"Big 3" frustratingly behind 2013 technology

[ProfD]

IMO, the big 3 aren't behind the technology. They are providing a box of sounds and features that enable us to play and compose music.

 

Like my buddy MikeT, I still use a Motif ES8. It's 10+ year old technology but still works for me. I wouldn't replace or trade it for a newer workstation.

[CEB]

I want a Yamaha SK50D.

[Leh173]

In my experience the difference between the big 3 boards and software is they work right out the box, have no latency and have an OS geared to music, some good, some bad and these days sound very good. Harder to realise in software than some may think. By the time you get a software based rig up to hardware speed if you can at all, you would have spent a fair bit of money. You'll have a much more powerful open ended system with more authentic sounds in some cases, but a lot less convenience, or at least that was what I discovered, so yes hardware is a bit behind the times, but has advantages elsewhere. A combination of both, in my case a Fantom G6 and Mainstage works wonders!

[orangefunk]

IMO, the big 3 aren't behind the technology. They are providing a box of sounds and features that enable us to play and compose music.

 

Like my buddy MikeT, I still use a Motif ES8. It's 10+ year old technology but still works for me. I wouldn't replace or trade it for a newer workstation.

 

I think that's because there still isn't really an obvious advantage with the newer boards. Kronos has more sounds, engines, streaming etc... but I think the ES still holds its own on many fronts...

[IndySteve]

I think OP raises a valid point. The reason the Korg M1 is the highest selling synth of all time is that to a certain extent, a rompler is a rompler. A lot of the find points between them get lost in the real world, especially in a live performance situation and even more so with bad acoustics and sound reinforcement. In my area it seems like a lot of musicians used Alesis QS series keyboards until they turned to dust. I can imagine the Casio PX-5S and its descendants being the QS's for the next decade or more. The PX-5S has a very good piano sound, a very good keyboard, and the other sounds are plenty good enough for most real world situations. Plus, the price is low enough to eventually pay off with a part time job or lower level gigs.

 

[Theo Verelst]

Maybe driving with a stick isn't better than paddles, but a lot of functionality in complex synthesizers/workstations wouldn't fit on a user interface the size and attractiveness of an ipad or a fancy "keyboard" with colors, etc. I think I couldn't fit all the controls i'd want on less than 4 HD+ screens, and then still maybe the access to the sliders and meters wouldn't be optimal.

 

On the other hand, as long as the synthesizer machine has great sound potential, it may be enough to switch small monochrome screens and have some dedicated knobs and simple navigation, as long as the response it ok and it is laid out logical.

 

Maybe it should be tried to take a USB-3 stick with a small dedicated Linux for a decent fast notebook, and let that act as sound/parameter navigation tool.

 

[I-missRichardTee]

In my experience the difference between the big 3 boards and software is they work right out the box, have no latency and have an OS geared to music, some good, some bad and these days sound very good. Harder to realise in software than some may think. By the time you get a software based rig up to hardware speed if you can at all, you would have spent a fair bit of money. You'll have a much more powerful open ended system with more authentic sounds in some cases, but a lot less convenience, or at least that was what I discovered, so yes hardware is a bit behind the times, but has advantages elsewhere. A combination of both, in my case a Fantom G6 and Mainstage works wonders!

 

Slightly OT I am old school, not much into computers.. but a growing number of people talk about Mainstage, so, though discussed before:

Do you use it live? aka reliable? What computer/ RAM/ settings, with negligible latency, hiccups, setup do you use?

How much of a load ( how many VST's ) on it do you feel is well within "safe" limits for Live?

My G6 can simultaneously run 7 or 8 different sounds - I would want same ability or close to it in Mainstage; but maybe not needed?

If I used G6 with Mainstage.. would the fact I have G6 on stage, make the computer load of 7 or 8 VST's unnecessary?

I would want Trillian ( I keep finding excuses to not go this route laptop route ) Ivory, strings, rhodes, organ, and one more VST to cover pads, brass, synth.

Thanks

[Joe Muscara]

Slightly OT I am old school, not much into computers.. but a growing number of people talk about Mainstage, so, though discussed before:

Do you use it live? aka reliable? What computer/ RAM/ settings, with negligible latency, hiccups, setup do you use?

How much of a load ( how many VST's ) on it do you feel is well within "safe" limits for Live?

My G6 can simultaneously run 7 or 8 different sounds - I would want same ability or close to it in Mainstage; but maybe not needed?

If I used G6 with Mainstage.. would the fact I have G6 on stage, make the computer load of 7 or 8 VST's unnecessary?

I would want Trillian ( I keep finding excuses to not go this route laptop route ) Ivory, strings, rhodes, organ, and one more VST to cover pads, brass, synth.

Thanks

Friendly advice: Do a search here on this topic. There have been *many* threads about using MainStage live, and I'm sure at least some of your questions have been answered.

 

Here's a link to do the search for you. http://bit.ly/1hCGfKh

[I-missRichardTee]

Joe.. friendly advice back at ya... your avatar frightens me, imagine small children's reaction?

[Joe Muscara]

Joe.. friendly advice back at ya... your avatar frightens me, imagine small children's reaction?

You mean like the one in your avatar?

 

[Theo Verelst]

I think Joe's avatar is cool.

[Joe Muscara]

I think Joe's avatar is cool.

Thanks, Theo. Your avatars always keep me on my toes ("who is that and what is is from?").

[stillplaying]

kitchen sink keyboards

 

*enters very appropriate catchphrase into vocabulary*

 

You'll be wanted the kitchen taps in the Krome finish.

