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Voltage Regulator / Electronics Question


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I have a Tripp Lite LCR2400 voltage regulator / power conditioner that I have run all of my gear from for seven years now. It will boost output voltage to a steady 120v if it hits 118.5v or below, and reduce to 120v if the supply exceeds 121.5v. I recently noticed that the input indicator displayed "LOW" and my studio receptacle was giving me 115v +/- (measured w/hand meter). So I measured the output put of the LCR and it was 126.4v! I tested the unit around the house and at other locations. Between 118 and 121 it reads Normal input voltage and does not change the voltage (per spec). If the voltage drops below 118 it will add 11v+. It doesn't stop at 120. At 118 I get 129.4! I had no way of checking what happens above 121. I contacted Tripp Lite technical support/customer service. After a few back/forth emails, they told me it was out of warranty and suggested "I swap it for a new one." I asked if it was worth repairing and they told me that they do not offer repair service on these units. They were also not interested in analyzing the defective unit to determine what went wrong. I asked them "How I can feel secure that a new unit won't provide too much voltage when they don't even care why this one went bad?" and got no response. I mentioned that I have suggested these units many times on forums over the years and that I believe good customer service (and reputation) would include return of the defective unit and at least an offer to purchase a factory reconditioned replacement. And that maybe I should have spent the extra money on the Furman. Their reply was that they don't sell the units, they don't repair them, they don't make the schematics available to the public, and here is a list of vendors that sell them.

 

Sure I got 7 years of service from this and it only cost about $240 US (now $260). It was a good value but I am not sure I should buy another or throw this away. So my questions for those who understand electronics are:

 

Would you think this might be a simple repair? A bad component on a circuit board?

 

Is it possible for something like this to exceed 130v output? Won't that much voltage damage gear?

 

Would you buy another one? (The Furman costs $1,700!!!!)

 

If not, shouldn't it be simple to turn it into a basic noise filtering surge suppressor power strip?

 

I love this thing. It ran our entire band and powered QSC PA! And now I have to wonder whether I should spend the money on a Furman. Some clubs definitely provide us with less than 110v, especially when the refrigerators kick on. And the catering hall dimmers make a lot of noise. Thanks for any helpful suggestions.

 

Mark

"Think Pink Floyd are whiny old men? No Problem. Turn em off and enjoy the Miley Cyrus remix featuring Pitbull." - Cygnus64

 

Life is shorter than you think...make it count.

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It may actually be acting normal. The way that unit works is with a multitap transformer to step the voltage up or down. So when it kicks over to another tap, it's not going to go to exactly 120v, depending on the voltage in, it will be whatever that tap corrects to.

 

Example: say it had a 110% tap that it used for any input between 105v to 115v, that would correct to a range of 115.5 to 126.5 over that range of input voltages. It would only be exactly 120 if the input voltage happened to be like 109v.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Wow, thanks JD! It would appear that Tripp Lite Technical Support team may not be very knowledgeable. So, with all the usual caveats, based on my description above you would assume nothing out of the ordinary and still use it?

 

BTW: The only other times I check measured was when it was good input voltage (120 +/- 1.5) or really poor 106-108 and I got a pure 120v. Thanks.

 

Mark

"Think Pink Floyd are whiny old men? No Problem. Turn em off and enjoy the Miley Cyrus remix featuring Pitbull." - Cygnus64

 

Life is shorter than you think...make it count.

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Well if it's good, then the unit will not be doing anything outside of having the usuall surge suppression and filters. You probably just got lucky when it was really bad that it happen to land right on 120.

 

I would go back to the specifications of the unit and see what they specify it should be - usually they will say that they will correct to within +/- some voltage. If it's outside of that, it IS possible that it could be switching to the wrong tap or something.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Your plain English description above sounds very much like their:

 

"Reliable transformer-based voltage correction circuits maintain 120V nominal output during voltage fluctuations between 89 and 147V. Three levels of voltage stabilization offer targeted response for over-voltages, under-voltages and severe brownouts."

 

And in the FAQs I found:

 

"The voltage regulation of the LCR2400 kicks in at different voltage points. The 1st boost sets at 114v and resets at 118v. The 2nd boost sets at 104v and resets at 107v. The 1st cut sets at 130v and resets at 127v. High line is set at 140v and resets at 137v.

 

The output voltage of the LCR2400 should remain at a nominal 120v."

 

Does this sound like there actually is something wrong? Thanks again for your patience.

 

Mark

"Think Pink Floyd are whiny old men? No Problem. Turn em off and enjoy the Miley Cyrus remix featuring Pitbull." - Cygnus64

 

Life is shorter than you think...make it count.

