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Stop/brake Leslie on stage pianos?


Kawai James

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Hello chaps,

 

When it comes to built-in Leslie speaker simulations the majority of stage pianos allow the rotor speed to be toggled using a foot switch or a panel button. However, I wonder how many boards also model the stop/brake function?

 

I personally love the sound of a Leslie when it spins from the stopped position to fast, and use it on quite a few tunes. It's recreated pretty well on my Electro and other clonewheels, but how about fully-fledged stage pianos?

 

Cheers,

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.

Nord Electro 3 fan &

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I'm not sure what you mean, but maybe this is a "correct" answer. The Casio PX-5S can do stop/slow/fast in its Leslie model, and I've set up some Stage Settings to do Stop/Fast as a toggle because I prefer it as well.

 

Do you have your Electro 3 set up to do stop/fast in some way? The only way I can do stop/fast on my Electro 2 is via the button on the panel. The external switch seems to only do slow/fast.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Sorry, I wasn't specifically referring to controlling the stop using a footswitch. My question was about which stage pianos model the 'stop' position. It's good to hear that the PX-5S does, although this does not surprise me as it's an incredibly strong board.

 

Do you have your Electro 3 set up to do stop/fast in some way? The only way I can do stop/fast on my Electro 2 is via the button on the panel. The external switch seems to only do slow/fast.

 

Yes, I use the footswitch to toggle slow/fast. When 'stop' is selected from the panel, it overrides the slow speed (pressing the footswitch goes from stop to fast and back to stop), which I believe is the correct behaviour of a real Hammond+Leslie.

 

Cheers,

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.

Nord Electro 3 fan &

.
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I have a Leslie 45, and that only does stop/fast.

 

The only way to disengage Stop on my Electro 2 is the panel switch, and it goes to whatever slow/fast setting is set. Footswitch only toggles slow/fast. I didn't know that changed on the E3.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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..and a Leslie 145,147,122,251, etc also don't do stop by default - the tremolo switch only has two positions, tremolo and chorale.

 

My VR09 allows you to turn off the Leslie simulation, but I don't think there is a way to get single-speed Leslie behaviour out of it.

 

I have a 760 and 51. I haven't missed stop enough to even bother wiring up the extra switch in my organ.. if I do, it will be a switch to select between slow and stop, like the Leslie Combo Preamp 2. I definitely do not want a three-position tremolo switch. I also do not like foot controllers. Maybe I would change my mind if I got rid of the bass pedals.

 

Wes

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3

Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H

Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9

Roland: VR-09, RD-800

 

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My VR09 allows you to turn off the Leslie simulation, but I don't think there is a way to get single-speed Leslie behaviour out of it.

According to the owners manual you can set the slow speed of both the horn and low rotor from 0-127; so I'm assuming that 0 speed should simulate stop.

 

Wf Slow Speed

Specifying the Woofers Slow Rotation Speed (Wf Slow Speed)

This specifies the rotational speed of the woofer at slow speed.

0127

Tw Slow Speed

Specifying the Tweeters Slow Rotation Speed (Tw Slow Speed)

This specifies the rotational speed of the tweeter at slow speed.

0127

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

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I have a Leslie 45, and that only does stop/fast.

 

The only way to disengage Stop on my Electro 2 is the panel switch, and it goes to whatever slow/fast setting is set. Footswitch only toggles slow/fast. I didn't know that changed on the E3.

 

No, I don't believe it has changed on the NE3 (I also have an NE2). By default the footswitch alternates between slow and fast rotor. When the 'stop' panel button is set, the footswitch alternates between stop and fast rotor.

 

Cheers,

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.

Nord Electro 3 fan &

.
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Thank you for the additional replies Wes and Dave.

 

I hear the 'stop'/'brake' sound on quite a few 60s jazz, soul, and funk recordings, so assumed it was a standard feature of most Hammond+Leslie combinations back in the day, but apparently this is not the case?

 

Can anyone provide a useful resource that explains when the 'brake' was introduced, etc.?

 

Cheers,

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.

Nord Electro 3 fan &

.
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I have a Leslie 45, and that only does stop/fast.

 

The only way to disengage Stop on my Electro 2 is the panel switch, and it goes to whatever slow/fast setting is set. Footswitch only toggles slow/fast. I didn't know that changed on the E3.

 

No, I don't believe it has changed on the NE3 (I also have an NE2). By default the footswitch alternates between slow and fast rotor. When the 'stop' panel button is set, the footswitch alternates between stop and fast rotor.