 

Ventilator for extraction of unwanted odours.

 

Something eyecatching as a feature and focal point - a Maschine? No sir, no idea what it does. Looks good though.

[Leh173]

In my experience the difference between the big 3 boards and software is they work right out the box, have no latency and have an OS geared to music, some good, some bad and these days sound very good. Harder to realise in software than some may think. By the time you get a software based rig up to hardware speed if you can at all, you would have spent a fair bit of money. You'll have a much more powerful open ended system with more authentic sounds in some cases, but a lot less convenience, or at least that was what I discovered, so yes hardware is a bit behind the times, but has advantages elsewhere. A combination of both, in my case a Fantom G6 and Mainstage works wonders!

 

Slightly OT I am old school, not much into computers.. but a growing number of people talk about Mainstage, so, though discussed before:

Do you use it live? aka reliable? What computer/ RAM/ settings, with negligible latency, hiccups, setup do you use?

How much of a load ( how many VST's ) on it do you feel is well within "safe" limits for Live?

My G6 can simultaneously run 7 or 8 different sounds - I would want same ability or close to it in Mainstage; but maybe not needed?

If I used G6 with Mainstage.. would the fact I have G6 on stage, make the computer load of 7 or 8 VST's unnecessary?

I would want Trillian ( I keep finding excuses to not go this route laptop route ) Ivory, strings, rhodes, organ, and one more VST to cover pads, brass, synth.

Thanks

 

Well my Mainstage setup was on a MacBook Pro 3,1 (2007 model) and I could run safely at 128 buffer running NI New York Piano, the B3, EP and synths from Logic plus Arturia JP8v (which was a processor hog). A more modern mac should give better performance. You can run audio into the Fantom via USB so you can add a laptop that way. The lowest latency the Roland driver seems to give is 128. I'd suggest using mainstage to cover things you feel the Fantom average with, such as Organs, maybe EP and piano, or the odd VA synth. The rest the Fantoms sounds are good enough. If you need good EPs you could pick up ARX 02 for the Fantom and ARX 03 (if you can even find it now) absolutley ROCKS for horns. I'm not kidding. It's excellent. Hope this helps.

[Jazzmammal]

Tee, the thing with using computers on stage is you have to be a total computer nerd AND a total midi nerd. Not just kinda sorta familiar with that stuff, no a complete pro as in all your non musician friends come to you to fix their laptop issues like why won't IE work anymore or it boots for 20 seconds then shuts off because they have no clue and all your musician friends come to you to fix all their laptop/synth/controller midi glitches because they have no clue either. Like I hit the patch change button to use a string sound but I'm hearing a kazoo or I turn the controller 13 knob and nothing happens. If you're not that guy or have no interest in becoming that guy then fuggetaboutit.

 

But, there are a few people here who are that guy and it all works fine for them so the question for you is how far to you want to go with these things because it's not easy. Go ahead, ask me how I know this. I gave it a good shot a few years ago and decided F this, I'll simply push some buttons on my Kurzweil. Not to mention all the talk in many threads here about the lack of good pro feeling keyboard controllers and how cheap and squeaky they all feel. I don't know about you but I'm not spending $6,7, 800 bucks for a good controller when C'list is full of clean used (pick a name) synths for that money and they all have a much better keyboard feel than these elcheapo controllers.

 

My PC3 sounds great. Does it absolutely sound as good as some top shelf VST's? Who knows, it's a matter of opinion but it's plenty good enough for me with none of these potential computer/midi/controller issues I'm talking about.

 

Bob

[MikeT156]

Some good points Jazzmammal:

 

Yeah software for music, no thanks. One of the issues I have with developing a good sounding rig is that what sounds best doesn't always transport well or does not set up quick enough to do a gig. Hardware workstations and synths can sound very good and all you do (in most cases) is push a button and PLAY. There is a limit to the amount of time I would dedicate to development and set up of a system for a KY rig for gigs. I usually had to have a regular job to pay the bills and playing music was a sideline. What free time I've had I need to PRACTICE, create and edit Sequences of songs, so I could do gigs. No time to screw around with programming, computer debugging, reloading, and upgrading. Not to mention the $$$ it costs to buy it and then up grade it. Microsoft made sure software was never finished. Apple made sure their system that users couldn't tweak like Windows, cost even more than Windows boxes.

 

Hardware KB instruments are not only less headaches than software based systems, cost of ownership is less expensive in the long run.

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

Mike T.

[Synthoid]

One of the issues I have with developing a good sounding rig is that what sounds best doesn't always transport well or does not set up quick enough to do a gig. Hardware workstations and synths can sound very good and all you do (in most cases) is push a button and PLAY. There is a limit to the amount of time I would dedicate to development and set up of a system for a KY rig for gigs.

 

Hardware KB instruments are not only less headaches than software based systems, cost of ownership is less expensive in the long run.

 

I'm still using my Korg Triton with our worship band and it's over 12 years old now. I tried the live softsynth route a couple times but it just wasn't working for me. I like the fact that I can plug in the Triton, turn it on and start playing. No boot up times, program loading, or extra cables to trip over.

 

[Theo Verelst]

I think Yamaha is certainly a bit of an exception, and I am aware of some very interesting machinery from any selection of "the big 3", but maybe it is time the world of technology and computers is getting seriously questioned concerning the leadership of the last decade(s), because a lot (meanign a big part) of the well known technology is ill-managed at large, I think.

 

T