I do not think this is OT, but to Prius or not?

[Brettymike]

You should never buy a NEW car , unless you're Rich and/or, you don't care about setting fire to a fairly hefty pile of hard earned cash.

Always buy a well cared for car that's about 1-3 years old - if you can.

Using the wonderful Toyota Camry Hybrid as an example (here in NZ) -

A new 2013 beast = $55,000

A 2nd hand 2012 car = about $38,000

A 2nd hand 2012 car (non hybrid) = $30,000

So you're paying an extra $8000 for the Battery and electrics AND the superior ride experience and performance - the Hybrid Camry being a real grunt machine when you put your foot hard down , and the petrol motor and electric motor combined.

Here in NZ , petrol is ......$9.65 per gallon!!!,

So the Hybrid Camry - with it's big fuel saving will cover the extra $8000 in just over 6 years.

After driving one , I think it's well worth it.

Apparently the 600v battery is guaranteed for 160,000 klms , and new battery is about $3,500 NZ - and steadily falling.

 

Brett

[Adan]

Always buy a well cared for car that's about 1-3 years old - if you can.

 

That's a good strategy which obviously can't work for everyone. It's a very small percentage of people who: a) take good care of their cars, and b) sell them within 1-3 years.

[I-missRichardTee]

I recently considered a Harley or Jap bike. When I mentioned it to a wise friend, his words sobered me.. and this guy is no mouse. He said ride a bike long enough ( I live in S Cal ) and you are going to go down. Then I did a little wiki research... and I forgot the stats, but there is a huge ( not just 2 to 1, but some ridiculously risky ratio for bikers eg 10 : 1 or 25 : 1 - I cannot recall ) increase in either accidents or injuries on a bike versus a car. Ten or Twenty or even thirty times more likely to get hurt . The stats and the advice were too strong for me to ever get on a bike.

[Brettymike]

Always buy a well cared for car that's about 1-3 years old - if you can.

 

That's a good strategy which obviously can't work for everyone. It's a very small percentage of people who: a) take good care of their cars, and b) sell them within 1-3 years.

 

I find the complete opposite to be true in my country.

I have been working in and around the automotive industry for going on 38 years , and in my experience , the more expensive repair bills start to creep in (on average) at about 175,000klms or 13-15 years old (Japanese cars).

For European cars , you can expect trouble sooner , and about 3x the price.

Ask the tow truck drivers here in NZ , and the No.1 car towed the most is ......BMW! .

 

Brett

[Markyboard]

I should know this.. Mr SpookyB but is regularly lying an older Leslie down.. totally cool?

 

It been talked about before on other threads but yeah - laying it on its back is not a problem.

 

Wait...what are we talking about?

[Adan]

I recently considered a Harley or Jap bike. When I mentioned it to a wise friend, his words sobered me.. and this guy is no mouse. He said ride a bike long enough ( I live in S Cal ) and you are going to go down. Then I did a little wiki research... and I forgot the stats, but there is a huge ( not just 2 to 1, but some ridiculously risky ratio for bikers eg 10 : 1 or 25 : 1 - I cannot recall ) increase in either accidents or injuries on a bike versus a car. Ten or Twenty or even thirty times more likely to get hurt . The stats and the advice were too strong for me to ever get on a bike.

 

Being of the, uh, mature age that you are, if you're not experienced on bikes, then you probably shouldn't start now.

 

That said, motorcycle injury statistics, if you granulate them, vary widely based on factors like age and type of motorcycle. If you approach it the right way, the risk is not so bad, in my opinion.

[DulceLabs.com]

 

That said, motorcycle injury statistics, if you granulate them, vary widely based on factors like age and type of motorcycle. If you approach it the right way, the risk is not so bad, in my opinion.

 

Yup - I read that most accidents occur with 1 mile of your home.. so I just moved.

[Six-string-man]

I recently considered a Harley or Jap bike. When I mentioned it to a wise friend, his words sobered me.. and this guy is no mouse. He said ride a bike long enough ( I live in S Cal ) and you are going to go down. Then I did a little wiki research... and I forgot the stats, but there is a huge ( not just 2 to 1, but some ridiculously risky ratio for bikers eg 10 : 1 or 25 : 1 - I cannot recall ) increase in either accidents or injuries on a bike versus a car. Ten or Twenty or even thirty times more likely to get hurt . The stats and the advice were too strong for me to ever get on a bike.

 

In another life I worked for three months in a busy A&E (ER) department, as a porter. The medical staff there had a word for motorcyclists. They called them "Donors".

