if I didn't love the sounds in my MOX8......

[EscapeRocks]

...I'd throw the thing out the window.

 

Seriously, even after having it for a couple years now, programming and navigating the "menus" is still the cryptic mess that Yamaha is known for. (who remembers the MEP4, REV7, etc..?)

 

I know how to get to things, but often hit roadblock. The interface is so counter-intuitive.

 

yeah, I know, Motif has the big screen, but it also has the $$$$ and weight. So I deal with it.

 

Just had to vent a little as I've been working hard to setup things for some shows. Even my lowly M50-61 has a no-brainer interface. Oh well....

 

back to work...

 

[/rant]

[GDP]

My old Motif ES drove me nuts as well. Isn't there a software editor to use for organizing sets? Seems I used one for that purpose.

[EscapeRocks]

My old Motif ES drove me nuts as well. Isn't there a software editor to use for organizing sets? Seems I used one for that purpose.

 

Yes, I use Melas' software to organize and name things. However, I'm creating new performances and masters, adjusting controllers, volumes, EFX, etc.....

 

 

[midinut]

Might i offer that you consider HALion Sonic 2 + laptop to replace MOX

Many people say its the Motif Sound Set, same sound design team i think.

Ive got HS SE that came with Cubase 7 and i like it a lot. I also have a Motif ES6. I have ordered HS2 and it should be here next week. If i like it, and think it can handle the job, then out goes the Motif. If not, I'm considering the MOX8 myself.

[MIDI2XS]

...I'd throw the thing out the window.

 

Seriously, even after having it for a couple years now, programming and navigating the "menus" is still the cryptic mess that Yamaha is known for. (who remembers the MEP4, REV7, etc..?)

I still have an MEP4. It's a very useful device, but programming it in hex isn't exactly user friendly.

 

 

...I know how to get to things, but often hit roadblock. The interface is so counter-intuitive.

 

yeah, I know, Motif has the big screen, but it also has the $$$$ and weight. So I deal with it.

Have you tried Yamaha's own editors? You can download them (and other goodies for the MOX) here.

[Mr. Nightime]

The architecture is the very reason that when the time came I bought the MM8 instead of the MOX8. I've tried them out in the store a couple times, an at first touch I could not figure out how to make it play just a simple AP sound. Even after rebooting the beast, it was on some hit one note and get a whole bunch of crap out of it mode.

 

I know the MM8 is not the best that Yamaha has, but at least I can get to the sounds I want without a master's degree.

[AnotherScott]

Even after rebooting the beast, it was on some hit one note and get a whole bunch of crap out of it mode.

Yes, I am amazed that that is the default boot scenario of the MOX8. I got it home, turned it on, hit a key, and heard that atrocious noise, didn't know yet what button would turn it off, so pulled the plug.

 

Okay, if you do a certain style of music and it's the groove you're looking for, maybe you won't think it's an atrocious noise. But really, what are the odds that anyone wants to hear that when they turn the unit on? I guess Yamaha wanted to show you "hey, look what this can do" but it is really terribly annoying, and you actually have to learn a fair bit about the keyboard in order to get it to stop defaulting to that every time you turn it on. God forbid you throw the board up on its stand and power it up at a gig, then walk away, and someone else hits a key to soundcheck it...

 

No board should ever default to continuing to play after you let go of the keys.

 

My initial experience with the MOX8 was similar to one of walking up to a beautiful girl who promptly farts. Luckily, I got past it!

 

Anyway, Mr. Nightime, next time you come across a MOX and reboot it to try to get it into a simple "just play me" state, what you have to know is that, before you strike any keys, press the Voice button. From there, you can play and explore in peace. And yes, that will start you with a simple AP sound.

[BernMeister]

Even after rebooting the beast, it was on some hit one note and get a whole bunch of crap out of it mode.

...next time you come across a MOX and reboot it to try to get it into a simple "just play me" state, what you have to know is that, before you strike any keys, press the Voice button. From there, you can play and explore in peace. And yes, that will start you with a simple AP sound.

If it's anything like the original MO8, you can set its Power on mode in "Utility" so that it always boots up in voice mode (or any other mode of your choice).

[allan_evett]

I had a love / hate relationship with the Motif for the same reason. And the MOX's have a reduced interface, which can mess with the mind further. The S-series was a little more manageable, though the first generation of the new CP's put an unusual twist on the concept of interface.

While Master Mode in the Motif is very useful (and not hard to learn), the way in which particular functions - ones normally contained within a Korg Combination, Roland Performance, or Kurzweil Setup - are split among Performance, Song, and Master mode can be confusing; certainly makes for more jumping around the interface. I noticed that Roland is starting to do something similar though: my JP50 has some functions unnecessarily divided up between Live Set and Registration modes that has induced a few episodes of head scratching. Perhaps one of the Motif or CP5 designers jumped ship and landed on the new Jupiter design team .

