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Playing piano in a country band


jcazzy

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With all due respect, Steve.. without "being there", why assume it's the older players rigidity, when it could be the pianists' parts, getting in his way, due to his learning curve of the genre and the way these guys play it. Fact is we do not know!

 

 

"With all due respect". Who doesn't love that phrase :laugh:

 

First of all, I know a little something about grouchy old men because I am one! :wave:

 

Second of all, I know a little something about playing keys in Country music and I stand by my post.

From the clips, it's clear that they are playing traditional Country covers. Go to the record and see what the piano plays during the guitar solos and learn from that.

Unless the guitar player signs your check, (or has more juice with whoever does than you do), tell him you didn't join the band to sit on your hands. You came to play.

From what I heard, your doing just fine. I think his problem is he is overly impressed with himself (a common guitar player malady) :laugh:

 

And as long as I'm venting, I have to say something about the preponderance of "less is more", duck and cover, play whole notes, 3 note chords, no 3rds, blah blah blah advice in this thread. Sometimes less is more, and sometimes less is just less. The OP would be better served by learning that there is a difference and knowing when (and how) to go one way or the other is indicative of a more nuanced player.

I don't hide from another soloist. I try hard to enhance, support and inspire. Music is the ultimate collaborative art form. Come to play and strive to make your band mates play even better.

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Yeah Steve thumbs up, from this here grouchy hombre!

Steve and other nuanced players ha ha.. seriously.. this guitar player piano player playing at the same time thing, is a constant issue for me.

I have noticed most of the players I play with do not seem to be as sensitive to "collisions" of notes, such as the major third and fourth in a chord that guitarist are drawn to.. there are many others that I cannot come up with here. I only know about the collisions when they occur.

Since I seem to be more nuanced.. I tend to just back down, sometimes frustratedly so. I am not going to tell guitar players or horn players they are stepping on top of stuff rather insensitively.. I have been in my share of disputations with musicians, and as I age, I just don't want to ruffle any more feathers.

The topic though of how to be collaborative with a bass player and pianist

and a guitarist and pianist, is a very interesting topic to me. As I said I deal with it all the time.. not to mention issues about tempo, oye.

Thanks for listening

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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With all due respect, Steve.. without "being there", why assume it's the older players rigidity, when it could be the pianists' parts, getting in his way, due to his learning curve of the genre and the way these guys play it. Fact is we do not know!

 

 

"With all due respect". Who doesn't love that phrase :laugh:

 

First of all, I know a little something about grouchy old men because I am one! :wave:

 

Second of all, I know a little something about playing keys in Country music and I stand by my post.

From the clips, it's clear that they are playing traditional Country covers. Go to the record and see what the piano plays during the guitar solos and learn from that.

Unless the guitar player signs your check, (or has more juice with whoever does than you do), tell him you didn't join the band to sit on your hands. You came to play.

From what I heard, your doing just fine. I think his problem is he is overly impressed with himself (a common guitar player malady) :laugh:

 

And as long as I'm venting, I have to say something about the preponderance of "less is more", duck and cover, play whole notes, 3 note chords, no 3rds, blah blah blah advice in this thread. Sometimes less is more, and sometimes less is just less. The OP would be better served by learning that there is a difference and knowing when (and how) to go one way or the other is indicative of a more nuanced player.

I don't hide from another soloist. I try hard to enhance, support and inspire. Music is the ultimate collaborative art form. Come to play and strive to make your band mates play even better.

 

Thanks Steve for your opinion and advice here. I have to admit that I come from a rock'n'roll background so that probably didn't help me going into a country band, although my early influences in music was listening to country/gospel/rock. I'll definitely take your advice and go to the records to see what is actually played during the leads. Everyone must understand that when I took this gig that it was a spur of the moment thing and I had to rely on memory how most of the songs are played.

 

I have always tried to enhance what the rest of the band is doing but I'm not sure what the guitar player is trying to accomplish with this right now.

 

Again, we are friends so this isn't anything personal.

John Cassetty

 

"there is no dark side of the moon, really. As a matter of fact it's all dark"

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....I don't hide from another soloist. I try hard to enhance, support and inspire. Music is the ultimate collaborative art form. Come to play and strive to make your band mates play even better.

