Simplifying the rig; a lesson from a touring player

[Leh173]

I just gig a single Fantom G6 these days, three pedals and an amp... I need quick setup times and the small footprint is great in a 6 piece band. Been quite satisfied with it. If I ever need to expand it's sound palette I'll chuck on a Mac running Mainstage into the setup, which is what I was using before. Been interested to read in KB mag that some well known players (David Sancious, Tom Coster) are just gigging one Kronos now. I guess it depends on the gig.

[cleomenesII]

You probably wouldn't be able to show that first Spyro Gyra clip in the UK, since the Top Of The Pops DJ at the start, Jimmy Saville (with the blonde hair) has been revealed after his death to have been a serial paedophile and child molester for most of his career, terribly exploiting his position as a 'volunteer' in children's homes and hospitals. Seriously out of favour now (sadly, it was only discovered when it was too late to prosecute him).

[wheresgrant]

A timely topic as I'm in the middle of scaling back my live rig. For years I used a 61 key Triton Extreme and a Fantom S along with a racked line mixer and V-Synth XT. However as we've added a 2nd keys player and two singers up front I'm finding space even more limited now for even a 61 key footprint. The Other keyboardist is playing mostly organ and piano and I'm handling alot of one hand synth lines, horn stabs,pads, sfx. Plus I film our shows and manage another $3K in video equipment. So I've been using two Korg Micro X and an AX Synth wireless midi'd to a racked Roland XV5080. It's as wide as I am. LOL I don't play on every song as the other keys player does so I felt comfortable sacrificing some real estate. I have a 2-space roller rack with a Furman unit, and all my wall wart/AC adapters pre-plugged. I have an 8 Space rack which I stack behind me on a stand with the V-synth XT, XV5080 and a Rolls 8 channel line mixer with a 2nd Furman. I have a 3 channel snake I run to my stand for sound input and midi the XT (I use it for a vocoder). Still a complicated set up but I'm usually the last to set up as I try to fit wherever it makes sense on stage. The Micro X has the Triton soundset and is fine for strings, brass and especially synth. However I'm interested in getting rid of a few pieces in place of a MacBook Pro and Mainstage.

[cphollis]

Less is more, unless you're in a situation where more is more.

 

My minimal rig right now is a Nord Stage 2 HA 76 with a single QSC K10. With a bit or programming (and paying attention to where the splits are!) it's serviceable for wedding gigs, etc.

 

Love rolling in with a single board, a small PA speaker, a stand, throne, pedal and a few cables. One trip, maybe two -- and that's it.

 

Although it's still fun to have gigs where I bring all the toys out.

[Bossbandbob]

Same boat, dropped the expensive, heavy 88 keys and large amps for a tiny Juno-Di and Behringer B205D on a mic stand, occasionally with a microKorg if the need arises. Had a gig at a hotel 20 minutes from my flat - I WALKED there with my full rig. The unbearable 10 minute trips up my two flights of stairs after getting home is now a 20 second single trip as soon as I'm in the door.

Questions on this and the Mackie SM150.you use no other amplification? These work out OK going from their XLR out to FOH in a loud Rock band context? What kind of line inputs are those on the Behringer B205D? They require a special cable from the keyboards?

[Losendoskeys]

I'm as simplified as you can be for a Genesis tribute band.

The only way it could get simpler would be to use a Hammond L122 with Leslie, Mellotron, ARP Prosoloist and RMI piano - that would mean buying a van and straining muscles! No thanks!

 

So Roland XP30 with Verghese Prosoloist Rack+, SK2 + Vent + MXRPhase100, Korg Kronos + Roland Fantom XR Rack, SM Pro Mixer DI in a rack with UPS.Seven pedals. Oh and a loom to wire it all together!

Three keyboards is as small as it can get.......

[Bossbandbob]

Same boat, dropped the expensive, heavy 88 keys and large amps for a tiny Juno-Di and Behringer B205D on a mic stand, occasionally with a microKorg if the need arises. Had a gig at a hotel 20 minutes from my flat - I WALKED there with my full rig. The unbearable 10 minute trips up my two flights of stairs after getting home is now a 20 second single trip as soon as I'm in the door.

Questions on this and the Mackie SM150.you use no other amplification? These work out OK going from their XLR out to FOH in a loud Rock band context? What kind of line inputs are those on the Behringer B205D? They require a special cable from the keyboards?

Guy at Sweetwater said those jacks take either 1/4" or XLR inputs..cool. A review I read on the Behringer B205D said it delivers a really good signal to the FOH. Has anyone had negative experiences with these "mini" speakers used as monitors in a live Rock band context?

