Is Cocktail Piano a dying art?

[The Wind]

I play solo piano but find lately there just isn't the demand for it. I'm trying to land some gigs for this holiday season and haven't had much luck.

 

The cruise ships are cutting out this position in favor of piano bar entertainers, the Elton John types.

 

And with weddings the DJ's have taken over!! the last few I went to didn't even have one. a friend of mine asked me to play, kind of like an afterthought with no pay so I declined.

 

There's a full roster of guys in my city and all the hotels go through 1 agency.

 

Are you guys finding it the same?

[allan_evett]

I play solo piano but find lately there just isn't the demand for it. I'm trying to land some gigs for this holiday season and haven't had much luck.

 

The cruise ships are cutting out this position in favor of piano bar entertainers, the Elton John types.

 

And with weddings the DJ's have taken over!! the last few I went to didn't even have one. a friend of mine asked me to play, kind of like an afterthought with no pay so I declined.

 

There's a full roster of guys in my city and all the hotels go through 1 agency.

 

Are you guys finding it the same?

 

The last solo, well semi-solo piano gig that was offered to me - but not taken - was a three-hour party that called for piano, and female vocalist. The pay was $25 each, and a meal.... Whip-de-dip.

Overall, it looks like our skilled craft has become cheap, and the buying public is clueless :idk .

Bah-humbug, already

[piano39]

I have been working more than ever doing solo piano stuff.

It is a lot different than it was years ago. The old standards (Gershwin, Cole Porter, etc) don't go over very well. More modern jazz, Doors, Elton John, Pink Floyd, etc. work really well.

 

Pay sucks, though.

[The Wind]

wow $25 for 3 hours?! that's less than minimum wage here! I got people offering a $100 for a whole night on NYE or Christmas. No thanks.

 

I normally try to get $75-100 an hour for gigs. Usually it's the corporate events that can pay it. for the person hosting a party at their house, those are the the cheapos where I would rather not play.

[stillplaying]

@OP Yes. Sorry for your loss.

 

My paid work is now all function band. Some well paid choir accompaniment earlier this year but that's it for a while.

 

Can you sing at all?

[Synthoid]

Overall, it looks like our skilled craft has become cheap, and the buying public is clueless.

 

For some of us, this is a sad fact. Reminds me of a two-hour winery gig that was only offering $50. No thanks.

[keyguy]

Live elevator music is alive and well here, and pays well. Getting ready to play a cocktail party after which my band plays the reception. Entire event done by 10PM...

[I-missRichardTee]

I have been working more than ever doing solo piano stuff.

It is a lot different than it was years ago. The old standards (Gershwin, Cole Porter, etc) don't go over very well. More modern jazz, Doors, Elton John, Pink Floyd, etc. work really well.

 

Pay sucks, though.

 

Beautiful.. I like your positive practical and up to date approach. Care to give more tune ideas, for an older player? I feel standards are limited unfortunately. Time is merciless ... I love some standards, but that was long time ago. Thank you for this!

 

edit do you have to ( do you? ) sing them?

Do you use an acoustic piano sound mainly as in cocktail PIANO, or how far away from ac piano only, sound do you recommend.. drum machines, synths?

[miden]

No offence meant to any posters, but really if playing music or not playing music is reliant on how much money you get, well to me, that is rather sad.

 

Sure times are tight and there is far more competition for gigs, but surely just getting the opportunity to play is worth something too?

 

I often play small cafes/bars/restaurants for a Tip Jar only - it is still a "hoot 'n a holler!" as much as full paying gigs are

 

Maybe I am missing something here, but that's how I look at it.

[willf]

I have been working more than ever doing solo piano stuff.

It is a lot different than it was years ago. The old standards (Gershwin, Cole Porter, etc) don't go over very well. More modern jazz, Doors, Elton John, Pink Floyd, etc. work really well.

 

Pay sucks, though.

 

From a UK perspective:

I agree that the old standards do not go over well now. The key seems to be to identify songs that the audience are likely know and play those; this is very much dependent on the venue (I suspect no surprises there). Elton John, Billy Joel and 'modern ballads' seem to generally work well. Some venues are happy with just a pianist others require a vocalist as well.

 

With regard to remuneration I find that weddings and corporate functions pay far more than cocktail bar type establishments. Ideally join a function band, play solo, or duo, in the afternoon and then with the band in the evening. For weddings organists are becoming rarer and this can work in your favour if you can do this as well.