 

Great advice Steve, but in this instance, the OP already tried it and it didn't work. Time to go back to the drawing board. At this point he's got several choices - continue trying to enhance the guitar player's solos and get fired, not play at all during the solos and take the life out of the music, or try some techniques to simplify what he's doing and ask the guitar player to give him another chance.

 

As we all know, every collaborative situation is different. This one would be a great opportunity to work on the less-is-more approach I've been talking about. It doesn't mean he has to always play this way, but it is a technique every country piano player should have under his/her belt for when it's needed. What bugs me (from one grouchy old man to another) is the inability of some players to grasp the concept. :)

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....I don't hide from another soloist. I try hard to enhance, support and inspire. Music is the ultimate collaborative art form. Come to play and strive to make your band mates play even better.

 

Great advice Steve, but in this instance, the OP already tried it and it didn't work. Time to go back to the drawing board. At this point he's got several choices - continue trying to enhance the guitar player's solos and get fired, not play at all during the solos and take the life out of the music, or try some techniques to simplify what he's doing and ask the guitar player to give him another chance.

 

As we all know, every collaborative situation is different. This one would be a great opportunity to work on the less-is-more approach I've been talking about. It doesn't mean he has to always play this way, but it is a technique every country piano player should have under his/her belt for when it's needed. What bugs me (from one grouchy old man to another) is the inability of some players to grasp the concept. :)

 

Agree with the wisdom here Steve. I mentioned earlier, that a player like you.. being a top tier country player.. you may well literally have skipped playing with 4th 3rd tier players. It's like quoting Shakespeare to a mentality used to Family Guy ( sorry if I ve offended anyone here to be fair I do not listen to Shakespeare.. this is a mere analogy with drama and music ! ).

Maybe Steve COULD actually inspire that band, but none of us here are Steve Nathan level Country Western players, at least in this thread! So less is more, is safer bet. It is not copping out.. the OP knows he can do better. FInesse takes time, better to be minimalistic while developing a new style.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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With all due respect, Steve.. without "being there", why assume it's the older players rigidity, when it could be the pianists' parts, getting in his way, due to his learning curve of the genre and the way these guys play it. Fact is we do not know!

 

 

"With all due respect". Who doesn't love that phrase :laugh:

 

First of all, I know a little something about grouchy old men because I am one! :wave:

 

Second of all, I know a little something about playing keys in Country music and I stand by my post.

From the clips, it's clear that they are playing traditional Country covers. Go to the record and see what the piano plays during the guitar solos and learn from that.

Unless the guitar player signs your check, (or has more juice with whoever does than you do), tell him you didn't join the band to sit on your hands. You came to play.

From what I heard, your doing just fine. I think his problem is he is overly impressed with himself (a common guitar player malady) :laugh:

 

And as long as I'm venting, I have to say something about the preponderance of "less is more", duck and cover, play whole notes, 3 note chords, no 3rds, blah blah blah advice in this thread. Sometimes less is more, and sometimes less is just less. The OP would be better served by learning that there is a difference and knowing when (and how) to go one way or the other is indicative of a more nuanced player.

I don't hide from another soloist. I try hard to enhance, support and inspire. Music is the ultimate collaborative art form. Come to play and strive to make your band mates play even better.

 

YES. Players play. Unless it pays really really well I would look for a new gig. Or new guitar player. I feel more sorry for the vocalist trying to sing over all that noodling in Working Man Blues. It is the storyline and rhythm guitar that makes the song iconic.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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There are some posters in this thread who are completely wrong imho. I was in a kick ass country band many years ago in Canada and they had both a guitar AND a steel yet they also wanted me. This was a good pro outfit and did some pretty big gigs. Before they brought in the steel I was doing a fair amount of organ but soon realized organ and steel really don't live together very well, they're in the same freq range and both do a lot of sustain stuff. I had to fit in some piano licks but licks only very little rhythm because the guitarist was covering that.

 

Your guitarist is feeling some missing steel parts and is trying to cover them, it doesn't leave much room for you. You can do steel parts on a keyboard using the pitch wheel, your volume pedal and an EP sound. You could try messing around with that maybe talk to him about it.

 

Since country is heavily guitar centric just like a lot of heavy R&R it's up to the keyboard player to find his place and not get in the way of the guitarist. Listen to the original recordings. If you really want to hear how a keyboard player stays out of the way of the guitarists listen to the Allman Brothers. Greg will simply back way off when the two guitarists are doing their thing and come back in when it's appropriate.

