A question on transcribing solos

[nadroj]

It's a well known fact/rule that in order for a player to get better at soloing in jazz music (or anything, for that matter) one of the best things he/she can do is not only to listen to and absorb as much of the music they're trying to play, but to transcribe and emulate solos/licks heard in order to build both their understanding and musical vocabulary. Every teacher I have/book I read/player I talk to tells me this. I accept this and from experience know it as fact. That's all very good.

 

My question however, is this: is written transcription important? When I first started out I used to write solos out. It would take me so long to write down two bars with a pen and paper, because I struggled to write out the often complex rhythms more than anything. And I understand that this was the only way most people were able to do it at one point in time, and that they had to constantly and painstakingly rewind and rewind the same split second part on their old cassette players, and that it was a nightmare and that thanks to technology some players like myself have become complacent, etcetc, I've had many an old timer rant at me and my peers about that, and I have accepted it.

 

So here's the thing: since June onwards I've started importing and slowing down the tracks I want to work on in software programmes like Logic/Audacity/iPerform, etc, and I transcribe everything from ear either into my memory or a video. I've completely stopped physically writing out my transcriptions. The result is faster development: I've learned more licks/more about my physical playing in 6 months than I did the year or two before. So the results are good in the short run, but will me no longer writing what I transcribe out affect me later on? For example, me struggling to write out difficult rhythms: if I don't work on this now, my ability to effectively sight read complex rhythms won't improve. And there are some things you simply can't get by pure hearing - as I once said, my teacher once told me that he spent days wondering why he couldn't get an old Oscar Peterson solo sounding just like it did on the track. When he came to examine his written transcription, he realised that he was placing the emphasis on one of the notes an 8th behind what it should have been; that little 8th beat changed the entire dynamic of the run. It's difficult to notice things like that without spending the time writing them out/reading them.

 

Basically, if you guys are transcribing licks, how do you do it and why? Do you write them down? Play from ear into memory? Listen once and then do your own thing with the general idea? Maybe you don't even work at it/copy solos - maybe to you transcribing is for chumps; you just hear something, feel it and are able to groove it straight away. That's fine - I'm interested in any and all opinions!

 

Thanks in advance folks, you guys seem to put up with a lot of repeated questions/topics a lot, but are always helpful regardless. It's appreciated!

 

-J

[bgregg]

I find if I don't write it down, I tend not to remember it. There's also a level of learning involved in breaking it down enough to write it out that I don't get any other way. I guess I'd add that the things I feel motivated enough to "transcribe" as opposed to just "learn" tend to be a little more ambitious, though.

[Jazz+]

Mulgrew Miller told me he never transcribed anybodies solo.

[moj]

Makoto Ozone told me he transcribed Oscar Peterson's recordings. Watched him play a couple of them in person.

[MAJUSCULE]

Mulgrew Miller told me he never transcribed anybodies solo.

 

He told me the same thing. He followed by saying that he listened a lot, though. And that every great player he knew was a great listener - if they didn't actually transcribe, they were still picking things up.

 

I don't always write stuff down. I think it's more useful in terms of analysis, figuring exact chord-scale relationships, etc. It can still be done without writing, but it's easier.

 

I do find that my accuracy is closer to 100% after writing it out. I agree with the OP about rhythms being clearer/easier to understand and execute when it's written out.

[TrapperJack]

Hi Nadroj, the fact that you find (or once found) writing out "transcriptions" so difficult shows that you had a frontier before you, and once you had crossed it, in my view, you would forever be a better player/musician.

 

The limitation would be apparent in other areas of your performance, too.

 

Try to work out why it was so challenging for you, and develop your own little program of activities so that you grow to meet and overcome the challenge. And, be heartened, it often seems immeasurably difficult, for a few weeks, but within a few months even you will acknowledge you have stepped onward, and stick at it, for within a year, you will be much, much more skilled. In two years, the benefits will have passed into your other playing/music writing activities.

 

Overcoming a series of these "challenges" is what walks a musician from being OK, to being a "black tie player", a "first call player", "a studio player", etc. Think about it.

 

But, do both: play some, write some. It's not all school -- have some fun, too.

 

PS I would follow Makoto Ozone to the end of the Earth. He can play.

[NeverTooLate]

Have you tried just writing down the notes without rhythm? For me, bar lines are usually enough; I can easily remember the rest.

[I-missRichardTee]

No harm in just listening and imitating directly on the instrument, without writing down.

Ear/mind/ hand connection is so vital to improv... but the aspect of the mind that is more immediate than writing..namely playing directly.

[MAJUSCULE]

I would add that there's an interesting confusion about the word transcribing around here. People are never really sure whether it necessarily means writing it out, or just lifting. In my mind, and it seems, the best players around here, it's both.