 

 

[allan_evett]

No offence meant to any posters, but really if playing music or not playing music is reliant on how much money you get, well to me, that is rather sad.

 

Sure times are tight and there is far more competition for gigs, but surely just getting the opportunity to play is worth something too?

 

I often play small cafes/bars/restaurants for a Tip Jar only - it is still a "hoot 'n a holler!" as much as full paying gigs are

 

Maybe I am missing something here, but that's how I look at it.

 

 

In the bands I've played with - even over the past five years (which includes the 2008 market crash, and my relocation to a smaller market - which initially survived better than the midwest), it's been standard that all of the players get paid around $100 a night, sometimes more. I know that tiny restaurants, coffeehouses, etc. often don't pull in the same profits as a reasonably crowded club. But when a band can make around $500 a night at a club, surely a small, acoustic room could pay a piano player at least $100, vs. a tip jar and food/drink. I played for a couple of restaurants in Fort Collins in 2008 - 2009; both eventually went out of business (The restaurant market here is glutted, second only to SanFrancisco in number of establishments relative to population). One place paid me $100 a night (one night a week gig), and let me put out a tip jar. The other tried to progressively invert the pay vs. food/drink ratio as their business sank; considering that it was my first gig in town, I worked with them on that - as they slipped beneath the waves... Fall of 2008 and beyond has been a bear - thank you very much real estate speculators / Wall Street.

 

The problem with playing for exposure, pleasure, tips, etc. is that it ends up hurting the professional musician - who is trying to earn at least a part time income from live playing these days. Even some of my bandmates - who have extremely well paying day gigs - understand that, and won't play out unless decently paid. I've had to go into Denver to make any money as a band musician - since two cover band leaders in my area led the 'exposure', 'less money for more food/drink' race to the bottom back in 2007.

[area51recording]

No offence meant to any posters, but really if playing music or not playing music is reliant on how much money you get, well to me, that is rather sad.

 

Sure times are tight and there is far more competition for gigs, but surely just getting the opportunity to play is worth something too?

 

I often play small cafes/bars/restaurants for a Tip Jar only - it is still a "hoot 'n a holler!" as much as full paying gigs are

 

Maybe I am missing something here, but that's how I look at it.

 

Well, for those of us making a living at this (which I still manage to do) the money DOES matter I'm afraid. even though my totals are down from years past, between band gigs and solo gigs I still manage to play around 250 gigs a year, so I'm not exactly starving for a place to play no matter what the money, and I'd still like to get paid.....

[miden]

Fair enough Allan - that helps to understand your view

 

fwiw, I too have gigs as a source of family income - 50% music / 50% my other jobs. Still doesn't stop me playing even if for low $'s. Playing is far more important to me than money.

 

I disagree, only in a small measure , that doing these gigs hurts a fully professional muso, who probs would not even consider them in the first place.

[icarusi]

I don't, but I know a guy who does. He does the same venue 3 nights Mon, Tues and Sun. The Sun, was added for winter up to Xmas. He's an ebullient character and he's been doing it for years but now a dying breed. He's past retirement age and got ill a few years ago so has cut down but was doing 5-7 nights in different venues.

 

He's an old time pro who's done cruises, summer seasons etc. so he's good at networking and working a crowd.

[allan_evett]

Fair enough Allan - that helps to understand your view

 

fwiw, I too have gigs as a source of family income - 50% music / 50% my other jobs. Still doesn't stop me playing even if for low $'s. Playing is far more important to me than money.

 

I disagree, only in a small measure , that doing these gigs hurts a fully professional muso, who probs would not even consider them in the first place.

 

I understand better now, miden. The gigs you mention look to be of a different sort; we have some of those in my town - typically downtown coffeehouse / streetfront gigs - mostly stuff with accoustic guitars, mandolins, an occasional accordion. You're correct: I don't see those gigs cutting into income gigs. But the pro band market in the area has been impacted by those somewhat thoughtless leaders I mentioned earlier.

I've been tempted to pick up a lightweight, digital piano w/speakers to play a couple of those small, acoustic gigs - especially with some of the holes in my working schedule. Could do a soul well, and I'd be able to hear all of instruments / vocals for a change

[Cygnus64]

No offence meant to any posters, but really if playing music or not playing music is reliant on how much money you get, well to me, that is rather sad.

