've had fall into this category, unfortunately.

 

It is the same problem plugging controllers into an iPad; they must be class-compliant if you hope for them to work.

[Dr88s]

[(I know Sven is back , I googled but did not get it)

 

Besides, Sven is too busy being an ambassador of goodwill to police this forum for people who should have googled stuff.

[Mike Martin]

very cool! does the iPad connect to the px5s via usb? or is additional interface necessary?

 

Just a USB cable and the Apple "Camera Connection Kit" for your iPhone or iPad.

[Joe Muscara]

very cool! does the iPad connect to the px5s via usb? or is additional interface necessary?

 

Just a USB cable and the Apple "Camera Connection Kit" for your iPhone or iPad.

I can confirm that the PX-5S works with the Lightning-equipped iPad and the corresponding "Lightning to USB Camera Adapter".

[RudyS]

What does that mean? (I know Sven is back , I googled but did not get it)

 

Class-compliant USB devices run without having to load drivers. I am a not a techie so I can't get into specifics, but any controller you might have which comes with a CD of drivers that you have to install during or prior to plugging it in to the computer's USB port for the first time is NOT class compliant. Most controllers I've had fall into this category, unfortunately.

 

It is the same problem plugging controllers into an iPad; they must be class-compliant if you hope for them to work.

 

 

Thanks!

[RudyS]

[(I know Sven is back , I googled but did not get it)

 

Besides, Sven is too busy being an ambassador of goodwill to police this forum for people who should have googled stuff.

 

True:) Just kidding around of course!

[Jazzmammal]

I'm going to put out a different pov here. Yes, I've double racked many times and yes I like the convenience of having one board set up for one thing and the other one ready to go with another thing. But and it's a big but I like the single keyboard schlep factor better. No big two tier stand for starters and no two trips back and forth carrying two boards.

 

For this I have a Kurz PC3 76. The PC3 is a major competitor to the Kronos. Both have their supporters and detractors. Sort of like comparing a Lexus to a Mercedes. Both excellent and if someone snapped their fingers and prestochango my PC3 gets replaced with a Kronos I wouldn't cry too many tears except for the fact I know my PC3 and I would have to learn the Kronos.

 

Both are killer keyboards.

 

I do all the same kind of stuff you're talking about. I use Setups and the Quick Access bank to set up my shows using virtually any sound I need from a great AP to a killer VA synth to a flute solo lead to a split keyboard with different sounds. Once I've created these Setups and pick the patches it's one button push right in the middle of a song to change things up completely. I have no need for two boards and neither do you really. My Kurz weighs about 40 pounds but it's one board, one trip and one very simple folding leg table type stand. No mixers, no double cables, different foot pedals, none of that.

 

To whomever posted that comment about not doing the swiss army knife keyboard things with various bands all I can say is I personally love that. I think it's great fun and I continually impress new players I've never gigged with before with all the amazing stuff I can do with my PC3. I think it's great.

 

Bob

[Dr88s]

JazzMammal,

 

Thanks for the perspective.

 

The reason I'd reject that proposal is that I am neither comfortable going with exclusively a piano action nor (as I am now) exclusively synth action.

 

This fact dictates that I have to have two boards. Unfortunately.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

My Kurz weighs about 40 pounds but it's one board, one trip and one very simple folding leg table type stand. No mixers, no double cables, different foot pedals, none of that.

OTOH, a Casio PX-5S plus a Yamaha MOXF6 (for example) together weight about the same as that Kurz, and I'd say it's easier to move 40 pounds of keyboard in two pieces than in one. The Yamaha can take and pass the output from the Casio (or vice versa) so you shouldn't need a mixer. A K&M 18880/18881 2-tier board moves assembled and compact in one piece and weighs about 8 lbs. Point being that there can be ways to address most of the apparent "shortcomings" of 2 boards with a little planning as to your specific choices, and you do get the advantages of weighted and unweighted actions, emergency backup, and more key "real estate" allowing you to grab multiple sounds without having to always set up splits in advance or worry about crossing boundaries. But if you're happy doing it all on your PC3, hey, it's a great board! I just might be tempted to at least keep a little Microstation in the car. Just in case...

[Jazzmammal]

I know, I've heard that for years. All I can say is since 1965 when I did my first gigs with a group of GI's in Japan I've never had a keyboard failure. Not one. The closest I got was when a wire came off one of my drawbars on my B3 around 1972 or so. On the next break I pulled the back off and soldered it back on. That's it.

 

Still I hear ya, maybe I've been living on borrowed musical time with that. All my boards (I've got 5 right now) are full size pro stage keyboards but I've been thinking of picking up that Casio XW-P1 just for giggles. It's cheap enough, very light and I could throw that in the back seat easily and it would get me through a gig in an emergency.

 

Bob