 

SSM

[Theo Verelst]

 

 

Here I tried to rende r a bit of my perspective

 

Meanwhile, in 014 there are supposed to get more seriously high MPG to satisfy the people not satisfied with nitpicking, like the Audi A3-Etron. This new type of hybrid gets in the sphere of 188 MPG, according to this test. Now that has my attention !

[JeffLearman]

Yes, and motorcycles are called "donorcycles". Still, the vast majority of bikers die of something else.

 

Always buy a well cared for car that's about 1-3 years old - if you can.

 

That's a good strategy which obviously can't work for everyone. It's a very small percentage of people who: a) take good care of their cars, and b) sell them within 1-3 years.

I disagree. A *lot* of people drive a car for three years and replace it (something I've never really understood). This is far more true for higher value vehicles, and white collar workers' rides to work, than for GHV-type cars -- except that a lot of white collar workers drive SUVs that would make great GHVs (yay).

 

The issue is whether you're the kind of person who can spot a good car from a lemon. I've been lucky with the used vehicles I've bought -- none of which fit the profile mentioned above.

 

Until the Prius, all our cars happen to have been American cars. Every car built after 1983 has lasted over 150K miles, without any special care other than standard routine maintenance. Cars that get lots of mileage per year last longer. For example, my wife had a Sebring convertible and had a 2hr round trip commute for several years, and that car was still running well at 190K miles when she traded it in on another of the same. Our son is now driving that car, with 160K on it (it missed those high-mileage commute years.)

 

My Town & Country has 145K on it now and needs some interior work (the headliner is falling down).

 

Other than the Sebring mentioned above (where we traded in a perfectly good car that would probably wear out soon), every failure at the end has been the transmission. By the time the tranny goes, there's usually enough other things about to die that it's not worth our while to replace the tranny. We do make a point of having a mechanic we trust to help us through the last few years, but I'm not even in the home stretch with the minivan (that is, nothing's broken yet that's not expected to be replaced based on the mileage).

 

My point is that most cars today don't require special attention, just an oil change every 5K and other fluid changes at larger intervals -- most of the latter of which haven't even been hit in 3 years of a new car. No special care, 150K miles. So from the point of economy, there's little point in buying new.

 

That said, there are plenty of reasons to prefer new. I usually buy new and keep it until it dies, so I only pay the "new car premium" every 10-15 years. If I were on a tighter budget, I'd buy used (and have, a number of times). Plus I would again, if the right opportunity arises.

[Brettymike]

A good write up Jeff , and yes , the automatic transmission is the No.1 cause of major (and very expensive) break down - even when they have been serviced and looked after.

Mr Tee , what do you think of DIESELS?.

Some of the diesel engines BEFORE the new computerized "common rail" diesels today are still the most reliable and long lasting engines on the planet.

Can I choose the most awesome and reliable TURBO DIESEL engined vehicle for you?? - with plenty of room for your gear , and is still the most reliable vehicle on the road today? - would be the last vehicle you need to buy in your lifetime.

It's about 10 years old now, but it doesn't matter.

I have NEVER (me Diesel Engineer/Mechanic with FREE advice ) had to repair it's engine or running gear (has to be a manual transmission) yet in the 20 odd years it was manufactured.

 

Brett

[JeffLearman]

I miss manual transmissions!

[duff beer]

I miss manual transmissions!

I don't. I spent 20 years driving manuals and finally decided that there was no point when today's computer controlled automatics can shift better and faster than 99.9% of drivers on the road. No one "needs" a manual unless they are a professional race car driver.

[Brettymike]

Yeah..... right.

There are quite a list of advantages with a manual transmission , the best being the fact that when they finally start getting worn or "tired"(usually after they've gone to Jupiter and back) , they give you a ton of warning , and will never leave you stranded and totally buggered on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere , like an automatic can - and will eventually do > with NO warning.

 

You must be buying near new autotran's cars , and flicking them well before - say 150,000 klms ?.

[Michael W]

I miss manual transmissions!

 

So did we, especially my wife. So a couple of months ago she bought this Honda Civic Si with a 6-speed manual. I've taken it on a couple of 700-mile weekend trips and it is way fun to drive. The back seat folds down, so I can even carry a couple of synths in the trunk.

 

 

http://www.fototime.com/D0E0BAC2A082A75/standard.jpg

[Michael W]

No one "needs" a manual unless they are a professional race car driver.

 

But they may want them because they're just damn fun to drive.

[Michael W]

He said ride a bike long enough ( I live in S Cal ) and you are going to go down.

