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Guitars: Better than politics


Sharkman

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I get it Sharkman, The old Tele's looked like a plank of wood that even I could cut out on a band saw, but the newer ones have contoured bodies like a Strat...You have to give them credit for a wonderfully simple Model A Ford assembly line product that wound up sounding like something truly special. Lots of Country boys and rock and rollers like Paisley, Burton, Gatton, Buchanan, and a host of others, can get some real Purdy sounds out them there wood shop geetars. Hell, even the Jazz boys are starting to use them now. I sold the two I had to family members and they still love them...

 

I was just trying to add a little hot sauce to the too civilized thread, after all it's guitars, sports and politics! LOL! :thu:

Take care, Larryz
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I don't mind being a good sport while losing an A's game, but running down those Telecasters is just going to damn far! You boys better stick to sports! Woodshop projects my Ass! LOL!

 

Don't fret( no pun intended)Larry. Even though they DO look like "woodshop projects"( Gibson has an LP model that does, too), remember Susan Boyle.

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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I get it Sharkman, The old Tele's looked like a plank of wood that even I could cut out on a band saw, but the newer ones have contoured bodies like a Strat...You have to give them credit for a wonderfully simple Model A Ford assembly line product that wound up sounding like something truly special. Lots of Country boys and rock and rollers like Paisley, Burton, Gatton, Buchanan, and a host of others, can get some real Purdy sounds out them there wood shop geetars. Hell, even the Jazz boys are starting to use them now. I sold the two I had to family members and they still love them...

 

Gents,

 

Do you recall my posts regarding a TV show on the Smithsxonian Channel called Electrified-A History of the Electric Guitar. They spent quite a bit of time discussing the Tele and its place in history. They made the observation that the guitar was designed to be simple and utilitarian. That was one of the underlying principles of the instrument. I do think that they look like something put together by monkeys with a hammer, a screwdriver and a lug wrench. So ugly it's beautiful.

If you play cool, you are cool.
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Personally I think the Tele is beautiful in it's simplicity. I used one for my main guitar for many years. Two of my fav guitar players were/are Danny Gatton & Roy Buchanan...

HOW COULD THEY BE WRONG????

SEHpicker

 

The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

 

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Hell, even the Jazz boys are starting to use them now.

 

Starting? It's been going on a long time. Lenny Breau & Bill Frissell are just the first 2 that come to mind. Ken Rosser, a mainstay in the LA scene is also a longtime Tele player. Just roll off the twang & Teles can do jazz just fine.

Scott Fraser
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Hell, even the Jazz boys are starting to use them now.

 

Ed Bickert, one of Canada's foremost jazz guitarists, has been using one for YEARS.

Whitefang

 

@ Scott and Fang, Yeah, but look up some jazz lessons on youtube these days and Teles are all over the place...I'm seeing a lot more players using them. It's not just for the big box boys anymore...also, I'm seeing more Strats being used for jazz lessons too!

 

 

Take care, Larryz
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Personally I think the Tele is beautiful in it's simplicity. I used one for my main guitar for many years. Two of my fav guitar players were/are Danny Gatton & Roy Buchanan...

HOW COULD THEY BE WRONG????

 

+1 SEH, I included both of them in my prior post. Those two can just knock your socks off!

Take care, Larryz
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I get it Sharkman, The old Tele's looked like a plank of wood that even I could cut out on a band saw, but the newer ones have contoured bodies like a Strat...You have to give them credit for a wonderfully simple Model A Ford assembly line product that wound up sounding like something truly special. Lots of Country boys and rock and rollers like Paisley, Burton, Gatton, Buchanan, and a host of others, can get some real Purdy sounds out them there wood shop geetars. Hell, even the Jazz boys are starting to use them now. I sold the two I had to family members and they still love them...

 

Gents,

 

Do you recall my posts regarding a TV show on the Smithsxonian Channel called Electrified-A History of the Electric Guitar. They spent quite a bit of time discussing the Tele and its place in history. They made the observation that the guitar was designed to be simple and utilitarian. That was one of the underlying principles of the instrument. I do think that they look like something put together by monkeys with a hammer, a screwdriver and a lug wrench. So ugly it's beautiful.

 

Low cost, mass production and quick profit motives produced one of the best sounding guitars of all time almost by accident. Provided you put it in the hands of someone who does not need a lot of whistles and bells and can take command of that fast maple necked Tele Twang...and it works well in other than country genres too! I like the way they look, but I like the looks of the Strat even better...

Take care, Larryz
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Hell, even the Jazz boys are starting to use them now.

 

Ed Bickert, one of Canada's foremost jazz guitarists, has been using one for YEARS.

Whitefang

 

@ Scott and Fang, Yeah, but look up some jazz lessons on youtube these days and Teles are all over the place...I'm seeing a lot more players using them. It's not just for the big box boys anymore...also, I'm seeing more Strats being used for jazz lessons too!