 

In the first vid the guitarist is doing lots of little licks during the verse then he stops and does some rhythm. That's your cue to play some little piano fills. You both can't be playing fills or rhythm at the same time so you have to listen to what he's doing. This is the key. There's times I'll literally play "air keyboard" because I have to stay out of the way. When working with country guitarists it's up to you to pick your spots.

 

Bottom line I'm on the old man's side. Guitar comes first in a country band, piano second. If you want to do it right then you have to be true to the country vibe and that means sparse keyboards.

 

Bob

Hammond SK1, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
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There are some posters in this thread who are completely wrong imho. I was in a kick ass country band many years ago in Canada and they had both a guitar AND a steel yet they also wanted me. This was a good pro outfit and did some pretty big gigs. Before they brought in the steel I was doing a fair amount of organ but soon realized organ and steel really don't live together very well, they're in the same freq range and both do a lot of sustain stuff. I had to fit in some piano licks but licks only very little rhythm because the guitarist was covering that.

 

Your guitarist is feeling some missing steel parts and is trying to cover them, it doesn't leave much room for you. You can do steel parts on a keyboard using the pitch wheel, your volume pedal and an EP sound. You could try messing around with that maybe talk to him about it.

 

Since country is heavily guitar centric just like a lot of heavy R&R it's up to the keyboard player to find his place and not get in the way of the guitarist. Listen to the original recordings. If you really want to hear how a keyboard player stays out of the way of the guitarists listen to the Allman Brothers. Greg will simply back way off when the two guitarists are doing their thing and come back in when it's appropriate.

 

In the first vid the guitarist is doing lots of little licks during the verse then he stops and does some rhythm. That's your cue to play some little piano fills. You both can't be playing fills or rhythm at the same time so you have to listen to what he's doing. This is the key. There's times I'll literally play "air keyboard" because I have to stay out of the way. When working with country guitarists it's up to you to pick your spots.

 

Bottom line I'm on the old man's side. Guitar comes first in a country band, piano second. If you want to do it right then you have to be true to the country vibe and that means sparse keyboards.

 

Bob

 

Totally, this.

 

 

____________________________________
Rod

Here for the gear.

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Even Brent doesn't spew over the vocal lines and he can play some pretty fancy guitar stuff. LOL!

 

I play guitar in a kickass Country Band. I actually I want to change the name to Kickass Country Band. When I grow up I want to play like Brent.

 

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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You could also switch to organ for his solos and just hold down chords. Use a non-obtrusive yet sonically filling 844402002-type setting. He may be more open to that, and you can always start adding piano comping down the road a bit.

The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

 

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

 

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organ and steel really don't live together very well, they're in the same freq range and both do a lot of sustain stuff.

 

Not if the organ and steel players do it right. I like to say that I get the credit or blame, depending on your feelings about it, for bringing B3 into Country music. When I moved to Nashville 20 some years ago, B3s were referred to as "Steel Killers" and the reasons you cited were given as the reason why.

Then Tony Brown convinced Vince Gill and then Wynonna Judd to let me play B3 on their records and to this day you'd be hard pressed to find very many contemporary Country records that don't have organ and steel on them. It's a matter of the two players knowing how to complement each other in their sounds and parts. I play organ nearly every day with guys like Dan Dugmore, or Paul Franklin, and it works.

 

Now back to the topic at hand. Did you notice in the two clips that CEB posted of the Players that John Hobbs stays rhythmic and out front active under Brent's, Paul's and Vince's solos.

If you dig up Vince's recording of that song, you'll hear the great Barry Beckett playing his ass off and not dropping back an inch when the guitar solo plays.

 

Bottom line I'm on the old man's side. Guitar comes first in a country band, piano second.

 

Tell that to Charlie Rich, Ronnie Milsap or Phil Vassar :laugh:

 

Oh and finally, take the advice from anyone who still uses the term "Country and Western" with a block of salt. :rimshot:

 

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I admit my experience with country was about 25 years ago but listen to Brents video. The piano disappears for about three choruses and he's not on camera but I know he's playing air keyboards like I said until Brent comes back after the steel solo. Then the piano does some hot licks and Brent completely backs off his rhythm. Trust me, that's written in the chart and is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. But of course when you're up at this level anything and everything is done and done well because everybody is a monster player and knows exactly how to fit in. That level of player is not what we're talking about here. This thread is about a local bar band and what's going on there is very common and I'm just laying out some suggestions for those guys down in the local trenches.