 

I lived in suburban LA some years back, when I was younger, and had a motorcycle. I loved it and was as safe a driver as I could possibly be. But then one day, in a split second, I was flying through the air. I am here to write about it because I was wearing a helmet. I walked away from an accident that very easily could have killed me or left me disabled for life. I've never ridden since.

 

[Brettymike]

I love motorbikes, and have ridden them since I was 13 for about nearly 20 years. Had lots of bikes , starting on 50cc and ending up on 900cc.

You have to use CONSTANT defensive driving , getting ready to slam the brakes on at every intersection.

The more common danger is the slippery wet road occasionally , got me a few times.

But plenty of people I knew have been killed on them , through reckless speed and throwing defensive driving out the window.

They are sooo much fun if you are careful.

BTW nice Honda! - Honda's are great .

 

Brett

[Theo Verelst]

Of course the Tesla is an interesting option, albeit expensive thus far (for someone who currently has no money, that's for sure, maybe for engineers, at least moderately successful musicians, medium incomes, that's less of an objection). If I'd have the luck of living in California, I'd be able to power charge the Tesla directly from Solar power on distance trips, that'd be cool.

 

I always used the front seat of the type of car I've driven most of my life for digi piano:

 

http://www.theover.org/Keybdmg/audi_0.82_mantiuk06_0.95_0.69_5.7.jpg

 

My first one (a Audi 100, 5 cyl, 85 kW of the second generation) would do 12.5 km/l (29 MPG) on the highway, which was pretty much a record for the time for such a big (for European standards) car.

 

Of course a station or hatchback kind makes sense, I know that makes a lot more space for sure. It does surprise me that a hybrid doesn't really get further than the 47 MPG I could easily get from a fully packed Renault Clio (also a sort of hatchback), in the city and on the highway. And that one was even pretty fast. Maybe the modern hybrids have special luxuries (I've never had an airco'd car in my life, and the current Audi 100 2.3l I use now sounds more like a sportscar than the silent limo I was used to, and the Renault Clio cannot possibly damp the whole engine and wheel and air noises).

 

Of course I always drive a stick. New-bred electronic flippers would do to !

 

T

[JeffLearman]

Yeah..... right.

There are quite a list of advantages with a manual transmission , the best being the fact that when they finally start getting worn or "tired"(usually after they've gone to Jupiter and back) , they give you a ton of warning , and will never leave you stranded and totally buggered on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere , like an automatic can - and will eventually do > with NO warning.

That's what I miss most, these days. Driving a minivan, it's obviously not about the fun sportcar aspect (which I did enjoy but balance that with driving while eating a burger and reading a map -- oh wait, we don't do that any more either.)

[DanL]

Wait....how do you get the Leslie on your motorcycle?

 

For sure, if someone is looking for significant acceleration (along with the other requirements), then the Prius ain't it.

 

Ventilator, it'll fit easy! I actually have experimented with strapping my Stage compact in it's gig bag to the back for rehearsal. The only thing that stopped me was the bungee cords pressed down on the keys and I didn't want any to snap off any of them when I went over a bump. If I reinforce the top with a thin sheet of laminate or something, it'd work. It's not a lot wider than my bike is.

 

As far as the motorcycle crashing stuff, yeah, it's an issue. You need to ride like you are invisible, it's the only way to stay safe. Cars turning left in front of you are the main cause of accidents. Otherwise- it's people wrecking themselves. Drinking and riding, taking a turn to fast and going off the road, things like that. I wear full protective gear all the time and do everything I can to minimize my risks.

[I-missRichardTee]

I recently considered a Harley or Jap bike. When I mentioned it to a wise friend, his words sobered me.. and this guy is no mouse. He said ride a bike long enough ( I live in S Cal ) and you are going to go down. Then I did a little wiki research... and I forgot the stats, but there is a huge ( not just 2 to 1, but some ridiculously risky ratio for bikers eg 10 : 1 or 25 : 1 - I cannot recall ) increase in either accidents or injuries on a bike versus a car. Ten or Twenty or even thirty times more likely to get hurt . The stats and the advice were too strong for me to ever get on a bike.

 

Being of the, uh, mature age that you are, if you're not experienced on bikes, then you probably shouldn't start now.

 

That said, motorcycle injury statistics, if you granulate them, vary widely based on factors like age and type of motorcycle. If you approach it the right way, the risk is not so bad, in my opinion.

 

Excuse me, what does granulate them mean.. factoring in age?

My friend was quite emphatic and "final", do not ride a bike, unless falling to the ground is acceptable to you! The stats were waaaay out of proportion. I wish I could find them. I thought it was 35 to 1 kind of a stat.. it made bike riding an absolute no no. I really wanted to try it. I should think in a rural area, perhaps, slower speeds?