 

 

 

Maybe I am missing something here,

 

Yup, you're missing something here. It's not a choice between "playing music or not playing music", it's a choice between getting ripped off or not ripped off. For a gig like that, one is expected to follow "work" rules as far as dress/appearance, breaks, being pro/on time, all that good stuff. The music part might not be the actual "job", it's the other stuff.

[16251]

Solo piano has never been my strong point. You don't need a classical background, but I got to believe it helps, and I have a very primitive classical background. But, when I do have a gig, I'll play standards. The thought of playing Elton, Joel, or something current and breaking into a bebop improv section doesn't appeal to me.

 

To the players on this board, after you play the melody, what are you playing? Maybe, share an example?

[The Wind]

No offence meant to any posters, but really if playing music or not playing music is reliant on how much money you get, well to me, that is rather sad.

 

I often play small cafes/bars/restaurants for a Tip Jar only - it is still a "hoot 'n a holler!" as much as full paying gigs are

 

hey miden, I'm not talking about just playing for the fun of it. we can all do that at home. I'm talking about doing professional gigs for proper pay.

 

For me playing piano, I much prefer an acoustic grand to a digital keyboard on a gig. That's why I won't do coffee houses or cafes. I'm going for the 5 star hotels, private clubs and upscale homes.

 

I'm sure most of us have day jobs. I've been playing music since I was a kid and will do so for the rest of my life.

 

Even all the jazz bands in my city have it rough. The last true jazz club just closed down due to high rent. And the other regular venues, the restaurants have closed too.

 

Repertoire is another good topic. I like the standards but I've been doing alot of classic 80's, 90's rock. guys like Sting, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Bryan Adams, take those songs and re-work it for piano. Quite often people are rather surprised when I play a tune. They recognize it, but it takes a second to figure out.

 

Speaking of standards, there are some so overplayed that I refuse to play: Misty, Autumn Leaves, Stella by Starlight. what's on the list for you guys?

[The Wind]

 

From a UK perspective:

 

 

hey willf, I wouldn't mind hearing more about the UK scene. I used to live in London in the early 2000's. Back then I was just jamming for fun, met up with some jazz guys. Didn't actually do gigs, but I checked out places.

 

Ronnie Scotts seems to be set up for the tourists. 50 quid for cover, a royal rip off. Kinda like Blue Note or the Vanguard in NY. I did catch some good shows during the jazz fest.

[The Wind]

 

To the players on this board, after you play the melody, what are you playing? Maybe, share an example?

 

Normally I am playing a variation of the melody, even adding some of the exact melody notes within a 4 bar phrase. This helps keep you aware of the form. Another trick is to play the same intervals of the melody but start at a different pitch. That's harder and you need good ears.

 

you are right though, it would ruin a nice ballad by throwing in some bebop lines, think of the mood of each song.

[Moonglow]

I'm booked for a cocktail hour at a Christmas party this year. I'm solidly a "band guy" but land one or two cocktail gigs per year, usually weddings or private parties obtained through friends/WOM. Thanks for the tips from those of you who do more of this sort of thing. I will make it a point to work in some more contemporary tunes. I've been playing Misty, Autumn Leaves, etc., forever....

 

One thing I enjoy about playing a DP for cocktail gigs is using a piano/pad patch for couple of new age/atmospheric tunes. It brings a different "vibe" to the gig. Given the choice, however, I'm opting for the acoustic....no schlep involved!

[MAJUSCULE]

I play them every now and then, heading to a duo gig at a private party in a couple hours. 125 for a couple sets. I mostly do corporate and private parties. The best money is always at government-sponsored events. I'm talking Heritage Canada-funded french stuff. It pays to be a part of a small, organized community.

 

I'm working towards hitting the restaurant circuit more, though. Prospects are bleak, but I'll do what I can.

[The Wind]

MAJUSCULE- Heritage Canada eh? I'm just across the pond in BC, I'll have to look into that. although I don't think our french population is too big.

 

I try to not do restaurant gigs, most just give you a free dinner and pass the hat deal. the corporate stuff is where they have the budget to splurge.

[MAJUSCULE]

Yeah, you can generally negociate something pretty decent. I don't know a whole lot about BC, but if you're around Vancouver, Maillardville would be the place to start. But whether or not it's french, there are plenty of subsidised events around here that want cocktail or dinner stuff.