 

Btw, that's very cool about you bringing a B3 into country, I'll have to check some of that out because I was having a hard time fitting in with the steel player. I wasn't trying to be a steel killer, I recognized then that it had to be him, not me taking the lead so I backed off a lot but I did put a few nice organ parts in some tunes, mostly ballads.

 

Bob

Hammond SK1, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
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The piano and steel are there but down in the mix like it should be. Here is what the guitars rides sound like when it realy disappears. LOL! Really empty. I'm not a big fan of country or Rock trios ..... unless it is Rush.

 

[video:youtube]

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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.Btw, that's very cool about you bringing a B3 into country, I'll have to check some of that out because I was having a hard time fitting in with the steel player. I wasn't trying to be a steel killer, I recognized then that it had to be him, not me taking the lead so I backed off a lot but I did put a few nice organ parts in some tunes, mostly ballads.

 

Bob

 

A lot of it depends on the style of steel. Organ can work pretty good with a modernized west coast style stuff. But the old traditional slow expessive fill stuff, especially when done on the C6 neck like Dad likes, doesn't play well with organ. Because those guys are the organ. The use their volume pedal like an organ player does. Like old Ray Price stuff wiith Emmons and Jimmy Day.

 

Ralph Mooney picked a steel like a 6 string with a lot of twang and bite. The styles that decended from that approach can co-exist with a Hammond quite well. I've never known Ralph to have worked with an organ though.

 

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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Its music. Music is give and take, conversational. You cant have a discussion of any merit if 2 or more people are talking OVER each other. On the other hand, you cant have a discussion if one person is mute.

 

The important thing is to use your ears. The guitarist needs to listen as well, but dont bank on him doing it. If youre comping behind a soloist, with some luck, youre helping him/her get to their climax (its a conversation, so there should be an arc, right?), and maybe even doing the musical equivalent of testifying (think of it as the congregation piping in with an occasional Amen! or thats right! or Tell him Brotha!) via chording, building tension.

 

Personally, for me at this point, if the band cant help themselves GET OFF THE SCRIPT, I dont want to know about it anymore. I dont think its as important to reproduce every lick on a record, as it is to be musical. And just like food, sex, and exercise, if you do the same thing every time, even if it works at the beginning, its not going to hold any value. You need to switch things up. Sex as a routine gets boring; food as a routine becomes bland; music as routine is..EVIL.

 

Lots of great advice here: take it all in, try to implement all of it (not at the same time!), and then once you have figured out how to make the various approaches work, FORGET ALL OF IT. And start playing instinctively. Above all, LISTEN!!!! Your ears, if you use them, will inform you what the correct tool for that song is.

 

Good luck!

 

Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
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With any instrument, you have to recognize when you're undermining other instruments. When it happens, you can either modify your approach, or if what you're doing is crucial, ask other players to modify theirs. Ideally, this conversation goes on without words, but now and then a word or two can work wonders. (Not in this case, of course.)

 

When I started regularly playing Hammond parts (mostly at blues jams) I quickly realized that it can really interfere with blues harp if you're not careful. I haven't played with a pedal steel but I'd expect similar issues. The general solution is usually pretty easy: don't do what the other player is doing, unless you're really doing it together on purpose for a good reason (e.g., doubling bass with left hand on piano, big fun and great sound IMHO -- but only if both players are doing it.)

 

It happens on guitar too, with two-guitar bands. It's very easy to step on each other if you're not being sensible and musical. My usual approach on guitar is similar to organ: lay off the downbeats and come in smoothly behind the ball, so to speak. I'm usually the weaker guitarist, and it helps to lay back a little, let the stronger player carry the pulse.

