Yamaha CP4 - first impressions

[Dave Bryce]

What I am saying is.... out of 300 or so user sounds, can't we get a couple of usable organ patches??

There are 32 organ programs in the CP4. Some of them are certainly usable if you don't carry a dedicated organ keyboard and don't mind not having things like drawbars and other organ-based real time controls.

 

It's a bit odd playing them on a wooden graded hammer action keybed, of course....but that's to be expected with any weighted hammer action 88.

 

dB

[timwat]

LX88 - I've got a CP4, will be gigging it every night this weekend (Thur, Fri, Sat, Sun). I may be less discriminating than others here, but I don't find all the organ patches "unusable". I would never mistake it for a clone, and wouldn't think about using it for an exposed role. But for that "one" request to sit an organ in the back of a mix, yeah, there's one or two that might work - and of course if anyone was going to go overkill and Vent it, well, there you go.

 

But it does sound a little malcontent to call out the organ sounds on a digital piano, especially since the calling card on this one is "CP5 pianos at 30 lbs.". I get where you're coming from, but I was looking for a piano-only solution and I'm delighted with the CP4 so far.

 

FWIW, I find the UI intuitive and cake. I haven't even looked at the additional documentation (3 more manuals) on the CD. The acoustic bass patch in the splits is freaking lovely. Enough AP versions to work in just about any room, with any amplification. EPs seem to be intelligently sorted to add more bell to taste. I needed to dial down the default reverb preset a bit to get it out of the gymnasium, but that was quick, easy and painless. Also, I've never owned a real clavinet, but I find my only comparison (my Kronos) kills the CP4 in that regard. As well it probably should. But again, I don't personally ever see me using the CP4 for clavinet.

 

Seeing that post that the CP4 is "always" in Performance Mode was really, really helpful.

 

Tim

[Stokely]

Well, neither Sam Ash or Guitar Center near me have a CP4, and the salespeople had never heard of it. And stores wonder why people buy online.

 

This is Orlando, which while not humongous is an actual city. I guess this board is somewhat of a niche thing.

[mate stubb]

If you are too chintzy to carry an organ, you shouldn't be disappointed that a piano doesn't sound like one.

[timwat]

Well, neither Sam Ash or Guitar Center near me have a CP4, and the salespeople had never heard of it. And stores wonder why people buy online.

 

This is Orlando, which while not humongous is an actual city. I guess this board is somewhat of a niche thing.

 

I think the real niche thing is KB players who stay up to date on product. This forum takes it seriously - sometimes WAY too seriously ("Jane, you ignorant slut...") - but most KB players I run across on gigs or in town? Totally, blissfully unaware that anything exists besides a Motif or Electro through a KC300.

 

Don't you guys find that as well?

[FJR]

Well, neither Sam Ash or Guitar Center near me have a CP4, and the salespeople had never heard of it. And stores wonder why people buy online.

 

This is Orlando, which while not humongous is an actual city. I guess this board is somewhat of a niche thing.

 

I think the real niche thing is KB players who stay up to date on product. This forum takes it seriously - sometimes WAY too seriously ("Jane, you ignorant slut...") - but most KB players I run across on gigs or in town? Totally, blissfully unaware that anything exists besides a Motif or Electro through a KC300.

 

Don't you guys find that as well?

 

 

One keyboard player at a festival this summer, was complimenting me on the sound of my motif, and was asking all sorts of questions about it (like where can you buy one?)?? :idk

[BradD]

You're not alone. I asked the guys at the local GC if they would be getting one in and the genius working there said "we find that guys are moving away from stage pianos and using more workstations these days." That's funny because my experience is that people are largely moving away from workstations, but having an intelligent conversation with anyone who works at GC is an unlikely proposition at best.

[Stokely]

My favorite was the Sam Ash sales guy who handled the stage/home piano section who "corrected" me when I asked about the CP4: "Roland has far better action than any Yamaha" *points at a bunch of Roland digital pianos*. Rather than point out he's talking about a very subjective thing, I responded with "Well, I did like the Rd 700NX that I tried at a different store." He had never heard of the 700NX.

[orangefunk]

Does the CP4 have aftertouch? I always liked using aftertouch for vibrato on double bass splits... not a deal-breaker for sure but just asking...