 

Hopefully the CP4 interface is the start of a new era. I've seen that the interface on the S90XS has several helpful features - ones that point to what more fully resulted with the CP4.

[AnotherScott]

If it's anything like the original MO8, you can set its Power on mode in "Utility" so that it always boots up in voice mode (or any other mode of your choice).

Yes, that works. I wouldn't do that when trying one out in a store though. Though now that I think about it, you might be doing them a favor!

 

But that gets back to what I said about having to learn a fair bit about the board, in order to solve the problem of triggering a perpetual sequence if you hit a key right after you turn it on. Setting the power-on mode in the utility section is not something you're likely to come across in your first hour with the board. It's on page 56 of the owner's manual, and even then, you'd have to understand the issue and the board well enough to realize that changing the power-on mode is in fact one of the possible ways to fix the problem. Other ways could be to edit the default Performance to turn Arp off, or to put a different patch entirely in the default Performance slot. But none of this is likely to be immediately obvious and simple to a new user.

[WesG]

Yamaha really DOES need to work on UI. I drove to the city in August thinking I was going to buy one. When it took me 20 minutes to get a piano sound out of it, I realized it was not suitable for me as a performance rig. Too bad, it sounds great in the demos I've heard.

 

I bought a VR-09 that day, though -- the UI completely sold me. It's obviously a board for a different application, but between it and my ROMpler I can get away without a Motif-type package. For now.

[David Emm]

Its puzzling that Yamaha has never figured out how near-hostile their OSs can be. Its as if some companies manufacture what the designers like instead of what musicians and engineers really use. They don't seem to do beta tests with real-world players. Yamaha misses the mark on user-friendliness all the time. That's a shame, because the sound quality is superior and rather like their grand pianos. There's a certain, subtle high-end sheen they do well. However, as much as I loved the SY85, that OS gave me nannite brain crabs. I prefer Apple and Korg because you can generally get rolling readily. I have stuff to DO! Now if they re-released the Fs1r synth with a rational GUI/editor, I'd be all over that. Its a dream synth that didn't get the brighter day it deserved.

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

Yamaha really DOES need to work on UI. I drove to the city in August thinking I was going to buy one. When it took me 20 minutes to get a piano sound out of it, I realized it was not suitable for me as a performance rig. Too bad, it sounds great in the demos I've heard.

Part of it is the UI, but a lot of it is also the manuals. There are definitely some bass-akward aspects to the UI, but I found that an awful lot of it made a lot of sense once I understood it, it just wasn't well presented in the manuals.

 

As for taking 20 minutes to get a piano sound out of it, well, as I said, all you had to do was hit the Voice button, the default voice is piano. So there's an example where it's not difficult at all, and is actually even logical, it's just not immediately obvious. But Yamaha shoots themselves here because, as demonstrated above, if you're in the showroom and lost on the board and just re-boot it, nearly 100% of people would be perfectly happy to hear piano at that point, and one in a million people want to hear it auto-play a hip-hop sequence or whatever it is, with no obvious way to even shut it off. Still, Yamaha is the biggest seller. But I can't help but think their sales would be even greater if their boards didn't annoy people who tried them out in stores. Maybe they have learned something, though, since the CP5 has given way to the much more showroom-friendly CP4.

[Josh Paxton]

Maybe they have learned something, though, since the CP5 has given way to the much more showroom-friendly CP4.

 

Yes, they do seem to have gotten the message that if your keyboard requires hastily-retrofitted cardboard overlays to show potential customers how to scroll through the presets, you have a serious problem.

 

I may have mentioned this before, but I was among those who couldn't figure out how to scroll through the presets the first time I tried a CP5 in a store. The sales guy said "Yeah, this is tricky," and showed me how -- or at least, he thought he did. Only after I bought one and dug into it did I realize that what he was doing was not, in fact, scrolling through the presets; rather, it was changing which waveform was used in the first preset. Getting to that level of editing was more intuitive than simply changing to a different patch. And this was the head of the keyboard department at the flagship store of a major retailer, not some 12-year-old at the local GC.

 

But I'm impressed that they seem to have listened. And I'm impressed enough by what I've heard and read on here that I'm taking a little road trip on Monday to go audition one.

[AnotherScott]

Yes, they do seem to have gotten the message that if your keyboard requires hastily-retrofitted cardboard overlays to show potential customers how to scroll through the presets, you have a serious problem.

I remember seeing that overlay... and it didn't work! Because, depending on what state the last person who played it left it in, the instructions on the card may or may not have been correct. So the key was that you had to reboot the keyboard before following the instructions on the card. Though of course it didn't say that (at least as far as I saw). So just walking over to it, and following the instructions on the card, could easily create at least as frustrating a situation as if the card weren't there at all!