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For Live playing not studio

Because "nothing has happened" to my gear that I am aware of ( frequently heard among the majority of keyboard players who continue to "play the odds", doubting a long shot spike or brownout, and like their comfort zone of keeping that $250 to 500 or more dollars in their bank) after all these years, i tend to not go out and buy some protection. But when I see a thread like this, and think about the cost of my boards, i do wonder. But Senor Plain English JustDan, being as you are both en experienced player and into the electrical side of this... what advice would you give.. "do not sweat it, keep playing those odds.. or buy THIS or THAT??

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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I use one of these:

 

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=208

 

Never leave home without it

 

The LCR2400 appears to be the same but 2400W instead of 1200W (because I run the PA) and the "R" is for rack (3 spaces).

"Think Pink Floyd are whiny old men? No Problem. Turn em off and enjoy the Miley Cyrus remix featuring Pitbull." - Cygnus64

 

Life is shorter than you think...make it count.

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Be wary of the weight: LCR2400 is 27 pounds plus road case and the LC1200 is 9 pounds.

 

Oyarsa, How do you carry it to/from?

"Think Pink Floyd are whiny old men? No Problem. Turn em off and enjoy the Miley Cyrus remix featuring Pitbull." - Cygnus64

 

Life is shorter than you think...make it count.

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I use one of these:

 

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=208

 

Never leave home without it

I use the same one, except mine is white (although I wish it were black so that it would be more inconspicuous).

 

It may actually be acting normal. The way that unit works is with a multitap transformer to step the voltage up or down. So when it kicks over to another tap, it's not going to go to exactly 120v, depending on the voltage in, it will be whatever that tap corrects to.

 

Example: say it had a 110% tap that it used for any input between 105v to 115v, that would correct to a range of 115.5 to 126.5 over that range of input voltages. It would only be exactly 120 if the input voltage happened to be like 109v.

Dan is spot on. That is exactly how it works. So when it adjusts the chances of getting 120 are only if (as Dan said) the input voltage were something like 109. I'm not sure that the unit is actually defective since that is how the Tripplite is designed to work. I could be wrong but I think the Furman actually re-adjusts back to 120V when the input is low/high. This is probably why the Furman's price is so much higher.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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Oyarsa, How do you carry it to/from?

 

I have a smallish square suitcase that it goes in with pedals and cables. Everything is snug so nothing bangs around.

 

Oh, and I also velcroed a webbed nylon strap around it so cable fits coiled under it and it can be carried.

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Very cool. I'm starting to feel a little smarter about still using it. Thanks for more lay-speak, DD.

 

The difference between $260 (27 lbs) and $1,725 (39 lbs) is a lot. But I didn't expect to completely give up the customer service :-)

 

There have been gigs where digital guitar amps were acting funky and my laptop, keys, and PA were functioning OK. We were running everything on a farm with 150 feet of orange cord from the barn. I'm sure we were lucky if we got 100v before we turned on the amps.

 

So Tee, even if I had a keys-only gig (no PA) I'd still bring this unit is it's own 4-space road case just to protect my gear. Plus it gives me 14 outlets on a 10-foot cord so I don't have to bring power strips.

 

Mark

 

"Think Pink Floyd are whiny old men? No Problem. Turn em off and enjoy the Miley Cyrus remix featuring Pitbull." - Cygnus64

 

Life is shorter than you think...make it count.

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Thank you Sparky - the 2400 not the 1200 eh?

 

Since I carry the powered QSC PA (2 subs, 2 12s for tops, and one 12 for monitor) I need the 2400W capacity. In your position with various keys, plus powered speaker(s) and have a little extra money, I would get this one Furman AR 1215 because it takes a single rack space and is more precise and only weighs 12 pounds. Available around $525 (Amazon).

"Think Pink Floyd are whiny old men? No Problem. Turn em off and enjoy the Miley Cyrus remix featuring Pitbull." - Cygnus64

 

Life is shorter than you think...make it count.

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Thank you Sparky - the 2400 not the 1200 eh?

 

Since I carry the powered QSC PA (2 subs, 2 12s for tops, and one 12 for monitor) I need the 2400W capacity. In your position with various keys, plus powered speaker(s) and have a little extra money, I would get this one Furman AR 1215 because it takes a single rack space and is more precise and only weighs 12 pounds. Available around $525 (Amazon).

One keyboard per gig. 2 powered speakers and a small fan in summer ( which San Diego IS about 11 months per solstice ;-) ) requires the 2400 not the 1200? And the 2400 is much larger than the expensive $525 Furman, and is more precise? Precision accomplishes what in my case?

$525 is a lot of money for most!

