Ain't Nothin' but a Number

[SMcD]

Howdy friends,

I need some advice from my fellow ivory-tinklers.

 

After parting ways with our old singer, my rock band is auditioning new ones. The grand majority of the tryouts have been...underwhelming. However, we had a woman come in tonight that seems to have broken the trend of mediocrity. Killer voice, solid personality and attitude, tons of experience and what I'm expecting to be a solid sense of commitment - all-around good stuff.

 

There's just one small issue...she is double the age of everybody in the band (40 to our 20, if anybody is keeping score).

 

So now, the question my bandmates and I are struggling to answer is: should we care about her age?

 

The arguments on the no side are obvious: age and image are superficial, it's the sound that matters, etc.

 

However, there's some part of me (admittedly, a part of me that I'm guilty about having) that thinks the age gap will be a problem. Ideally, I'd like this band to go a bit beyond the usual bar gigs - put out an album, throw some shows at the nicer venues in town, maybe get a small amount of recognition in the local music scene (which may or may not just be 20-year-old idealism). Perhaps doing that would be easier with a band composed exclusively of young people, in terms of band member goals and audience perception of the band.

 

I'm feeling very conflicted about this whole thing, and I was wondering what the community perspective here might be.

 

Twenty-somethings who play with forty-somethings: how has the age distribution in your band affected your prospects and direction?

 

Forty-somethings surrounded by twenty-somethings: do you feel "at home" playing with younger people?

 

What do you guys think? I feel bad for being superficial, but a tiny part of me can't shake the "weirdness" of having such a huge age gulf with one person in the band.

[opdigits]

For the most part I've been in bands where the age range was similar with at most a ten year difference, but in a few bands we had widely varying age ranges (20's to 50's).

 

I suspect that the ultimate goal of the band will be the most important factor in your decision.

 

For us, the bands that had wide range of ages had no problems or issues as making great music was the top priority to all members, and in fact were some of the best fits because there was experience and seasoning combined with energy and trendiness, which made for a fresh sound that was rooted in sophisticated simplicity driven by pure groove.

 

In my days of youth I appreciated the experience the older cats taught me, and as a now older cat I appreciate the energy and freshness that younger musicians bring.

[Bobadohshe]

Depends on what style of music you play and how bad ass a chick she is. 40 isn't that old esp if she's hot. There's kind of sexual energy that arises when you have a cool older chick backed up by a bunch of younger studs and you can use that to your advantage in your show. Style wise it can work really well in blues bands or jazz groups where age isn't a factor.

 

It also depends on what kind of 20 year olds you guys are and how mature everyone is. If you are truly 20, then yeah, that might be weird if you guys want to talk about banging chicks and making dude jokes. I'm not saying you shouldn't do that (I was 20 once). I'm just saying that could get weird w/ a 40 year old around. But maybe not.

 

Your gut is giving you a red flag which is shouldn't be ignored. You should expound upon what you're feeling more in this thread. I'm interested to see what others have to say on the matter.

[hurricane hugo]

Just like a football team on draft day, take the best player on the board.

[yannis D]

Depends on what style of music you play and how bad ass a chick she is. 40 isn't that old esp if she's hot. There's kind of sexual energy that arises when you have a cool older chick backed up by a bunch of younger studs and you can use that to your advantage in your show. Style wise it can work really well in blues bands or jazz groups where age isn't a factor.

 

It also depends on what kind of 20 year olds you guys are and how mature everyone is. If you are truly 20, then yeah, that might be weird if you guys want to talk about banging chicks and making dude jokes. I'm not saying you shouldn't do that (I was 20 once). I'm just saying that could get weird w/ a 40 year old around. But maybe not.

 

Your gut is giving you a red flag which is shouldn't be ignored. You should expound upon what you're feeling more in this thread. I'm interested to see what others have to say on the matter.

 

+1

Your "i was 20 once" killed me...my thοughts exactly

[stoken6]

+1 to Bobby's advice. You might find the music side is great, but it's a bit weird hanging out backstage before a gig.