[Synthoid]

Its puzzling that Yamaha has never figured out how near-hostile their OSs can be. Its as if some companies manufacture what the designers like instead of what musicians and engineers really use. They don't seem to do beta tests with real-world players. Yamaha misses the mark on user-friendliness all the time.

 

+1

 

Maybe if they paid more attention to forums like this, they would learn a few things!

 

 

[allan_evett]

Its puzzling that Yamaha has never figured out how near-hostile their OSs can be. Its as if some companies manufacture what the designers like instead of what musicians and engineers really use. They don't seem to do beta tests with real-world players. Yamaha misses the mark on user-friendliness all the time.

 

+1

 

Maybe if they paid more attention to forums like this, they would learn a few things!

 

 

Indeed.... In the meantime, the manuals should have the following disclaimer:

" Written by engineers, for engineers "

[Synthoid]

[EscapeRocks]

Well after an all night reprogramming session Friday night, which nearly caused me to beg for Xanax, I gigged with my new setup last night. PX350, and MOX8.

 

One thing I learned (well two really counting the PX350)

 

1. The PX350 sounded fantastic in the live setting. The resonance from the on board speakers was so very cool, and no issues having the speakers on and running to FOH.

 

2. Back the topic of MOX8... I really do not like using it has a slave board. While I got the basics all sorted out to work for my show, what a royal pain in the ass.

 

As many or some of you know, they way to be able to have different parts be controlled by different controllers, which in my case means from my PX350, or the MOX8 keys itself, is to use Song/Mixing mode.

 

After bashing my head against the wall several times as outline in my OP, I at least got it down to where I could assign the various sounds to different parts, and assign receive channels.

 

Of course finally assigning them to Masters created a whole set of unique problems there were so unintuitive to "fix" as to be stupid.

 

Remember, I have a few years on this board, and love the sounds. Reading Motifator, and here, I knew that I could use it as a sound engine as well...little did I know what this entailed until I dived into it.

 

One problem I still have:

 

On many songs, I use sounds triggered from my PX, then another sound played from the MOX directly.

I got this figured out.

 

I use my PX to transmit on channel 1.

I have set the MOX's basic MIDI receive channel to 2, and then adjust parts to receive on 1 or 2 based on which board I play the sound from.

 

Now my problem, consternation: for the life of me I can't figure out how to not have the MOX respond to control inputs from the PX, such as sustain on all sounds regardless of MOX receive channel.

 

So, even if I'm playing a sound from the MOX keys, hitting the PX sustain, sustains the MOX.

 

I know how to turn off control inputs for various parts of an MOX performance, but this doesn't work when playing from the PX.

 

So, anyone know which deep menu has this if it exists.

Again, PX is set to transmit channel 1. MOx8 receive channel 2

 

I verified this works, as when dialing up a basic voice or performance, nothing sounds when played from the PX. However, the MOX is still receiving and using sustain transmissions from my PX. What am I missing?

 

 

[Bosendorphen]

One of the great things about the Roland Fantom X series was the dedicated Piano button. Hit that and you're immediately in piano mode with easy to find controls and selection of APs and EPs. It would nice if Yamaha did the same thing. I've always appreciated the sounds on Yammy synths but have not got the time to wrap my brain around another OS that many find difficult.

 

I was able to get around and do quite a lot of sound editing and sequencing on my X7 without cracking the manual.

[ITGITC]

 

My initial experience with the MOX8 was similar to one of walking up to a beautiful girl who promptly farts. Luckily, I got past it!

 

This is one of the most constructive and informative threads I've read lately. Lots of great information here...

 

Yet somebody had to insert a fart joke.

 

I love this place.

 

ITGITC?

 

 

[dongna]

One of the great things about the Roland Fantom X series was the dedicated Piano button. Hit that and you're immediately in piano mode with easy to find controls and selection of APs and EPs. It would nice if Yamaha did the same thing.

Hmm... on my S90ES from almost anywhere I think it's two or three button presses at most to get to "piano mode", and four button presses to get to a particular piano sound.

 

With all due respect, I really don't understand people who expect to walk up to an instrument and immediately be able to find any particular thing they want. Most commonly used things are pretty accessible on any modern keyboard... couple key presses at most. You just have to learn what they are, and once that's done there's no issue.

[Sam Mullins]

 

As many or some of you know, they way to be able to have different parts be controlled by different controllers, which in my case means from my PX350, or the MOX8 keys itself, is to use Song/Mixing mode.

 

After bashing my head against the wall several times as outline in my OP, I at least got it down to where I could assign the various sounds to different parts, and assign receive channels.

 

Of course finally assigning them to Masters created a whole set of unique problems there were so unintuitive to "fix" as to be stupid.

