New Worship main keyboard

[aellison62]

Alright forum, it looks like my church's Roland RD-700sx is gasping it's last breaths and needs to be replaced with a BRAND NEW shiny equally capable keyboard.

 

Must be weighted action.

 

This keyboard is used mainly for piano, pads, strings, as you would expect from a Worship keyboard. I have the PC361 for organ so don 't need organ on this new one necessarily.

 

 

My question is:

 

Other than Roland RD-700nx and the Yamaha CP- 4. Or CP- 5 ?? ( what is the major difference between the CP4 and CP5 .) What other choices do I have? Is the Kurzweil Artis shipping? What is MAP?

 

I've got to advise my Pastor this week so any advice is much appreciated!

 

[allan_evett]

Have no experience with the CP4, yet. Have played a CP5, but that was a couple of years back. Also owned a CP50, briefly. You should be able to find specs online for the CP5, then compare them to those of the CP4 - as listed on Yamaha's site. Or someone who has A/B'd both keyboards can chime in here (there are a few players on the forum who have played both). From playing the CP5, and reviewing the CP4's info, I'd guess that you'd find the CP4 a solid fit for your situation. The CP4 is much more like the CP5 - a stellar instrument - than the CP50 (which was still quite good).

 

Heard that the Artis was shipping; IIRC, that was in September. Haven't confirmed that lately though. Should be a great sounding instrument, though the 88-key action will be a little lighter than that of the RD-700SX, or NX.

 

As you're used to the RD-700SX's action, layout, and sound, you might really like the RD-700NX. That's one on which I have about a year's worth of experience. It's an excellent hybrid instrument that's weighted toward digital piano, but has an above average compliment of additional sounds. I sold it to pick up a Kronos 88 - as I discovered that having a heavier, multi-purpose synth engine in my studio '88' was important. The Kronos 88 could work well for you, but it's likely more instrument that you need.

[churchkeybob]

For piano, pads and strings I would go with the Kurz. However except for the new german piano the rest of the sounds are covered by your PC361. although you then could start a thread "first impressions of the Artis". If it's a keyboard that gets moved for weddings and other events a light weight like the new Casio might be a thought. Good luck. ~BOB

[timwat]

I have a PC361 (as well as other Kurzs), as well as a Casio PX3. Have demo'd the CP5 and CP50, the PX5s, but have not seen or touched an Artis. I just received my CP4 and have been gigging it.

 

Short answer is I would wholeheartedly recommend the CP4 for pianos in a worship setting. At the very least you need to demo one prior to making your recommendation to your pastor. Especially for piano sound and feel, I feel that strongly about it.

 

There are differences between CP4 and CP5 that may not make a difference to you (weight and schlep factor), but for me the biggest difference is the CP4 has a very intuitive UI whereas the CP5 does not. In a worship setting where you may have occasional pianists with little technical experience, this can be a deal breaker.

 

Longer answer - I find it difficult for anything to really trump the strings and orchestral in my PC361 or K2600. With some tweaking, my Kronos has some options I can use on a gig, which just present more 'forward' than the Kurzs, but the producers I send string/orchestral tracks to just love the Kurz sounds. So when you say 'strings', I'm thinking you're MIDI'ing and volume pedaling the PC361 as the best solution.

 

For a good variety of pads (well...I'm presuming a laptop running Omnisphere isn't in the equation...), I very much like the Kronos, especially the ease of creating a combi with tons of different elements to cross-fade between. Creating similar combos on the PC361 will give you a deeper palette than any stage piano will provide. While I like the pad flavors the CP4 gives me to stick under its piano sounds, it cannot complete with the complexity or depth that a workstation or Omnisphere can build.

 

Hope that helps some.

 

[Delaware Dave]

I'm quite certain that the triple strike piano of the PC361 is more than adequate for a worship band. So you might just want to consider a weighted controller and use your PC361 as the piano source through a MIDI connection. My two cents for the collection basket.

[aellison62]

I'm not going to use the Kurz PC361 for the main piano, so that's out of the equation.

 

That keyboard carries my organ and orchestral sounds very well.

 

I need a user friendly stage piano with the ability to layer up to 4 layers.

[Brettymike]

You calling Santa Kurz's piano "Unfriendly" ? .