 

YMMV of course. In my band we have a 25+ year range (drummer was at school with the guitarist's daughter!), and we don't have a problem.

 

Well... we don't have *that* problem. Plenty of others :-)

 

Cheers, Mike

[Six-string-man]

Is she an "old looking" 40?

 

Lot's of women can take ten years off with make up and good dress sense. Over here (UK), a lot of our big cosmetic firms are set up in department stores. A friend of ours booked a (free) appointment for a makeover. Now, to my certain knowledge, she is 50+, but when we met her on a night out (in admittedly subdued lighting) she didn't look a day over 35.

 

Also, does your potential singer have a young outlook on life? Attitude can go a long way.

 

All the best in making your decision, I don't envy you.

 

SSM

[FedzKeyz]

It's more about whether you all want the same things out of the band.

A lot of people by the age of 40 have responsibilities (kids, jobs, pets, partners) that allow time for recreational music making, but might be awkward if the band takes off.

If you're hoping to take the band to the point where you're booking gigs out of the local area, or expecting to spend significant studio time making an album, then you need to check that she also is happy with that level of (potential) commitment.

[SpaceNorman]

You're going to play a few gigs with the woman - not marry her. If she's the best candidate you've found for the gig - I'd give her a chance. Back in my college band days - we had to replace our drummer. After auditioning several young guys - none of whom fit the bill - a guy who was twice our age approached us at a gig who asked to audition. Being in a bit of a bind (old drummer's last gig was coming up fast and we had to fill the spot) - we invited him out. He walked in with a gorgeous red and gold "cocktail" kit - was set up in no time flat. He says "lets run through the first set you played the day I came out to see you" - and then proceeded to play the shit out of it. We were "20ish" college kids - he was a 45 year old who needed a fresh start. We ended up working with him for nearly 3 years - in what I would consider to be a total WIN/WIN.

[Joe Muscara]

Age doesn't matter. Goals matter. Attitude matters. Personality matters.

 

Bobby's point about the red flag is a good one though. Seek out why you feel that way. Maybe there was something she did that made you uncomfortable, or maybe it's just unfamiliar territory for you. The latter is something you should be able to get over. The former, that depends.

 

Janiva Magness is probably 20-something years older than most of her band.

 

BTW, most of us on the KC are 20 or so years older than you. I'm sure we could have a good jam.

[JeffLearman]

We certainly didn't object when my soul band (ages 40-60) was joined by the bass player's daughter (age 18, hot). That lasted until the silly girl ran off to go to law school. Now where were her priorities!

[allan_evett]

Age doesn't matter. Goals matter. Attitude matters. Personality matters.

 

Bobby's point about the red flag is a good one though. Seek out why you feel that way. Maybe there was something she did that made you uncomfortable, or maybe it's just unfamiliar territory for you. The latter is something you should be able to get over. The former, that depends.

 

Janiva Magness is probably 20-something years older than most of her band.

 

BTW, most of us on the KC are 20 or so years older than you. I'm sure we could have a good jam.

 

Couldn't have said it better, between Joe and Bobby. Though in my case, that 'or so' after the '20' is getting larger. The other day I told a Boulder jam band to 'get off my lawn'..

[Stokely]

I'm mid-40s, and recently have been in bands with 20-somethings...in some cases yes there is a definite "cultural gap", especially as I have two young kids and most of those guys were unattached...but then again one bass player was 26 and super-easy to hang with. As mentioned it's a personality and "place in life" thing more than age.

 

I'd rather hang with "youngsters" than some of the crusty guys I've played with that can't learn a new thing and let you know about it (over and over again, they pull out the same rants every week at practice, and of course they couldn't have been the one to hit the wrong chord there, because "I've been playing this song since you were in diddies" and the like....)

[yorgatron]

[video:youtube]

 

 

[Bif_]

I suspect that she's at least somewhat attractive and certainly not ugly or overweight, otherwise there would be no consideration.