 

Remember, I have a few years on this board, and love the sounds. Reading Motifator, and here, I knew that I could use it as a sound engine as well...little did I know what this entailed until I dived into it.

 

One problem I still have:

 

On many songs, I use sounds triggered from my PX, then another sound played from the MOX directly.

I got this figured out.

 

I use my PX to transmit on channel 1.

I have set the MOX's basic MIDI receive channel to 2, and then adjust parts to receive on 1 or 2 based on which board I play the sound from.

 

Now my problem, consternation: for the life of me I can't figure out how to not have the MOX respond to control inputs from the PX, such as sustain on all sounds regardless of MOX receive channel.

 

So, even if I'm playing a sound from the MOX keys, hitting the PX sustain, sustains the MOX.

 

I know how to turn off control inputs for various parts of an MOX performance, but this doesn't work when playing from the PX.

 

So, anyone know which deep menu has this if it exists.

Again, PX is set to transmit channel 1. MOx8 receive channel 2

 

I verified this works, as when dialing up a basic voice or performance, nothing sounds when played from the PX. However, the MOX is still receiving and using sustain transmissions from my PX. What am I missing?

 

 

I'm not aware that you can do this in Voice/Performance mode. For this kind of thing, I use Song/Mixing mode inside a Master slot. In that mode, the individual channel control messages can be enabled/disabled by going to the following page: Song->Mixing->Edit->F5(RCV SW)

[Bosendorphen]

One of the great things about the Roland Fantom X series was the dedicated Piano button. Hit that and you're immediately in piano mode with easy to find controls and selection of APs and EPs. It would nice if Yamaha did the same thing.

Hmm... on my S90ES from almost anywhere I think it's two or three button presses at most to get to "piano mode", and four button presses to get to a particular piano sound.

 

With all due respect, I really don't understand people who expect to walk up to an instrument and immediately be able to find any particular thing they want. Most commonly used things are pretty accessible on any modern keyboard... couple key presses at most. You just have to learn what they are, and once that's done there's no issue.

 

That's true but I think in the heat of the moment at a gig or if you just want to keep things simple when performing, that dedicated button would come in handy. I don't play live with my X7 and have set up my other gear for (relatively) easy access to the sounds I need. But if I ever did take the Fantom I might make use of that mode on occasion.

[EscapeRocks]

For this kind of thing, I use Song/Mixing mode inside a Master slot. In that mode, the individual channel control messages can be enabled/disabled by going to the following page: Song->Mixing->Edit->F5(RCV SW)

 

Thanks Sam, I know I overlooked that after my eyes grew weary

I will try it tonight when I am home. Appreciate it.

[Synthoid]

My initial experience with the MOX8 was similar to one of walking up to a beautiful girl who promptly farts. Luckily, I got past it!

 

somebody had to insert a fart joke.

 

I love this place.

 

And I'm sitting here in the library reading this, trying not to laugh!

 

 

[Sam Mullins]

For this kind of thing, I use Song/Mixing mode inside a Master slot. In that mode, the individual channel control messages can be enabled/disabled by going to the following page: Song->Mixing->Edit->F5(RCV SW)

 

Thanks Sam, I know I overlooked that after my eyes grew weary

I will try it tonight when I am home. Appreciate it.

 

Yeah..easy to forget this stuff. I typically only do this kind of thing once every couple month (when we are learning some new songs)...and I always forget the "mixing" key to get where I want to do the real work. That's because I had an S90ES for years and it combined the song/mixing thing into a multi (because it doesn't have a sequencer.) As I stated in other threads, I alternate between being frustrated by the Yamaha motif interface and grateful that I get exact control of almost everything (a good example being your controller scenario above.)

[MikeT156]

We all agree that the Yamaha UI are a bear. Yamaha has improved them since I first bought my ES8. I primarily used it for piano and other B&B sounds when I was just playing it for fun in my music room. When I decided to start looking for solo gigs again to supplement my lame income, I certainly pulled my hair out trying to use the sequencer for my songs live, finding and loading other sampled sounds that did not come in the factory ROM, and adding in sound effects that I would load with my songs and sets. I worked on that ES8 daily for months. It took me that long to find out how to pull it all together. As far as using a second board through Midi, I found it too time consuming to set it up for different songs and decided to keep the Motif and my Alesis ION independent of each other. The KISS principal worked great for me and I saved myself a lot of time that was better spent practicing to keep my chops up, learning parts of songs to record, mixing my songs so they sounded convincing, etc.

 

If you have to spend more time doing a set up than playing, its time to go to Plan B.

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Mike T.

[Synthoid]

you have to spend more time doing a set up than playing.

 

That should be Yamaha's slogan.

 

 

[DanS]

I picked up a PX-5S a few weeks ago, I'll be dumping my S70XS shortly. Time to lighten up & simplify.