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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Tee,

 

We practice in my basement. Setup: CS400 to drive two monitors, CS800 to drive 4 15" 2-way's, QSC USA400 to drive the bass rig; 50-watt JCM-900, 85-watt Fender Twin, Hammond L100P, MS Low Pro/Pro3T, 2 keyboards, EV-ELX112P monitor for keys. All of that is driven off of the LC1200. It has never "tripped" (pardon the expression) one time. LC2400 for what you're describing sounds like overkill to me.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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So can we ALL agree that for one keyboard ( maybe two someday ) and 2 amps and a fan, I ( one would be presumed ) am safe from brownouts, spikes , and area 51 type invasive activity ( P ) with the 1200 !!

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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I used to use an older style (metal case) LC 1200and it seemed to do an ok job for a few years but when the guts of my DP fried and previously unheard hums and buzzes materialized in other gear I got suspicious and took the LC out of action. Hums and buzzes disappeared. Contacted Tripplite for a diagnosis and repair and was pretty much dismissed. Asked the guy at Tripplite where I could buy a new one and he had one hell of a time trying to come up with a dealer. Finally after some hemming and hawing he suggested some out of the way dealer I had never heard of and said they might have one. Tripplite's own sales/customer liason guy turned me off to Tripplite. Disposable electronics? Too bad for me and Tripplite.
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Thanks for the input, Pa Gherkin. That's what I'm wrestling with.....

 

Mark

"Think Pink Floyd are whiny old men? No Problem. Turn em off and enjoy the Miley Cyrus remix featuring Pitbull." - Cygnus64

 

Life is shorter than you think...make it count.

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So in lite of Pa's trip with the trip lite folks. Now what ?

$525 Furman. Gulp. Ugh!! Anything as effective for many of our modest needs that is not $525? Just askin!

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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I personally use an APC SmartUPS, rated at 600va (about 450 watts). It provides surge protection, and will switch to battery if the incoming voltage gets too low (this can be adjusted in several steps using a computer and APC control software). It does NOT provide overvoltage protection in the sense of a continuous 130 volt or that sort of thing. However, I've never run into a situation where there was overvoltage running from commercial AC mains (this can happen if running from small generators). Cost is well under $525, more like $150 to 200.

 

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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There was a previous thread about this. Be aware that there are varying technologies in play that do different things, but yet seem to overlap in MARKETING. But what you REALLY need to understand is what you REALLY NEED based on your circumstance.

 

When it comes to power correction, there are a few things:

 

Multitap transformers: As discussed above, these can adjust the voltage up or down in discrete steps. In most cases, this is adequate. It's heavy and expensive. It can cover a very wide range, requires no battery, and can adjust in both directions.

 

Inverters: These are typically what's used in a UPS(uninterruptable power supply). These have a battery, and most only handle dropouts, not overvoltage. They switch to a battery supply that uses PWM and a transformer to create a perfect 120V sine wave. Usually they don't condition power coming in otherwise except for the normal power strip type stuff.

 

Filtering and Surge Suppression: This is what most power strips do. Clean power is 60Hz, so they have filters that try to block any kind of other frequencies, and usually ZNR's or something similar to absorb power spikes - mostly damaging transients. Other than that, they really do no voltage correction.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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JustD aka OnlyD aka DDDDDDDDDDD 0_0 ;-)

Goodness, Heavy, Expensive, not likely to be needed for the rare overage of power.. spikes..

I work in clubs/ restaurants/ hotels Big AC units/, places where people come to eat, relax, maybe dance a little, be entertained! ( very little ha ha) .

What weight/ $$$/ options are there for people like Tee???

 

 

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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  • 6 years later...
Digging up this old thread with an update, in case anyone is interested. It has been another 7 years of PA gigs and the LCR2400 is still going strong with no issues. Was put to the test this weekend when I went against my previously hard fast rule and let someone plug in their lights. What harm can two small LED wash lights do? Well, she thought 'since it is OK to run my lights on an extension cord from his distro, I guess it"s OK to plug in my cool smoke machines too!'. Halfway through the first tune she kicked them on and the stage went dark and quiet. To plug all of her shit, turn off my FOH and speakers, hit the reset button, powered up and we were off again. ran the whole PA (QSC HPR subs, 2-12' HPR tops, 3-12' HPR for monitors) and the band with two old Fender 100w tube amps, all from a 100" 12ga extension. I would buy this unit again. Currently found for around $350.

"Think Pink Floyd are whiny old men? No Problem. Turn em off and enjoy the Miley Cyrus remix featuring Pitbull." - Cygnus64

 

Life is shorter than you think...make it count.

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