 

 

See? Haven't I made that argument before? In the past, some members here( don't know if they still are) kept asking advice on WHICH model of "Jazz guitar" is the best. And I would always point out that ANY guitar would fill the bill. It's the PLAYER that's the main factor. Many of them insisted that one NEEDED a big, fat hollow bodied axe to play jazz PROPERLY, as if the size of the damned thing somehow improved the CHOPS. Many weren't aware that the Fender Jaguar and Jazzmaster were CREATED with that genre in mind. In fact, some of the dudes I talked about this with didn't even know there WERE Jaguar and Jazzmaster Fender models!

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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+1 Fang, There is a signature [LOOK] for each genre (i.e. jazz, rockabilly, heavy metal, blues, etc.) where the guitar in question is snubbed if it doesn't fit in at the venue. That is, until the player starts playing and it sounds as good or better than anyone ever expected. Single coils can sound just as good as humbuckers in the right hands. I love it when a guy shows up with a $150 guitar (like an Epi LP jr.) and blows the doors off the joint...

 

Jazzmasters were snubbed by the jazzers as it didn't look the part, it was single coiled, and a solid body as opposed to a single humbucker on an archtop. They were picked up by rock and rollers and surf bands. Fender put out the Jaguar as a short scale version of the Jazzmaster for the R&R and surf bands to give them more speed. Most single coil guitars didn't fit the jazz click, but they do now. I think the Jazzmaster will be revisted the same way Tele's and Strats are on the jazz scene more and more these days...

Take care, Larryz
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I think of Chuck Berry, who started off with what some think of as a "jazz" guitar model, until he switched to the semi-hollow Gibson.

 

I have a friend who insists that today, most of those hollow bodied "jazz" guitar types wouldn't work for today's rock music because of the volume levels it's played at these days, and it would cause too much feedback. But he did finally concede that with conscious effort in adjusting the tone controls on both guitar and amp, solid bodied electrics could work well for jazz.

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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I have a friend who insists that today, most of those hollow bodied "jazz" guitar types wouldn't work for today's rock music because of the volume levels it's played at these days, and it would cause too much feedback. But he did finally concede that with conscious effort in adjusting the tone controls on both guitar and amp, solid bodied electrics could work well for jazz.

Whitefang

 

I concur with your friend regarding hollow bodies not being the best choice for Rock music. Given the wide variety of musical sub-categories of Jazz, I think that a solid body could work well in some of the more modern sub-genres (It seemed to work pretty well for Les Paul). However, I do feel that if you're playing standards, a hollow or semi-hollow body would probably be a better fit in terms of tone.

If you play cool, you are cool.
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As a matter of fact, I went to a jazz brunch last year, and the band was all about playing standards like "Take 5"...and the guitarist was using a Godin solidbody. (One of the LP-styled ones.)

 

And I'm still mentally committed to replacing the HBs in my Dean Special Select EVO with a HB and ultra-clean P90 from Vintage Vibe as a kind of stealth "Weapon of Jazz Destruction."

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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I think of Chuck Berry, who started off with what some think of as a "jazz" guitar model, until he switched to the semi-hollow Gibson.

 

I have a friend who insists that today, most of those hollow bodied "jazz" guitar types wouldn't work for today's rock music because of the volume levels it's played at these days, and it would cause too much feedback. But he did finally concede that with conscious effort in adjusting the tone controls on both guitar and amp, solid bodied electrics could work well for jazz.

Whitefang

 

Scotty Moore never gave up on that big hollow bodied Gibson and set the stage for Rock and Roll. But, I have to agree with your friend, at today's Rock volume levels they would probably be the feedback monsters from hell. They surely wouldn't look the part in a Heavy Metal band.

 

Many semi-hollow models have blocks inside to cut feed back like my Taylor T3, but they do add a lot of weight. My Taylor T5 with no block and the same body style is waaaaayyyy lighter...

Take care, Larryz
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Alvin Lee enjoyed quite a career playing rock with a hollow body guitar.

It's really more about the player than the instrument. Some types of guitars do serve certain styles of playing better than others but in the final analysis - it's the player. IMHO

SEHpicker

 

The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." George Orwell

 

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Alvin Lee enjoyed quite a career playing rock with a hollow body guitar.

It's really more about the player than the instrument. Some types of guitars do serve certain styles of playing better than others but in the final analysis - it's the player. IMHO

 

Hey SEH,

 

Would you happen to know what guitar Alvin Lee played?

 

I just went online and found out that Alvin Lee played an ES-335. This is a center block semi-hollow design. I really think that a hollow body would howl like a whipped dog at those volume levels.

If you play cool, you are cool.
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Epiphone Casinos are hollowbodies, and they're used a lot for today's loud rock music... at least of the indie/retro garage variety (feedback being part of the allure of them). One of the guitarists in Fugazi used a Rickenbacker in a very aggressive manner through a Park half-stack.

 

The only people I've ever seen use Steinberger guitars in person have been jazz guitarists, getting very nice tones that should be coming out of a big jazz box.