[SteinwayB]

I spent a couple hours at a Guitar Center last week playing the CP 4. I own the original Nord piano and am very familiar with its sound. I compared the CP 4 with a Nord

Electra loaded with the large Steinway sound which is my preferred sound. I controlled the Electra via midi from the CP 4 keyboard. I have been playing digital pianos since the Ensoniq mirage/ESQ1 era including Kurzweil K1000, Gigasampler PMI Bosendorfer, Kawai MP 9000, Ivory 1, Ivory 2, and currently Nord piano. There clearly has been an evolution in sound but I still find even the best digital piano to be "fingernails on a chalk board". Having said that, I definitely found the acoustic pianos on the CP4 to be superior to the Nord piano but not by a huge margin. The Rhoades sound on CP 4 was excellent, at least as good as the Nord, and the clavinet sounds were not quite as good as the Nord. I found the synthesizer sounds to be quite mediocre but that's to be expected on a stage piano. The sampled bass was very nice, but not nearly as good as Larry Seyer Giga bass. So the bottom line is that the CP 4 piano sounds are better (more realistic and playable) than the Nord piano, and I would not hesitate to buy the CP4 now if I didn't already own the Nord, but the AP sounds are not a jaw dropping OMG Holey Grail improvement. I hope this helps.

[Moon Zero Two]

Glad to see Timwat agrees - I love the acoustic bass sound in this. I think the piano sounds very good and it has a couple of nice layered pads. I find the UI easy enough - the transpose buttons got a work out at the gig, so did the eq sliders. I am never going to be a power user and won't be using anything beyond the EPs at jams or on gigs, so I haven't tried out the organs or clavs or guitars, but I don't need them.

 

All in all I would say I am set for while in the stage piano department. Now I can spend more time at home messing with my Kronos...

[timwat]

Does the CP4 have aftertouch? I always liked using aftertouch for vibrato on double bass splits... not a deal-breaker for sure but just asking...

 

I don't think so. Playing the upright bass in the LH, I find myself instinctively digging in to get some vibrato...but alas....

 

Yeah Moon Zero Two - that sucker just sits soooo nice, not too boomy, not too shrill or fake...just enough "finger" noise...

 

I am not a big fan of the default string sound they layer in the factory performances, am fiddling with the "atmosphere" pad and some of those other pads instead.

[LX88]

Nice to hear a good report on the Rhodes. That is one of the things I was hoping for - good EP's from a Yamaha under 40 lbs, instead of lugging around an 88 Motif, CP-5 or S90 etc.

[Dana.]

I think the real niche thing is KB players who stay up to date on product digital pianos and clonewheel organs. This forum takes it seriously - sometimes WAY too seriously ("Jane, you ignorant slut...") - but most KB players I run across on gigs or in town? Totally, blissfully unaware that anything exists besides a Motif or Electro through a KC300.

 

Don't you guys find that as well?

"Fixed" because I think a distinction needs to be made. I find that there are a LOT fewer people current with digital pianos and clonewheel organs than synths and workstations.

 

With regard to bitching and moaning about clueless/difficult salespeople and not being able to find new products in stores, I think it's worth it to order something online, try it, and if you don't like it, return it or sell it on Craigslist or eBay. Whatever fees you incur are preferable to the hassle we've all endured.

[mate stubb]

I think the real niche thing is KB players who stay up to date on product. This forum takes it seriously - sometimes WAY too seriously

 

I'd disagree. This is the premier forum on the webz for the gigging keyboardist IMO. Who will take it seriously if not us?

[Dave Bryce]

I think the real niche thing is KB players who stay up to date on product. This forum takes it seriously - sometimes WAY too seriously

 

I'd disagree. This is the premier forum on the webz for the gigging keyboardist IMO. Who will take it seriously if not us?

What Moe said.

 

dB

[LX88]

As far as being to too chintzy ( gee... thanks) to carry an organ it's not so much that as much as there is not enough room on some stages, or space in certain small studios etc. to carry multiple boards. Even in my house there is generally not enough room for two boards also.

 

But I figure, if you are going to put 32 different sounds in there, at least some of them might be usable in situations where one board is all there is room for.

 

If people didn't use "pianos" to get organ sounds, we would not have boards like the Nord Stage or the various Motifs, which have organs but also have weighted action.

 

The other reason I am curious about the organ sounds is that in the past I have used a "piano" that also has organ sounds as a lower manual for organ -as I did many times with my Yamaha P-200 back in the day. It doesn't bother me to play bass on weighted action.

 

Ocassionally too, I like to use a lower manual that is not affected by an expression pedal.

 

I guess I will find out sooner or later how the organs sound on the CP-4.

[Dave Bryce]

I found the synthesizer sounds to be quite mediocre but that's to be expected on a stage piano.

Maybe on the average stage piano...but this one has a four pole low pass resonance filter and ADR envelope per program. I found the synths to be much better than the average stage piano, many of which just have samples of filtered sounds.