 

Brett

[CEB]

Do you need to move it or will it stay setup at the church? For that gig my favorite bottom board would weigh 75+ pounds. I don't have one but I play it's predecessor the MP-8II. I like the action. If you need to mover every week I would get something different and I don't shy away from heavy gear.

 

[video:youtube]

[churchkeybob]

Is there a budget for this keyboard? A Kurzweil SP4-8 works very well at my church. If the budget would allow I would still try for the Artis because of the sliders and the new piano. ~BOB

PS. both of these boards have 4 zones and can load pc3 files.

[aellison62]

Budget is $ 2500.00.

 

Weight is no issue. It's staying at church.

 

I would really like to try the Artis. SP4 is an option I didn't think of.....but with the Artis, I probably wouldn't go with anything less than the latest technology given my budget.

 

Unlike the Balto-Wash area, where I grew up, I don't have the mega music stores where I could try ( for instance ) Yamaha CP 4, Roland RD-700NX, Artis. all at the same time.

 

Wow, would that be nice? ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bobadohshe]

We got a CP50 at my church gig earlier this year to replace the aging PC88. I love it and use it mainly for the purposes you have described. My main patch on it is piano layered with a low pad. I am constantly adjusting the level of pad and piano so that sometimes it's 80% pad 20% piano and vice verse. Very handy depending on which tune we're doing.

[stoken6]

Must be weighted action.

 

This keyboard is used mainly for piano, pads, strings

 

(Budget $2500)

 

Question to the OP: is weight/schlep important?

 

You mentioned several DPs in your list - they'll all have strong pianos (obviously tastes vary), but other sounds may not be as strong. You may need to look at something with a slightly wider focus.

- Casio PX5: way under your budget, but very light (24lbs). Good-to-great action imho, but probably not as good as CP4, and fair-to-good AP voice (definitely not as good as CP4)

- Yamaha MOXF8: Again under your budget, but light (32lbs). Good piano imho, fairly light (although heavier than Casio). Also consider Korg Krome/Kross 88?

- Kurzweil Artis: Has they synth/rompler pedigree of the PC3 plus a decent AP voice (from demos). So should be perfect for pad/strings. Action is the Fatar TP/100, which you may dislike. Medium weight 38lbs iirc

- Yamaha CP4: Superb AP voice and action according to reliable reports on this forum. Medium weight 38lbs. Does not have the full Motif range of extra sounds, so would need to check if "your" requirements for pad/strings are included.

 

If you're willing to go 40lbs+ other options become available.

 

I hope that helps, although I fear I may simply have muddied the water!

 

Cheers, Mike.

[aellison62]

Weight/schlep factor is not important since this keyboard will live at church.

 

I think I'll have to test a CP4 soon. That seems to be a good option.

[CEB]

No brainer at that price. CP1 and Roland virtual piano is over budget.

 

The CP300 is older technology but for this I would probably prefer over a CP4. That flat top is great.

 

All that is left at $2500 is the Kawai MP-10 which smokes all that cheap plastic action stuff. Take advantage of the fact it is a permanent install.

[J Graul]

I was debating between the CP4 and the Artis. Went to the local GC a couple times as well as the local Kurz dealer to try and play on both but GC sucks and the local Kurz dealer is no longer a Kurz dealer. I talked to one of the guys at Sweetwater and he said both keyboards felt great. He said that he was normally a Kurz player and preferred the Kurz sound over the Yamahas. I went with the CP4 based on many reviews on this forum and I'm extremely pleased. I love the action on it. Still wish I could have tried the Artis though.

[Bill H.]

what is the major difference between the CP4 and CP5

CP4 is way more mono friendly. CP5 is notoriously horrible summing to mono. Practically all churches I've been involved in run stereo through theater/auditorium sound systems, so that may not be an issue for you. But it's worth mentioning.

 

This keyboard is used mainly for piano, pads, strings, as you would expect from a Worship keyboard.

If all you are doing is layering a string or pad in and out over a piano, I think a CP4 can do this smoothly (check with owners though to make sure). But if you are like me and have more complicated needs, Yamahas really aren't all that good for praise music because you can't transition seamlessly between acoustic pianos, EPs, muted strings, choirs... things like that. I don't know if you are like me, but I'm doing this all the time. It's often when there's no one else playing too, so it's got to be seamless.

 

My current solution of a PX-5s is working out pretty good. But it's taken a lot of time to custom program it to my liking, and you have a budget for something probably better.