Questions on Quality of SK1-88 Piano

[bryanstern]

I am primarily a piano player with little experience in digital keyboards and no experience with organs. Yet, I love the B3 sound and want to add it to my playing.

 

I have not had the opportunity to play the SK1-88 and have questions better answered by non-salespeople.

 

1. How is the piano sound, both in terms of the overall quality and the tonal quality (I don't enjoy overly bright pianos). I believe there is only one Acoustic Grand (mono and stereo) and one upright.

2. How is the keyboard feel? Is it merely ok/adequate or quite nice. I want something that inspires the piano player in me.

3. Should I consider a Stage Piano (like the Yamaha CP4) and add a Vent or Burn, knowing that if I really get into Organ I can add one later?

 

All help/advice is really appreciated.

[drawback]

You haven't indicated your budget, but given your criteria, I'd definitely steer you away from the SK1.

 

Instead, check out either a Nord Electro 3 HA, or Nord Stage2.

 

 

[bryanstern]

Thanks for the reply. I would rather keep budget to under $3000. Sale at Sweetwater this week puts Stage 2-88 at $3569 (15% off). So, maybe I can stretch budget.

[Dana.]

I have not had the opportunity to play the SK1-88 and have questions better answered by non-salespeople.

Has anyone played it? I haven't seen one at Sam Ash or GC here.

[bryanstern]

Sorry. GC has the sale.

[JMcS]

There is a video regarding the SK-1 88 on the Hammond US website. It is a Hammond EU video:

 

 

The narrator talks a little about the keybed.

 

There is a similar video for the SK-1 73:

 

[Dana.]

My point is that there probably aren't many people who have played the 88 because SA and GC don't have one on the floor.

[BernMeister]

I have not had the opportunity to play the SK1-88 and have questions better answered by non-salespeople.

Has anyone played it? I haven't seen one at Sam Ash or GC here.

I played it at Namm when it first came out. Nice feel for a full size (though, synth-weighted) piano action. The piano sound itself was nothing to write home about. But then, it's a niche clone product.

 

I agree with the others, if you want a synth-weighted action with a great piano sound (in a clone wheel soundset), your obvious choice is Nord.

[burningbusch]

I played either the 73 or 88 at NAMM. It will NOT inspire the piano player in you. The price tag is a rip when put up against any stage piano with a quality action. You could get the CP-4 and Roland VR-09 combo for about the same price. Or do the Hammond XK-1c for a bit more. Then you have the organ and piano keyboards separate, as they should be. If you don't get into the organ side of things, you can dump it but not compromise the piano at all.

 

Busch.

[DaBous]

I own an SK-1 88. I bought an open box one for a good price. The action is a bit more piano like than the 61 and 73 key versions. Keys are full size ( about half an inch longer ) and have more weight to them. They are still similar to waterfall as they push back against your fingers when you release. But if you prefer more weight to the keys than the Nord SW or Sk-1 73/61 you will like it. Takes getting used to though.

 

Hammond calls it a "compromise" action that can do both piano and

organ. I think it does what they say it does but I still use my Stage 2 when I am doing any serious piano playing.

 

It is better to have a separate weighted and waterfall action but it is nice for those times when you need a single tuck under your arm board that can do B3/AP/EP - like rehearsals, jam sessions, multiple band gigs etc. I haven't found anything else with 88 keys that fits that bill.....

[BernMeister]

...It is better to have a separate weighted and waterfall action but it is nice for those times when you need a single tuck under your arm board that can do B3/AP/EP. I haven't found anything else with 88 keys that fits that bill.....

I agree. However, personally, if it had quality ac/el piano on par or better than the Nords, I would have bought one there and then.

[DaBous]

...It is better to have a separate weighted and waterfall action but it is nice for those times when you need a single tuck under your arm board that can do B3/AP/EP. I haven't found anything else with 88 keys that fits that bill.....

I agree. However, personally, if it had quality ac/el piano on par or better than the Nords, I would have bought one there and then.

 

True enough. I was pleasantly suprised though how good the AP in the SK-1 can sound with a little tweaking. The default preset sounds a bit flat to me - but with a little tweaking of eq - especially in the mid-range - made a big difference. Cuts through nice in a band. I was not able to get a rhodes sound I liked out of it, but the wurly is excellent. Played around with the eq and amp models - added some overdrive ( which can be controlled using the expression pedal - nice feature ). Has a nice spank to it and is great for soloing. Anyway it is still a compromise.

 

OT - but if Nord ever puts the leslie sim from the C2D/Electro 4 into the next version of the Stage 2 - I will buy that and use it for everything. Hoping they will release that for Namm '14.....