[nadroj]

Same boat, dropped the expensive, heavy 88 keys and large amps for a tiny Juno-Di and Behringer B205D on a mic stand, occasionally with a microKorg if the need arises. Had a gig at a hotel 20 minutes from my flat - I WALKED there with my full rig. The unbearable 10 minute trips up my two flights of stairs after getting home is now a 20 second single trip as soon as I'm in the door.

Questions on this and the Mackie SM150.you use no other amplification? These work out OK going from their XLR out to FOH in a loud Rock band context? What kind of line inputs are those on the Behringer B205D? They require a special cable from the keyboards?

Guy at Sweetwater said those jacks take either 1/4" or XLR inputs..cool. A review I read on the Behringer B205D said it delivers a really good signal to the FOH. Has anyone had negative experiences with these "mini" speakers used as monitors in a live Rock band context?

 

Sorry, didn't see your reply. I use no other amplification. It has two input channels (plus one stereo channel for iPod, etc...) on the front, plus a trhu and main out channel on the back, so I run my vocals and the mono out from my Di into it, then run a single XLR out the back straight into the desk, so I use one channel on the desk shared between vocals and my single board. While most guys reading this would probably freak at the thought, we like it because it's simple and effective - I usually have to have both the keyboard and the main input gain at 50% because anything higher overpowers everything else in the FOH mix.

 

I use the Berhinger as my only monitor in a rock setting, and honestly, it works fine. I could not believe the power I got from it when I first plugged it in. Hell, we played at a venue last Wednesday where they had a fantastic in house system and a dedicated sound tech. I couldn't get enough keyboard in my wedge mix, so I suggested to the sound guy that I plug my Berhinger in and run everything from that. He was skeptical at first, but it has phantom power, and when he saw how simple it made his job, as well as how much stronger my monitor mix became, he was over the moon. So no, I've no negative experiences so far!

I know a lot of guys in our agency who use them - guitarists and vocalists who always have everything far too loud. Those guys have blown out a few of theirs, but that's because to them any level lower than 11 is unthinkable. Most of our songs may be rocky, but both our vocalists are trained and are very picky about how they treat their voices, so we keep our levels even. We've used the same 3 monitors for almost 2 years now and haven't had any problems.

 

They're pretty cheap, so if you're thinking of buying one I'd recommend you do so and see how you like it.

[stillplaying]

Less is more, unless you're in a situation where more is more.

 

Hahahahaha. Love it!

[Rustar]

I am using the setup exactly as you described it, and it works beautifully. Thanks for a tip that really makes a difference.

[richforman]

Like Joe P back up on p. 1, I long ago decided to go as simple as possible for gigs and that meant working in mono and no MIDI (hmm, will be breaking that long-standing rule now with my new Vortex keytar!), although it wasn't always that way, but for many years now it's just been two keyboards and some kind of monitor amp that also serves as a mixer. Basically (as others have been talking about), it is a compromise because while I'd love to have specialized instruments that are the very BEST or close to it in every sound category from piano to B3 to analog synth to orchestral samples and dedicated effects units to beef them up.....in the real world, it's much more practical to just have one or two workstation-type keyboards that do "pretty good" in all those categories and are quick and easy to load and set up, and reliable. Audience members and bandmates don't care too much about the finer nuances of recreating all those sounds with unassailable accuracy, but appreciate expedience, simplicity and reliability in showing up and being ready for the downbeat without too much fuss. And happily it's been decades since I've had to endure the embarrassment of a MIDI "stuck note" requiring me to reboot my whole rack-based rig mid-song!

[Bossbandbob]

What ARE the reasons you would get a stuck note on midi anyway? In my limited midi experience I have had two reasons, so far.

A loose cable is certainly one. Hitting an unhappy button on some keyboards is another.

[David Loving]

Age and hip surgery got me thinking downsizing, and I have 2 ways to go. With my two gigging bands I do not need an amp. I still run everything through our main PA amp. My favorite lately is NI Kontakt with an 88 key or 61 key controller. The other, XW-P1 and ventilator. I have a benefit jam at a place out of town Saturday, so I'll have to take my amp and a speaker or two - haven't decided. If I want more signal control I run everything through a Speakeasy 122AMA.

[steve campito]

I use a Jupiter 50 with a Voce V5+. Voce goes into a Strymon Lex or Boss RT 20. Both boards go directly into a Berhinger mixer and into a QSC K12 Works great

[Rustar]

As many of you know, I got to hang out with Journey's former lead singer, Steve Augeri, a week or so ago. I also acted as their "keyboard tech" for their show here.

Their keys player, Craig is a super cool dude. He gave me a "tour" of his rig and we exchange thoughts on various things in the keyboard world.

 

He gave me a bunch of tips and tricks from the standpoint of a touring pro who doesn't have major tour roadies

 

His big tip: simplify.

 

So, on my last gig, I did just that. Wow... what a difference.