 

[video:youtube]

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Alvin Lee enjoyed quite a career playing rock with a hollow body guitar.

It's really more about the player than the instrument. Some types of guitars do serve certain styles of playing better than others but in the final analysis - it's the player. IMHO

 

Hey SEH,

 

Would you happen to know what guitar Alvin Lee played?

 

I just went online and found out that Alvin Lee played an ES-335. This is a center block semi-hollow design. I really think that a hollow body would howl like a whipped dog at those volume levels.

 

Not really, Ted Nugent plays all Birdlands and the volume level doesn't get much higher than that on stage! I played 335s and 355s through Marshall stacks all the time and if anything it's you position on the stage and knowing the guitar/amp combination very well, you can get amazing results

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Alvin Lee enjoyed quite a career playing rock with a hollow body guitar.

It's really more about the player than the instrument. Some types of guitars do serve certain styles of playing better than others but in the final analysis - it's the player. IMHO

 

Hey SEH,

 

Would you happen to know what guitar Alvin Lee played?

 

I just went online and found out that Alvin Lee played an ES-335. This is a center block semi-hollow design. I really think that a hollow body would howl like a whipped dog at those volume levels.

 

Not really, Ted Nugent plays all Birdlands and the volume level doesn't get much higher than that on stage! I played 335s and 355s through Marshall stacks all the time and if anything it's you position on the stage and knowing the guitar/amp combination very well, you can get amazing results

 

Hey Lee,

 

Unless I'm mistaken, both the 335 and 355 are semi-hollow designs. I was aware of Ted Nugent's extensive use of the Byrdland onstage. I tried to find out if the Byrdland was a hollow or semi-hollow design, but couldn't find anything. I absolutely agree that your position onstage is a factor in limiting feedback, but still think that a hollow body will tend to howl at high volume.

 

Just found this on the MF website:

 

The Byrdland retained the traditional carved solid-spruce arched top and wide dimensions (17) of big-bodied jazzers like its predecessor the L-5CES, but was considerably thinner, at only 2 1/4 deep. The electric guitar was here to stay, and Gibsons designers quite rightly determined that a guitar that was intended primarily as an electricrather than acousticinstrument should be made in a way that would minimize feedback. Gibson created the Thinline series, which included the Byrdland partnered by the ES-350T, released the same year. Together they constituted the first of the new thin-bodied breed, and launched a design trend for archtop electrics that would proliferate to this day. So successful was its design ethos, that it not only offered a popular alternative for jazz, pop, and country players, it also proved capable of cranking out heavy rock in the hands of guitarists such as Ted Nugent.

 

If you play cool, you are cool.
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I absolutely agree that your position onstage is a factor in limiting feedback, but still think that a hollow body will tend to howl at high volume.

 

A hollow body will tend to feedback even at very low volumes. In my solo & duo gigs I play really quietly, basically balanced with either an acoustic guitarist or trumpet, & my Gretsches will feedback very easily, depending on where I am in relation to the amp & the frequency of the note played. BTW, I don't view this as a bad thing. The set up period is for finding those frequencies, in order to incorporate the additional resonance into preferred keys for that particular gig.

Scott Fraser
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I absolutely agree that your position onstage is a factor in limiting feedback, but still think that a hollow body will tend to howl at high volume.

 

A hollow body will tend to feedback even at very low volumes. In my solo & duo gigs I play really quietly, basically balanced with either an acoustic guitarist or trumpet, & my Gretsches will feedback very easily, depending on where I am in relation to the amp & the frequency of the note played. BTW, I don't view this as a bad thing. The set up period is for finding those frequencies, in order to incorporate the additional resonance into preferred keys for that particular gig.

 

Scott,

 

Thanks for that valuable insight. BTW: I've always lusted after a Gretsch (particularly the White Falcon with the Trapeze tailpiece). Which models do you own?

If you play cool, you are cool.
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I absolutely agree that your position onstage is a factor in limiting feedback, but still think that a hollow body will tend to howl at high volume.

 

A hollow body will tend to feedback even at very low volumes. In my solo & duo gigs I play really quietly, basically balanced with either an acoustic guitarist or trumpet, & my Gretsches will feedback very easily, depending on where I am in relation to the amp & the frequency of the note played. BTW, I don't view this as a bad thing. The set up period is for finding those frequencies, in order to incorporate the additional resonance into preferred keys for that particular gig.

 

Scott,

 

Thanks for that valuable insight. BTW: I've always lusted after a Gretsch (particularly the White Falcon with the Trapeze tailpiece). Which models do you own?

 

A Falcon would be sweet but beyond my guitar buying budget. I have a G3161 Streamliner & recently have been playing gigs with my G5120. Depends on the gig as to whether I just bring a solid body, or add an archtop to the schlep.

Scott Fraser
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Just for the hell of it, here's a video of one loud Punk band with a beautiful ES-295, full hollow-body W/P90's! (BTW, if the opening riff sounds familiar, well, there's a story behind that - I'll wait to see who makes the connection, first.)

 

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

 

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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