[I-missRichardTee]

No offence meant to any posters, but really if playing music or not playing music is reliant on how much money you get, well to me, that is rather sad.

 

Sure times are tight and there is far more competition for gigs, but surely just getting the opportunity to play is worth something too?

 

I often play small cafes/bars/restaurants for a Tip Jar only - it is still a "hoot 'n a holler!" as much as full paying gigs are

 

Maybe I am missing something here, but that's how I look at it.

 

The problem with playing for exposure, pleasure, tips, etc. is that it ends up hurting the professional musician - who is trying to earn at least a part time income from live playing these days. Even some of my bandmates - who have extremely well paying day gigs - understand that, and won't play out unless decently paid. I've had to go into Denver to make any money as a band musician - since two cover band leaders in my area led the 'exposure', 'less money for more food/drink' race to the bottom back in 2007.

 

There is your answer.

[willf]

 

From a UK perspective:

 

 

hey willf, I wouldn't mind hearing more about the UK scene. I used to live in London in the early 2000's. Back then I was just jamming for fun, met up with some jazz guys. Didn't actually do gigs, but I checked out places.

 

Ronnie Scotts seems to be set up for the tourists. 50 quid for cover, a royal rip off. Kinda like Blue Note or the Vanguard in NY. I did catch some good shows during the jazz fest.

 

I do not wish to hijack the thread but as you asked (and concentrating on the South of the UK):

Jazz in the UK is thriving with a large number of clubs and pubs catering for this genre. There are are more musicians than venues and so competition is pretty fierce and remuneration varies with pubs typically paying 1/3 of the amount a Jazz Club will pay. In the summer we have a number of sporting venues (motor and horse racing) that hire Jazz bands and again these pay well.

 

I haven't been to Ronnie Scotts for about 10 years and so I cannot comment on that venue .

 

In London and the South there are a large number of venues that cater for larger corporate events and these generally pay well, competition is again fierce and for some venues there seems to be a trend towards using DJs. Those that want musicians tend to be looking for 'covers bands' playing a range of music from the 60s onwards.

 

Weddings vary and so I cannot generalise too much. Some want an Organist, some want a solo pianist for background music, others want a band for the evening. But again, there seems to be a trend towards using DJs.

 

There seems to be a rise in the number of tribute bands and these seem popular, generally playing in local/provincial theatres and 'music pubs'. For example in the next fortnight there are a Doors Tribute Band and a Duran Duran Tribute band playing in my town.

 

 

[willf]

since two cover band leaders in my area led the 'exposure', 'less money for more food/drink' race to the bottom back in 2007.

 

It happens this side of the pond too unfortunately.

[willf]

Speaking of standards, there are some so overplayed that I refuse to play: Misty, Autumn Leaves, Stella by Starlight. what's on the list for you guys?

 

If I know it I will play anything, I am happy to be getting paid for playing - but I can fully understand your reluctance . If the venue owner/manager is happy then I am more likely to get a re-booking. In fact for some corporate events and weddings there is often a list of 'required songs'.

 

[willf]

Thanks for the tips from those of you who do more of this sort of thing. I will make it a point to work in some more contemporary tunes. I've been playing Misty, Autumn Leaves, etc., forever....

 

A tip I had many years ago was to listen to popular adverts on TV and play those tunes as people are more likely to know them - irrespective of whether they are standards or not.

[keyguy]

I'm booked for a cocktail hour at a Christmas party this year. I'm solidly a "band guy" but land one or two cocktail gigs per year, usually weddings or private parties obtained through friends/WOM. Thanks for the tips from those of you who do more of this sort of thing. I will make it a point to work in some more contemporary tunes. I've been playing Misty, Autumn Leaves, etc., forever....

 

One thing I enjoy about playing a DP for cocktail gigs is using a piano/pad patch for couple of new age/atmospheric tunes. It brings a different "vibe" to the gig. Given the choice, however, I'm opting for the acoustic....no schlep involved!

My experience is that if it's a private event, the focus is rarely on the music. The music only adds to the ambiance. Some times I think you could play the same song over and over, or noodle some pretty chords and no one would notice. But, just when you think no one is listening, several different stop by to tell you how nice the music is. I think at a venue like a restaurant bar, or similar, newer material would be required. But at the events I play, the Great American Songbook works just file. Just played one last night. YMMV.