 

The first time I played with the best guitarist I've shared a stage with, I was caught off guard because he was taking the same approach I was. After a few collisions I decided to act more like most other (blues jam) guitarists and jump on that downbeat. That guitarist is now back in Nashville, and I miss playing with him, whatever instrument I'm on. Fortunately, he still comes to town now and then, and his usual keyboard player lets me sit in. :)

 

I'm a technically weak player, without a deep lexicon, and fairly limited skills overall, with a few good tricks. But happily for me, a lot of far better musicians enjoy playing with me, and I think the main reason is that I try to pay as much attention to what they're doing as to what I'm doing.

 

While I happily sit out some solos, I sure wouldn't want to play in a band where it's the general rule.

 

Good luck changing old guy's mind, though.

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Well said ! A real good tool would be recording rehearsals as well .. See what guitar is doing and experiment with different comps.Maybe even different voices. I received compliments from band leaders because I would change patches in a tune. Sometimes up to four Something to consider.

 

"A good mix is subjective to one's cilia." http://hitnmiss.yolasite.com
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The piano and steel are there but down in the mix like it should be. Here is what the guitars rides sound like when it realy disappears. LOL! Really empty. I'm not a big fan of country or Rock trios ..... unless it is Rush.

 

Considering this is a keyboard forum, I completely agree!

 

Bob

Hammond SK1, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
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The piano disappears for about three choruses..... Trust me, that's written in the chart

:crazy:

 

With all due respect wtf are you talking about. Are you telling me you can't hear the piano playing behind Brent's solo??

And "Trust you, it's written in the chart". There are no charts. They're not reading, they're not even using a skeletal number chart. They're just playing "head" arrangements. They know Workin' Man Blues by heart. When Vince sits in to play Liza Jane, he doesn't hand out staff paper. They've all known the song from hearing it, and they're jamming.

If it isn't obvious, these are friends of mine, close friends I've played and hung out with for nearly 40 years. Brent would not be happy if Hobbs "played Air Piano" during his solos.

 

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The piano disappears for about three choruses..... Trust me, that's written in the chart

:crazy:

 

With all due respect wtf are you talking about. Are you telling me you can't hear the piano playing behind Brent's solo??

And "Trust you, it's written in the chart". There are no charts. They're not reading, they're not even using a skeletal number chart. They're just playing "head" arrangements. They know Workin' Man Blues by heart. When Vince sits in to play Liza Jane, he doesn't hand out staff paper. They've all known the song from hearing it, and they're jamming.

If it isn't obvious, these are friends of mine, close friends I've played and hung out with for nearly 40 years. Brent would not be happy if Hobbs "played Air Piano" during his solos.

 

^ ^ ^

WORD

 

When players work this particular genre for years, "head" arrangements are a given. I've done country gigs all over the map, and the above is pretty standard. When a band does a handful of new, top-forty songs I may write changes on a 3x5 card for a couple tunes; but going to manuscript is pretty rare. Different story if I get a call for piano at a private function though: I show up armed to the teeth with a bag of fakebooks.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I could barely hear the piano in the videos. But:

 

1. You seem to be playing high on the keyboard, while the guitar player is staying in the midrange. That would give your notes more prominence.

2. The general problem sounds like something that should be worked out in rehearsals. Try out different things and see how they sound. Would some casual rehearsals with just the two of you clear the air and let you experiment with different versions?

3. Everybody sounds a little busy in the videos, to me, including the drummer. A busy drummer can create confusion, since players may feel the need to be equally busy, with the result being just too many notes in the air.

 

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What the hell Steve? Do I have to describe and define every fucking thing to you? And why do you have a hair up your ass over me? I wasn't talking directly to you in the first place. Of course I can hear the piano but he's backed way off in the mix. Is that him doing it directly or was that done by the soundman?

 

In the chart, head chart. Same thing ok? Somewhere along the line whether at a rehearsal, at a gig, whatever the tune was played where Hobbs took the licks after the steel solo and Brent backs off. Pure speculation, they talked afterward and said that sounds cool, lets do that. Do I know that's exactly how it happened, hell no but it's now "in the chart" as in part of the arrangement. You're saying this is the one and only time they did it that way? Yeah maybe, good things can come out of free jams but it looks to me like Brent knew ahead of time to back off so that tells me he knew the piano part was coming therefore it's "in the chart".

 

And by the way with all due respect, bite me.

 

Bob

 

 

Hammond SK1, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
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Steve, I appreciate a session player like yourself gracing this forum.. trust me. I am likely older than you.. and did session work back in the early 1970' - 1990 in NYC.. so I am roughly in your world.. of course that was on bass not keys. I am sure I could hang with you on bass, now or in any time period.