 

Hire her.

[SMcD]

Thanks for all of the input guys!

 

To answer some of the questions you've asked, and hopefully to advance the discussion a bit more:

 

I have the impression that she's very "young at heart" - certainly, the social dynamics at the audition were good. Of course, there will always be some inherent weirdness due to the age gap, but she seemed very easy-going, amicable, and hip - all of which go a long way.

 

I haven't really ascertained what her long-term goals would be if she was to come on board, but I'll definitely be asking her soon.

 

Regarding Bobby's question about our style: Clonk

 

As for my "red-flag" instinct, I'd initially held off on discussing that for fear of sounding shallow, and also because I didn't want to disrespect any of you older cats (all of whom I admire immensely). But maybe it's best if I just let it all out.

 

What I've noticed is that generally, when you see forty-somethings in a local rock band, it's usually a "bar band"-type situation - predominantly playing covers, perhaps with slightly older audiences, etc. Certainly, there's nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't say that it's where my passions lie.

I'm sensible enough to realize that we're going to have to do a lot of bar gigs to stay afloat, but what I'm really interested in is the more "creative" side of things - writing, recording, and playing at venues where the music is the focal point (instead of a tool with which to sell drinks).

So I'm afraid that having a forty-something in the band would push us farther away from that creative side and more towards the "corporate" side (for lack of a better term). Again, there's nothing wrong with that type of band, and I'm fine to play bar gigs - but I wouldn't want to be relegated to nothing but that.

 

The other part of it concerns audiences. I'd like to think that it's normal to want recognition from your peers - in my case, young folks in post-secondary. Would having somebody who's double our age at the front of the band alienate that demographic?

 

 

[SMcD]

I suspect that she's at least somewhat attractive and certainly not ugly or overweight, otherwise there would be no consideration.

 

Now that's shallow.

[Bif_]

I suspect that she's at least somewhat attractive and certainly not ugly or overweight, otherwise there would be no consideration.

 

Now that's shallow.

Guilty as charged.

 

I'm the proud father of two beautiful daughters (fortunately outside as well as inner beauty). Like I've told them many times, no matter what you do in life, it doesn't hurt to be pretty!

[opdigits]

Would having somebody who's double our age at the front of the band alienate that demographic?

This would be the one thing I would fear (I'm one of the old guys, but can still see things through young eyes). As I opined in my original response, the goals of the band will most likely be your deciding factor, and demographics may well play an important role in that regard, especially as she would be in the singular most focused upon role within the band. Tough decision.

 

As to the creative thing, that, IMO, isn't dependent as much on age, with the possible exception of creative differences manifesting themselves through generational perceptions or sympathies, as opposed to creative ability.

[SMcD]

Good points, opdigits.

 

Those of you who are in bands with wide age distributions: how has it affected your "brand", as well as the demographics in your audience?

[Fusker]

Well, I'll go ahead and say since the core of your band is 20 year-olds, and you sound aspirational, I would hold out for a singer that you have no reservations about.

 

I do now, have plenty of experience with a wide range of ages. My current line-up ranges from 18 to early 60's. This isn't my day job, and I have a limited pool of musicians due to my location, so I do what I have to do. As the leader of the band, and being 43, it all mostly balances out. But I can also tell you, our current female singer is 18...she's very bright, good voice, nice kid etc....but there is no way in HELL, I would be in a group where everyone aside from me, was her age. So personally, I would call into question a 40 year old woman wanting to do the same thing, she may have a high probability of being a bit nuts.

 

The other end of the spectrum, after having a couple of different 60+ types, they offer up their own brand of pain in the butt as well. "Anything written after the 70's is crap" was an actual quote from my current drummer.

 

Now of course, your mileage may vary...

[ProfD]

SMcD, in order for the band to gain a following, sell records and pack venues, it has to to appeal to its peers.

 

There is a reason that you don't see 40-something year old singers on most of the singing contest reality TV shows.