[mate stubb]

I've been riding since I was 18. I've never been down, except on freshly gravelled roads, and that was with no car in sight.

 

I had one near miss where a guy pulled out blind in front of me because a semi was parked blocking his view at the intersection.

 

You basically have to ride like every car is trying to kill you, and remain supremely alert.

[ITGITC]

Being of the, uh, mature age that you are, if you're not experienced on bikes, then you probably shouldn't start now.

 

That said, motorcycle injury statistics, if you granulate them, vary widely based on factors like age and type of motorcycle. If you approach it the right way, the risk is not so bad, in my opinion.

 

Excuse me, what does granulate them mean.. factoring in age?

My friend was quite emphatic and "final", do not ride a bike, unless falling to the ground is acceptable to you! The stats were waaaay out of proportion. I wish I could find them. I thought it was 35 to 1 kind of a stat.. it made bike riding an absolute no no. I really wanted to try it. I should think in a rural area, perhaps, slower speeds?

 

It means that if you look more closely at the statistics, you'll find that information specific to your age and the type of motorcycle you have factor heavily into a decision regarding whether or not you should be riding.

 

For some of us, we should never consider a motorcycle as our primary means of transportation.

 

We're too busy texting & posting to The Keyboard Corner!

 

ITGITC?

 

PS I'm closing in fast on 16,000 posts! I'm thinking this is yet another good reason to party! C'mon guys - first round is on me!

 

 

 

 

[I-missRichardTee]

I recently considered a Harley or Jap bike. When I mentioned it to a wise friend, his words sobered me.. and this guy is no mouse. He said ride a bike long enough ( I live in S Cal ) and you are going to go down. Then I did a little wiki research... and I forgot the stats, but there is a huge ( not just 2 to 1, but some ridiculously risky ratio for bikers eg 10 : 1 or 25 : 1 - I cannot recall ) increase in either accidents or injuries on a bike versus a car. Ten or Twenty or even thirty times more likely to get hurt . The stats and the advice were too strong for me to ever get on a bike.

 

In another life I worked for three months in a busy A&E (ER) department, as a porter. The medical staff there had a word for motorcyclists. They called them "Donors".

 

SSM

 

Thank you for CONFIRMING my friends wise advice. Kiddies, be very very careful on your bikes.. You guys pass me on freeways, at speed, and I worry about you. I have personally seen a few guys down on the freeway pavement in the past few years.

Maybe there is another side to this issue, as some folks think they are not the DONOR type. i hope they are right!

[I-missRichardTee]

This is not a thread about motorcycle safety though ;-)

I am still tempted to buy a used van with a Tommygate, so there is NO lift. ( The young waiters can help me lift "it" on to a stage)

 

If I were considering the somewhat impractical idea of carrying 1 or 2 Leslies to a gig, by buying a used truck with a gate on it.. which ones comes to mind??

[Bif_]

 

If I were considering the somewhat impractical idea of carrying 1 or 2 Leslies to a gig, by buying a used truck with a gate on it.. which ones comes to mind??

 

All of them.

[Bif_]

This is not a thread about motorcycle safety though ;-)

and it's not a thread about Prius's anymore either.

[Brettymike]

This is not a thread about motorcycle safety though ;-)

I am still tempted to buy a used van with a Tommygate, so there is NO lift. ( The young waiters can help me lift "it" on to a stage)

 

If I were considering the somewhat impractical idea of carrying 1 or 2 Leslies to a gig, by buying a used truck with a gate on it.. which ones comes to mind??

 

Did you see my post #2538506 from yesterday?

 

Brett

[Brettymike]

Yeah..... right.

There are quite a list of advantages with a manual transmission , the best being the fact that when they finally start getting worn or "tired"(usually after they've gone to Jupiter and back) , they give you a ton of warning , and will never leave you stranded and totally buggered on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere , like an automatic can - and will eventually do > with NO warning.

That's what I miss most, these days. Driving a minivan, it's obviously not about the fun sportcar aspect (which I did enjoy but balance that with driving while eating a burger and reading a map -- oh wait, we don't do that any more either.)

 

Jeff , if you're stuck at a red light , you just pull out a map and start reading it , and the light usually goes green straight away .

I like manual trans also , because they use less fuel , if you ever get a flat battery you can roll start , if having tuning problems with the engine - less likely to stall , and you don't have to get the manual trans serviced every 30-40,000klms at about $200 a pop.

 

Brett