[Reezekeys]

I've never transcribed a solo. Playing a transcribed solo uses a completely different skill set than improvising one. Transcribe a solo, or a whole song or arrangement, because it's good ear training. The ability to hear harmony and pitches is a great skill to have. If you think that transcribing a solo will somehow unlock some magic that will have you soloing better, I would disagree and wish you luck. Just listening to good soloists, learning theory, and most importantly playing with other good players is what will help your soloing. In my humble opinion of course.

[Bobadohshe]

If you think that transcribing a solo will somehow unlock some magic that will have you soloing better, I would disagree and wish you luck.

 

It's not the magic path but it's certainly part of this balanced breakfast. At least for me.

[MAJUSCULE]

Part of it is also what you do with the transcription. Puking it out over one set of changes won't help you much, but transposing, adapting licks, using it as a starting point can all help.

 

One of the best solos I ever took was in the days following a Tommy Flanagan transcription. I was feelin' his vibes.

[Dave Ferris]

I've maybe transcribed 2 solos in my entire life. Part of Jarrett's Bop-be, and part of Armando's Rhumba by Chick. This was maybe around '78 before I moved to Calif.

 

I did learn dozens of transcriptions with Charlie Shoemake when I was with him from '79 to '82. All be-bop. Bud, Bird, Sonny Rollins Clifford Brown, etc.

 

However I can say I haven't worked on playing an entire solo since I left Charlie 32 years ago. But to this day, the magic formula for seeing new lines and basically not falling into a rut and playing the same old sh*t--is to take 1,2,,3,4 bar sections , depending on the complexity of the line/phrase, and transpose to all 12 keys.

 

RH alone with corresponding LH voicing. In parallel octaves with both hands 2 octaves apart. And LH alone. When the LH gets solid, I add a RH voicing that matches up with that melody.

 

Many have never believed in doing this sort of thing..but for me it's the most important part of my jazz practicing. I notice if I slack off from this for a week or so, I stagnate.

 

I think you get more out of this then by transcribing because you're physically at the instrument working the fingerings along with hearing the line and seeing the shape in all 12 keys.

 

Let someone else do the grunt work with the transcribing. My work comes in what you do with the solo.

 

I will say however, most of my lines/melodies/phrases/chord voicings that I do work on today are my own. I have 3 notebooks full of ideas that I refer to. As well as composing new stuff every day. I think it's good to write/compose a few bars of your own every day.

[Bobadohshe]

But to this day, the magic formula for seeing new lines and basically not falling into a rut and playing the same old sh*t--is to take 1,2,,3,4 bar sections , depending on the complexity of the line/phrase, and transpose to all 12 keys.

 

Man I fully agree with you on this. That's why I see Transcription as only part of the equation. What you describe above is how you take what you've transcribed, be it a lick, couple bars, chorus or entire solo and ABSORB and EXECUTE it.

 

One other note about transcription, I think it can really help your feel. If you are looping 4 seconds of an Oscar Peterson solo over and over, and get it to where you can play along with it so that Oscar disappears, you step inside his swinging shoes, which is a good thing.

 

Note: I'm not talking about written transcription necessarily here. I'm simply talking about taking something off a record.

[Dave Ferris]

Yes, playing transcriptions can definitely help your feel. Like I said, I went through probably close to 50 of those solos with Shoemake and for me at that point, where I was at, it was an integral part of my overall development for getting a true swing/bop feel.

 

Talking of looping a 2-4 bar section--it also helps if you can get it up to tempo or even experiment with it and try to play at faster tempos. If it's written at say half note = 80...you can always try to goose it up 100, 120 or in some extreme cases maybe 144. Of course this depends on way the line flows. Too many 16th note triplets, 16th notes or wide intervals--then it becomes too much time spent to play it cleanly and keep it in a groove at that tempo.

 

Also as I've always said in the dozens of posts I've made on this subject. You still have to play with people, preferably the best level you can find, to fully develop. Practice just becomes that--*practice* - when playing with real players. This should go without saying of course. But playing & practicing go hand in hand.

[MuzikTeechur]

I've transcribed quite a few solos.

A few observations:

* It makes little sense to transcribe a solo if you can't play it and really absorb it at the end of the process, unless you're just trying to understand the theory

* With faster solos it is crucial to be able to slow it down while maintaining pitch (unless you transpose your transcription). I used to use a Rube Goldberg lash-up using a dubbing tape recorder (2x speed) which enabled me to reduce the speed by exactly 50% (and down one octave). Programs like iRealB help immensely.

* I find that transcribing a solo helps me to "live inside" the soloist's head for a bit. I don't think there's any better way to be closer to a soloist that doesn't involve dinner and condoms.

* If you can transcribe it directly to your axe without writing it down, that's good too, but I think you lose a lot of the theory and understanding behind the solo and that will affect your ability to incorporate the solo into your own ideas.

 

And, as others have noted: play play play, and listen listen listen.