 

Young folks consume music to that extent. IMO, the singer should be in her late teens/early 20s too.

[Moonglow]

SMcD, in order for the band to gain a following, sell records and pack venues, it has to to appeal to its peers.

+1, especially the "sell records" thing.

 

[opdigits]

There is a reason that you don't see 40-something year old singers on most of the singing contest reality TV shows.

[Tonysounds]

Of course, this assumes that everyone in the band is on the same page with SMcD. And this would be an important conversation to have. You cant really hold the 40yr old woman to a different standard than your 20yr old band mates. So, if theyre on the same page as you (if I have this right, you want to play, would like to make money, sell some merch, build a local following, maybe even more), now its a question of how simpatico are all of you? Keep in mind that at your age, as guys start going to/finishing college, all those aspirations tend to evaporate as student loan payments, car notes, careers, pregnancies and weddings make their appearances. Dont assume that everyone in your band truly shares your agenda.

 

But assuming you all DO share the same agenda, I would reiterate the shallow (but realistic) thinking of some folks here: is she attractive? More importantly, is there a connection between the stage and the audience when shes on it? Do you guys like each other?

 

Building a real band takes some time and effort. And one persons agenda on 11/22/13 may bear little resemblance to that same agenda on 5/22/14. So keep that in mind. All of this of course assumes musical compatibility.

 

[wmp]

There is a reason that you don't see 40-something year old singers on most of the singing contest reality TV shows.

Susan Boyle?

[richforman]

Yes it's not so much age specifically but, in many cases, looks/appearance is a factor that rightfully gets taken into account when hiring band members, depending on the kind of image and attitude you want to project as a band. For the rhythm section it doesn't matter quite as much but for the front-person/lead-vocalist, it is (sometimes) an absolutely legit factor to consider when hiring someone. Depending on the kind of audience you hope to attract and where you'll be performing, sometimes it is important to have an overall youthful, attractive young-looking visual vibe to the band (even though in many cases the people - like me! - are a bit older but are just able to maintain a younger look). I guess don't let "guilty" feelings let you neglect this issue or consider whether or not it is important in your band's case.

[ProfD]

There is a reason that you don't see 40-something year old singers on most of the singing contest reality TV shows.

Susan Boyle?

I just knew a wiseguy from Baaston would come up with her name as the exception.

 

So, I highlighted the key word in the quote above for brotha wmp.

[wmp]

I was actually asking if she was the reason.

 

[SMcD]

There is a reason that you don't see 40-something year old singers on most of the singing contest reality TV shows.

 

I wouldn't say that's the exact crowd I'm going for.

 

I mean, I'd like peer recognition to some extent - but I wouldn't bend over backwards trying to "appeal to the masses".

 

...Good God, one minute I sound like an insecure wannabe; the next I sound like an insufferable hipster. Why is this online communication thing so damn hard?!

 

Keep in mind that at your age, as guys start going to/finishing college, all those aspirations tend to evaporate as student loan payments, car notes, careers, pregnancies and weddings make their appearances. Dont assume that everyone in your band truly shares your agenda.

 

Building a real band takes some time and effort. And one persons agenda on 11/22/13 may bear little resemblance to that same agenda on 5/22/14. So keep that in mind. All of this of course assumes musical compatibility.

 

I hear that - and in fact I'm in Uni right now for something completely unrelated to music. I don't have any "rock star" aspirations - all I would hope for is a tiny bit of local recognition, and I realize that we may never even get that.

 

Part of what makes this so frustrating is that we'd already been doing this for over five years (with another singer - but the reason for her departure is another story). There was a period around 2010-2011 where we had a ton of stuff going on - and it kills me that we've only slowed down since then. I love this band, and I'd hate to have "peaked" already.

 

And for those of you who are wondering - she's fairly attractive and looks a bit younger than she is (and certainly gives off a "youthful vibe"). I'm not sure how she might "click" with the audience - but I suspect that the only way to find out is to actually hire her.