 

Cheers,

James

x

If I could get my E2 to do that, I'd be very happy. But so far no luck. :idk:

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Thank you for the additional replies Wes and Dave.

 

I hear the 'stop'/'brake' sound on quite a few 60s jazz, soul, and funk recordings, so assumed it was a standard feature of most Hammond+Leslie combinations back in the day, but apparently this is not the case?

 

Can anyone provide a useful resource that explains when the 'brake' was introduced, etc.?

 

Cheers,

James

x

 

James, brake came last. First were single speed leslies with no slow motors, so all you had was stop or tremolo. Then they added slow motors and all you had was chorale and tremolo (unless you unplugged the slow motors). Then they added brake so you could have all three.

Moe

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"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

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The Kurzweil pro boards (PC3, PC3K, PC3LE) allow access to the Leslie stop function.

 

For the stage pianos like SP4, SP5 and Artis, you would need to have someone create a program on one of the PC3 boards and then import it into the stage piano.

 

 

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I have a Leslie 45, and that only does stop/fast.

 

The only way to disengage Stop on my Electro 2 is the panel switch, and it goes to whatever slow/fast setting is set. Footswitch only toggles slow/fast. I didn't know that changed on the E3.

 

No, I don't believe it has changed on the NE3 (I also have an NE2). By default the footswitch alternates between slow and fast rotor. When the 'stop' panel button is set, the footswitch alternates between stop and fast rotor.

 

Cheers,

James

x

If I could get my E2 to do that, I'd be very happy. But so far no luck. :idk:
same here... To my experience, when the brake is engaged, using the footswitch just changes the fast/slow setting for when the brake is disengaged via the front panel button, but will not disengage the brake... I'm really not figuring out how to go from stop to fast to stop all without touching the front panel, and I really don't think its possible...
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Mate, that's not quite right IIUC. Some or all single-speed Leslies came with brake, although many of these no longer work. So you had Fast or Stop, and the brake keeps the free-wheeling time down. Without brake, a wood rotor can keep spinning for almost 30 seconds if the bearings are in good condition and the belt is not too tight.

 

You can see this, for example, on the model 25 schematic for the motor control box. When the relay is not engaging the motors, it looks like it uses a single solid-state diode to put DC across the motor.

 

In the Model 50C, there appears to be an accessory brake socket. In the 51, the brake is built-in and appears to use a pair of solid-state diodes to put DC across the motors to slow them down. My 51 free-wheels nicely, I bet there is something wrong with the brake, likely an open cap or diode. I see that they changed the circuit to a separate sub-assembly in later 51s, I bet the factory had too many failures.

 

Anyhow, brake was around before 2-speed, and the 122s etc shipped with the brake jumper in place, so I suspect the brake accessory was available throughout its entire production life.

 

The 760-era solid state Leslies took an interesting approach, the slow motors are briefly (~5s) engaged when switching from tremolo to stop to effect braking.

 

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3

Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H

Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9

Roland: VR-09, RD-800

 

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I'm really not figuring out how to go from stop to fast to stop all without touching the front panel, and I really don't think its possible...

 

Here's a quick video of the footswitch Leslie behaviour on my NE3.

 

Apologies for the low light and shake camera work, but I think you should be able to see that it's possible to toggle between stop/fast/stop with the footswitch. Is this behaviour different on the NE2?

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhfrDpwVb6w

 

Cheers,

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.

Nord Electro 3 fan &

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http://www.nordkeyboards.com/products/nord%20electro%204/images/ne4-organ.jpg This is the Electro 4 (D on the left, the other models on the right). I believe the Rotary controls on the E3 are the same. I think that's what I saw in your first close-up in your video.

 

What you'll notice is that the option is "slow/stop." The upper button controls whether the lower button does Slow, or Stop. So, you either have Fast/Slow, or Fast/Stop.

 

The NE2 has three buttons in the Rotary section, On, Fast, and Stop. Fast actually toggles between Fast and Slow, Stop is either Stop or not. The pedal toggles between Fast and Slow. The Stop button is completely independent. You can go from Fast to Stop, or Slow to Stop, and back to whatever you set the Fast button to.

 

BTW, how do you bypass the Rotary effect completely on the E3?

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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BTW, how do you bypass the Rotary effect completely on the E3?

 

You turn off the Rotary amp model.

How do you do that? On the E2, it's just the On(Off) switch, but I didn't spot an equivalent on the E3 & E4. I might have missed it, though.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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