That, out of the way ( so we are seeing eyeball to eyeball -).

 

Steve N: I said earlier, you are top tier player of Country music... you may have forgotten what it is like to play with far less experienced players, if you EVER did. For whatever reasons, I DO play with lesser players all the time now. It is a whole other world, my friend***, The advice you give is idealized advice. It is picture perfect advice ( and we all ought to learn from your wise words) IF, you are playing with cats who can play at a high level of expertise. That video we heard, is decidedly not that. Sorry OP, you have been quite modest about it. My sincere apology for this blunt statement.

Steve and I are differing about advising you!

Another poster here rightly commented on your drummer over playing. Drums over playing, will ruin, any possibility of collaborating in a sensitive manner with the guitar player. I think the guitarist in your situation must be, must be, " respected" - not merely his age, but his playing. That is how I ( a very experienced player in many genre's ) would handle your gig.

With genuine respect, Mr Nathan, I differ with you.

Steve, That gig, on the video(s) is a far far different environment than the gigs you are blessed and deserve to do.

Plus the acoustics on the video were less than ideal, an understatement . When acoustics are like that.."too live", it takes a great deal of control to deal with that factor alone.. and I tend to play LESS in a bad acoustical environment.. for obvious reasons... the live ness of the stage causes ones sound to reverberate in an unwanted fashion.. boils down to MORE UNWANTED and UNCONTROLLED sound emanating from the stage.

A studio is usually a close to perfect environment.

It is usually a perfect or close to perfect groove

perfect sound

great collaboration potential

NOT so with 75% of the players/ gigs, in this world!!

So again. play less,

rehearse to find what sounds you can make that stay out of the way of guitarist who is the most experienced in that band.

Guitarist for better or for worse is the elephant in the room, he must be effectively and musically dealt with. Play to him. He is the cat you most want to be in harmony with.

Another poster here, made excellent suggestions, a few threads up from mine, on rehearsing, and the range you play in, etc.

 

Steve, I would love to learn about Country music playing from you.. I am sorry I have made these distinctions, that run counter to your advice. None of this changes your stature as a top tier Country player. WHat is the differnce between Country Western and just Country music?

 

 

*** ( I cannot tell you how much I miss playing with some of the bad boys in NYC.. I am in S Cal now... and NYC, Phila, DC, New Orleans... generally speaking, East Coast players play rhythm "better", fatter, more groove oriented, as far as I am concerned- only exception- session players from Los Angeles )

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Understand some of your points, Tee - if we were comparing the world of the studio to that of the stage, but Steve posted live performances. Granted, the quality of the sound in a venue is important, and it is challenging when we end up in a sub-par, audio environment; but based on my experience Steve's response was accurate.

Live, I've played mostly country for the past twenty years: tiny clubs to festival stages; Nashville showcases to loose, jam-oriented nights in eastern Colorado; keyboard cabinet as PA to world-class sound systems. Worked with players who humbled me ( sometimes the keyboard player in another band on the same bill), and have done my share of time trying to be patient with sloppy players.

 

Throughout all of that 'head' arrangements have been a constant. And in more than a few instances I've seen last-minute sit-ins on gigs that were high profile. And sometimes even with a great system you get a mediocre engineer, or something 'blows up' with the sound. So when the sound is rough, I just have to listen a bit harder; but I try to play consistently, no matter what. It's like being stuck in the weeds when the sound is FUBAR; not fun, but sometimes you just have to play the hand you're dealt.

 

 

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Add me to the list of folks who won't bother to play air piano (unless that's expressly what the gig is, but they nobody would hire me for that anyway.)

 

Horn players frequently sit out long sections of songs. Do they play "air horn"? Hell no. Sometimes they do the funky dance, and I won't be doing that, of course. But in any case, if my part is to not play, that's what I do: I do not play. I sit attentive, enjoying, smiling, maybe nodding my head or moving my body to the beat, ready to come in.

 

I remember someone here advising to at least twiddle some knob or something to appear busy. I didn't agree with it then and I still don't.

 

Of course, if I was in a band with a leader and the leader wanted air-piano, I wouldn't fuss, I'd comply.

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