 

dB

[Dave Ferris]

I definitely found the acoustic pianos on the CP4 to be superior to the Nord piano but not by a huge margin.

 

So the bottom line is that the CP 4 piano sounds are better (more realistic and playable) than the Nord piano, and I would not hesitate to buy the CP4 now if I didn't already own the Nord, but the AP sounds are not a jaw dropping OMG Holey Grail improvement. I hope this helps.

 

I've played the CP4 twice now, maybe an hour and fifteen minutes total. And have used both the NP88 & NP2 for a combined period of time of probably a tad over two years now. Before that I used the CP5 for a good 18 months straight.

 

I agree a lot with your observations. But while I wasn't able to A-B the sound of the NP2 & CP4, just the fact that the CP4 played so much more fluid and didn't thin on the top end, like unfortunately all the Nord samples do--this was a no-brainer for me as to which would work better in my playing context.

 

I think if you play triads in a more rock/pop context, the difference isn't so crucial to the player. But in jazz, where you're trying to articulate single note lines--where many of the notes can be at a higher rate of velocity, along with extreme complex fingerings, not to mention all this composed instantly on the fly no less--the action/ response, along with the sound where all the notes are even, is paramount.

 

A perfect example in this video where you can notice it around the 5:54 and 6:38-6:44 where I go up on a phrase in the higher registers on my solo.

[video:youtube]

 

The thing drops out, loses gas, thins out, no balls up there. Consequently I often go to two handed unisons to try and compensate and get a fuller sound. This sh*t has driven me crazy with the Nord the last 2 years !!! Yamahas are always even in that respect.

 

I can't remember the exact sample I was using but pretty sure it either the XL Fazioli or XL Bright Grand. It's a shame because, yes, it sounds very detailed and realistic in other registers, and for other types of playing it really works great.

 

But again, the CP4 would be a significant improvement for me no doubt about it.

 

[timwat]

 

I'd disagree. This is the premier forum on the webz for the gigging keyboardist IMO. Who will take it seriously if not us?

 

Just talking about the bouts of nastiness when things have gotten personal with ad hominem, character assassination, etc.

[dazzjazz]

I found the synthesizer sounds to be quite mediocre but that's to be expected on a stage piano.

Maybe on the average stage piano...but this one has a four pole low pass resonance filter and ADR envelope per program. I found the synths to be much better than the average stage piano, many of which just have samples of filtered sounds.

 

dB

 

I'm really impressed with the resonant filter too. Given the breadth of the synth tones on this stage piano, you could pretty much be guaranteed of being able to cook up a LOT of very useable patches.

[1203]

@Dave Ferris: Great playing!!!

[orangefunk]

The Roland RD700GX had a pretty nifty filter too.... shame the stock material wasn't up to scratch but the SRX cards had some nice sounds.

 

Oh yeah... Dave Ferris... the man can make anything sound good

[orangefunk]

Btw. Its interesting about the comparisons with the Nord Stage... I have to confess I love those pianos but share Dave's point about the thinness on top... so if the Yamaha is sounding in that direction, rather than the samples from the old P series pianos, I am going to be as happy as a clam...

[Dana.]

Who will take it seriously if not us?

I think the more important question is: does it need to be taken so seriously? At a certain point, debating all the minutiae is

 

[Tonysounds]

Funny....when a thread no longer interests me, I quit visiting it.

 

 

[DulceLabs.com]

Well, neither Sam Ash or Guitar Center near me have a CP4, and the salespeople had never heard of it. And stores wonder why people buy online.

 

This is Orlando, which while not humongous is an actual city. I guess this board is somewhat of a niche thing.

 

Hey Stokely - you may want to check out George's - I am pretty sure I saw one there.. can't remember if it was on I-Drive or the one near Winter Park though. I find them to be very helpful and knowledgeable.

[Skinny]

I think the more important question is: does it need to be taken so seriously? At a certain point, debating all the minutae is

 

 

minutiae

[Jazz+]

 

I think if you play triads in a more rock/pop context, the difference isn't so crucial to the player. But in jazz, where you're trying to articulate single note lines--where many of the notes can be at a higher rate of velocity, along with extreme complex fingerings, not to mention all this composed instantly on the fly no less--the action/ response, along with the sound where all the notes are even, is paramount.

....

The (Nord) drops out, loses gas, thins out, no balls up there...

 

That paragraph really sums it up for me for all the DPs I have played. I look forward to a clip of Dave playing a CP4 in a live setting.

[Dana.]

minutiae

Thanks for keeping an eye on the speling, Skiny.