Taking a clue right from Craig, I used my PX350 and Korg M50-61. Left the MOX8 at home.

I also left at home my heavy rack with power, in ear wireless transmitter, guitar wireless, etc..

 

So my setup consisted of my two boards (lightweight), a Rolls MX122 mixer, my old Radial Dual DI, and my in ear ear phones.

 

What a joy. Easy setup, no heavy lifting, ready to go in minutes.

 

Wiring was thus:

 

1 line from each board to DI box in.

1 line from DI box "thru" to Rolls mixer.

DI outs to FOH

FOH feed for in ears to Rolls mixer

Plugged earphone line into phones jack on Rolls mixer.

 

Done. Simple. I controlled the levels of my keys and monitor mix from my Rolls mixer. The Rolls is small and sits on top left of my PX350.

 

Sounded great, and I was not tired before the show or after load out.

 

For my current gig, I don't need more than that for the sounds I need. The M50 gets me the non-piano sounds I need. Plus, it's much earlier to setup as a slave board than the MOX

 

Sometimes less is more!

 

This is a great tip. My question is:how do you get a FOH feed into the Rolls? What send from the mixer is used? Thanks

[Daniel Heslop]

So for my third post in this thread...allow me to completely contradict my previous posts!

 

I am now gigging fairly often, and I find I am doing it entirely with my Korg Kross 61, and getting compliments on how good it sounds from other musicians.

 

This came about for a multi-band showcase gig where we were not the final act and I needed to strike my gear fairly quickly. I was having some odd midi interactions between the Kross and my sp250 DP anyway, so I decided to really look at the songs I had to play, and see if I could set up combi's that would let me cover it all on the Kross. Needless to say I found I could do that, and while I was at it I created some combi's for general playing situations as well, and I've never looked back.

 

So I walk into a gig with the Kross in it's soft bag back pack style, and carrying my apex stand in one hand. I'm not bringing my own amp right now and it is working ok, so I doubt I'll change that.

 

Now it is well known the Kross action is not very good, and I am sure that if a very piano oriented situation came along I would still take my DP as well, but so far I am traveling lighter than I ever have in my life!

[roygBiv]

I'm resonating with this thread!

 

Recently bought a used Roland RD-64 piano because it sits perfectly underneath my Roland VR09.

 

In fact, I literally set the VR09 on top of the RD64, using an older Apex Ultimate support stand. Instead of using the second tier arms, I have the front end of VR09 setting on top of the RD64, and the back of the VR09 setting on the "nodule" thingy in the Apex into which you put the arms.

 

very compact, and easy to play. With my iPad velcro'd to the Apex post facing me (with Forscore for teh music, and a ton of synth sample apps), and those two key's going through a SS3, I now have a very small, versatile rig that is easy to set up/tear down. And, looks very unpretentious. And sounds killer!

 

Just tried it today at practice, it was pretty fun, the band even loved it (as a bunch of old school reggae aficionados, they sometimes look at my tech stuff as the spawn of Babylon).

 

Best thing about the RD64 is limited options - only 12 sounds, and a couple of pre-set effects. At first it is annoying, then you go back to playing it like an instrument, i.e., seeing what sounds you can get out of it with your fingers on the keys, not on various knobs.

 

Anyway, just wanted to share - any of you VR09 users out there should consider getting its sibling, the RD64. Excellent piano sound, and surprisingly good organ sounds too.

 

(the link below shows a rig of both keys, not mine, but pictures from Ed Diaz's website)

 

https://scontent.fsnc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/p180x540/10339620_1444026382505849_8341455305676657069_n.jpg?oh=e2cde5a61dfa5ab68b780a1e55536871&oe=56524C92

 

here's a U-Toob video of the two in action:

 

(and no, i don't work for roland, just starting to dig their emphasis on simplicity and ease of use for their interfaces).

[EscapeRocks]

This is a great tip. My question is:how do you get a FOH feed into the Rolls? What send from the mixer is used? Thanks

 

Rustar, it simply an FOH monitor send, just as would plug directly into my Shure wireless in ear transmitter.

 

If you look at the Rolls, it has separate inputs for "Instruments," "Mic," and "System."

 

The Mic is a standard XLR. My mic plugs into this, then goes out to FOH via the "MIC Thru" on the back of the Rolls. My adjust my mic in my ears does NOT affect the FOH.

 

My instruments attach to a TRS "Y" cable-2 female to one male.

Again adjusting my keys in m ears does NOT affect FOH.

 

Finally, the XLR monitor send from FOH, attache to my Rolls at the "System IN" jack via an XLR to 1/4 adapter.

 

During sound check we still go thru what everyone wants in their monitor. Same for me. I get all the relative levels I want from the guitar, bass, Drums, and vocals. I do not keys or my vocals from FOH.