 

 

[bryanstern]

Thank you everyone. Lots to think about. But, really helpful. Right now, after all your feedback leaning towards either the CP4 and Roland VR-09 (need to try one out) or the Nord Stage 2 (if I can get a great deal).

 

Once again, much thanks. Really helped.

[AnotherScott]

I played either the 73 or 88 at NAMM.

The 73 has the same action as the 61; the 88 is different.

 

But I agree, two keyboards is the way to go, and I think I can safely agree that your suggested combinations would be better than an SK1-88, even though I haven't played one!

 

How is the keyboard feel? Is it merely ok/adequate or quite nice. I want something that inspires the piano player in me.

No un/semi-weighted board will be great for piano. Some are better than others, but the best of them pretty much fall into the "merely ok/adequate" category compared to something with a real weighted action. But those weighted actions are severe compromises for organs. So you really are better off with one of each.

 

If you had to buy just one, since you are primarily a piano player, you'd probably be better off a weighted action that is at best adequate for organ (Nord Stage 2 76/88, Kurzweil 88) rather than an unweighted action that is at best adequate for piano. But it sounds like you'r enot tied to one, and your budget can handle it, so I'd say that the CP4+VR09 or other similar combination would be the better way to go, as Busch said.

[bryanstern]

Thanks AnotherScott and Busch. Which lower priced organ do you recommend?

VR09 looks cool, but I have read that it is very cheap looking/feeling. Anybody played one?

 

The Hammond XK-1c looks nice. I take that it is like an SK1-61 without only organ sounds. Is that true?

 

Anybody have thoughts on what combo would be best?

[stoken6]

I agree (again) with AnotherScott. It's going to be hard to find a single action to suit piano and organ (no matter what the manufacturers tell you).

 

The VR09 has a reportedly cheap-feeling keybed, but other reports also suggest its high trigger point works well for organ. I'd pair it with a DP: Casio PX5 is popular here, and has good controller features. You mention the CP4, which is very new - also consider Roland pianos, which are less bright than the Yammies (which you may prefer).

 

As you suggested, the Hammond XK1c is a step up from the VR09, but organ-only. That and a DP with controller facilities (PX5, CP4 etc.) is a nice rig.

 

For $3000 I think you can get PX5 + Hammond SK1, which has the advantage of a bit of piano on the organ board, plus a bit of organ on the piano board. So you have options for a one-board gig, or in case a board fails.

 

One more outside idea: Kurzweil Artis has a brand-new piano sample, plus adequate-to-decent organ modelling. It's a hammer-action 88. MIDI an unweighted board into it for organ and you're all set. (Make sure you're happy with the TP100 action in the Artis - it divides opinion!)

 

As usual, so much of this is a matter of taste (how long did the VR09 thread get), so do try out as much as you can for tone, action and weight.

 

Cheers. Mike.

[NeedMoreBass]

If you want a keybed that has a great piano feel it's hard to beat the Casio PX-5S. Much better than the Nord or Kurzweil keybed IMO. I use mine in conjunction with a Kronos 61 and have a very versatile and portable setup that sounds fantastic for pianos, EP's organ, synth, etc. $850 for the PX-5S(when on sale at Musicians Friend with 15% off) and $1750 for the original Kronos 61 brand new. $2600 total investment and well under your budget with $ left over to buy a Vent for a killer setup.

 

 

[Jim Alfredson]

A Hammond SK1 and Casio PX5s is what I use. Lightweight & great sound. Plus enough left over for some good monitors. Hard to go wrong with that combo.

 

In the interest of full disclosure, I am endorsed by both companies.

[NeedMoreBass]

A Hammond SK1 and Casio PX5s is what I use. Lightweight & great sound. Plus enough left over for some good monitors. Hard to go wrong with that combo.

 

In the interest of full disclosure, I am endorsed by both companies.

 

That's a killer setup no doubt. But the reason I would recommend the Kronos over the SK1 is because of the pianos. While I'm a big fan of the PX5S, I would label the pianos in it as very good, but not great. The Kronos pianos(and EP's) are much better and using the PX5S as a controller for the Kronos pianos is awesome. I got rid of my Kronos 88 and Kurz PC3K8 in favor of this setup. The SK1 obviously is a better organ, but the Kronos is no slouch, especially with a Vent. The Kronos also has better EP's than the PX5S or SK1 and not to mention everything else that the Kronos is capable of.

[Dana.]

If you want a keybed that has a great piano feel it's hard to beat the Casio PX-5S.

Not that hard. Yamaha CP4. It also has better pianos and finger to sound connection than the Kronos.

[NeedMoreBass]

If you want a keybed that has a great piano feel it's hard to beat the Casio PX-5S.

Not that hard. Yamaha CP4. It also has better pianos and finger to sound connection than the Kronos.

 

The finger to sound connection is greatly improved using the PX5S as a controller, the combo feels nothing like a PX5S or Kronos 88 on their own. And tweeking the Kronos pianos makes it even better. I'm not going to argue about which is better as I have not played a CP4 and I'm sure it is an outstanding keyboard based on what I've read, but I'd bet if you played the PX5S +Kronos combo you'd have a hard time disliking it.

 

 

[spazzkey]

if you can try any of these keyboards yourself, you'll be way ahead...

 

apart from the various opinions on sound and action quality expressed above, you may be hard pressed to find a more cost and weight effective solution than what Jim uses - with the px5s at 1k and the sk1 61 at 2k you end up with two dedicated boards for less than the price of a nord stage2 - and, for me critically, even though the ns2 organ sounds through my vent always get rave reviews, the hammond features real drawbars/sliders...something I find myself missing on the ns2...

 

My sk1-73 is on it's way - to go on top of my ns2 76 for now, 73 instead of 61 so I could take just the 73 if preferred - next step will be to replace the nord with the px5s...

[mountainjammer]

Anyone else had experience with the action of the 88 key sk1 yet? Is it materially different than the other sk-1s or other semi weighted's or is it mostly marketing phooey? And if a bit more weighted action, is there much of a detriment to organ playability? I'm not aware of another keyboard that is trying to bridge this gap with the keybed. If others, thanks for the input!

[DaBous]

I owned an SK-1 61 - which I sold to get the SK-1 88. So I am familiar with both. The action on the SK-1 88 is more waterfall than piano. It has springs which push back against your fingers which piano actions don't. The main difference is that the keys are about 3/4 of an inch longer and there is more resistance. I have no problems playing hammond stuff on it. For piano I find it is passable for rock / blues stuff. The heavier feel does help a little for piano. But I wouldn't want to use it for solo piano or anything where I need to play expressively. Hope that helps.....

 

 

 

[Brad Kaenel]

I played the SK1-88 at NAMM, last year. It has an action only an organist could love, IMHO, and I think that's the point -- Hammond built this keyboard for gigging organists who sometimes need to cover or comp on acoustic piano. It's a very springy, weighted-synth kind of feel, doesn't feel like an acoustic piano at all; certainly not in the league of the PX-5s, CP-4, et.al.

 

If you want one board to play both organ and piano, you will have to compromise on feel in one direction or the other. In the case of the SK1-88, it compromises in *both* directions, being neither a great organ keybed, nor a great piano keybed. But if you must use just one board, some players will prefer an action that's just "OK" for both organ and piano, rather than an action that is great for one, but poor for the other. I think that's the target Hammond was trying to hit with SK1-88.

[Aidan]

Brad is right on. I played the 88 SK at a Hammond show earlier this year. Just too many compromises all round. In your shoes, I would blow most of the budget on the best-feeling and sounding piano I could afford, then see what you have left. You may well have enough for a used SK1-63 (beginning to appear on eBay) or even a second-hand XK1 (the predecessor to the XK1c). Even the latter would be a solid intro to the B3 sound and feel.

[Dana.]

Does the Sk1-88 use a Fatar action? Is it the one used in the VMK-161 Organ Plus controller? Bleh.

[Aidan]

Almost certainly Fatar, don't know precisely which one.

[Brad Kaenel]

Does the Sk1-88 use a Fatar action? Is it the one used in the VMK-161 Organ Plus controller? Bleh.

 

Definitely not the Organ Plus keybed; SK1-88 has traditional lipped keys like a piano, not the waterfall keys that the VMK-161 has. I could be misremembering, but I recall asking Scott May that question at NAMM, and hearing that Hammond had either made the keybed themselves, or severely customized an OEM one.

 

Using the traditional lipped key shape seemed like an odd choice in this case, even though it was an 88 board. Even so, the keys are still very smooth and rounded, as if someone had taken a file to a regular set of piano keys and rubbed off all the sharp edges. Clearly they were trying mightily to create piano-shaped keys that were more comfortable for organ glisses and other moves. Me, I would have just used regular waterfall keys...

[DaBous]

The keybed in the SK-1 88 is made by Fatar - but was made specifically for Hammond. I doubt it is used in any other keyboard.