 

I now have control over the band, my vocals, and my keys without having to wave my arms frantically at the monitor guy or FOH guy.

 

 

 

[EscapeRocks]

i have now gone one more step in making my rig easy to setup.

 

You may have seen a couple of my thread about making a pedal board.

 

Pedals are all attached to a board, then an 8 channel trs snake attaches to my keyboards.

 

Unfold Z-stand

Places Keyboards on stand

Put pedal board in place.

Plug snake into keyboards.

 

Done.

 

Sound engineer just need to give me a mic line and the two lines to my Radial D2 DI box, which is attached to the pedal board, and also part of the snake.

 

Take me no time at all now to setup and tear down. No wrapping individual audio and pedal cables.

[vonnor]

...

Unfold Z-stand

Places Keyboards on stand

Put pedal board in place.

Plug snake into keyboards.

 

Done...

 

...Takes me no time at all now to setup and tear down...

 

Welcome to my world, Dave.

 

I just added another snake between my rack and keyboards carrying both midi and audio. Now the only loose cables in the rig are the power cords.

 

~ BC

[Bob L]

Agree with the simplification concept. I use unweighted clonewheel, weighted digital piano/synth. I don't think I would consider adding a third keyboard ever (might replace clonewheel with more versatile clonewheel....). I use a combo amp (not a favored technology on this forum) as it gives me three channel mixer, plus monitor channel from the board, plus direct out to FOH in one box. I am often tempted to purchase a rack and modules and that might offer some new cool sounds, but more stuff to lug around and to go wrong!

[David Loving]

Funny, I can go from an 11 lb. XW-P1, then a 25 lb. PX150, to a heavy XK3 System. Took all 3 last Saturday.

[Karl Sutton]

I've simplified too - Nord Stage 2

 

Now if I could figure out how to do this with my day job - film equipment! Especially flying - excess baggage & weight can really hurt the budget!

[CEB]

Most 'complicated' rig I ever used was a single board.

 

[AnotherScott]

I use a combo amp (not a favored technology on this forum) as it gives me three channel mixer, plus monitor channel from the board, plus direct out to FOH in one box.

Even though it doesn't sound as good, I often gig with my Roland SA300 instead of the mixer+ZXa1 combination, because of advantages in simplicity/ergonomics/setup time.

[AnotherScott]

Most 'complicated' rig I ever used was a single board.

For me, the issue isn't whether I can do a gig with a single board, but whether I can really enjoy doing a gig with a single board. It's hard enough to get most of what I want (in actions, sounds, controls, ergonomics) out of two boards, much less one. Maybe if I was doing the kind of gigs where you're using the same sound for 90% of what you're doing (i.e. pretty much all you're playing is piano, or all you're playing is organ), that's more viable. But with using lots of sounds, and using them in all kinds of LH/RH split combinations, 2 boards makes things so much easier and more enjoyable... Plus, I'm really lazy about setting up all kinds of things in advance. ;-) So the ability to mix/match/alter sounds on the fly is something I rely on, and again, is easier to do when you have two boards. As an aside, though, I've started playing with an Artis7, and the Artis interface is one of the best I've come across for single-board flexibility. There are ways it could be better, but it's pretty good.

[CEB]

Board wasn't an issue. It was the the MIDI patcher and programming the TX modules and the other synths and learning all the ways you could hang notes so you would know what to never do.

 

Having only one board gave me a cleaner look which I liked and it simplified the MIDI matrix ( by eliminating routing options ).

[AnotherScott]

I haven't used a rack live in a very long time. Every now and then I think about it, I do have some nice modules I really like, but when push comes to shove, my slant towards simplicity wins out... less gear to bring, less to find a place for and wire up, less to troubleshoot if there's a problem... But I can't quite bring myself to foreclose the possibility. ;-)

[vonnor]

For me, the issue isn't whether I can do a gig with a single board, but whether I can really enjoy doing a gig with a single board. It's hard enough to get most of what I want (in actions, sounds, controls, ergonomics) out of two boards, much less one. Maybe if I was doing the kind of gigs where you're using the same sound for 90% of what you're doing (i.e. pretty much all you're playing is piano, or all you're playing is organ), that's more viable. But with using lots of sounds, and using them in all kinds of LH/RH split combinations, 2 boards makes things so much easier and more enjoyable...

[allan_evett]

I've done the most recent gigs this summer with an S90XS, a DI, and a Yamaha DXR12; previously I'd included an XK-1C, a separate mixer, plus a MiniNova a couple of times. I went to the single 'board for the remaining fests of the summer after a sound engineer bitched at the band for starting 15 minutes late - after letting the prior act run until 5 minutes before our scheduled start ( then they had to off-load their gear, first). Screw the multi-key rig, I'm done.