Forward motion...

[Allister]

I seem to have lost mine.

 

Basically to cut a long story short, I'm tired of not being where I want to be as a player. I understand these things won't come overnight but at the moment I feel like i'm wandering around in the dark without direction.

 

My university provides me with an instrumental teacher, I explained I wanted to learn more about jazz and blues, that I yearn to be able to play better blues (stuff like Hugh Laurie's rendition of Swanee river, boogie and new orleans blues and such) with every ounce of my soul. He gives me classical stuff to do.

I see the reasoning behind it, but when you want something so badly it's hard to focus on anything else, and all my efforts seem to end in desperation.

 

Aside from all the doom and gloom i'm in some really good bands locally but don't learn much as they are just your basic function bands.

 

any advice on how to get out of this rut would be greatly appreciated as I really feel at whits end lately.

[J. Dan]

I don't know why, but it seems that teachers either teach classical or jazz. At least that was my experience growing up taking lessons. As a kid, I didn't know enough to pick the right kind of teacher. The teacher I started out with taught jazz, but she passed away. I didn't take lessons for a few years then when I started up again, the next one taught classical. I really didn't connect in the same way. Strangely enough, I don't think that it was until I went away to college and wasn't taking lessons anymore that I started getting better. I guess by then I had the fundamentals, but I started spending a lot of time playing stuff that I liked. I think it was my enthusiasm and the extra time I put in that did the trick. I think I again stagnated for a while and just recently made more progress by changing things up again and focusing on some challenging music.

 

I guess long story short, you have to do what motivates you.

[Allister]

Yeah, I also feel most of my gains have been from pushing myself, rather than having a teacher do it. I don't really know what to make of this guy though, I told him I was transcribing Charlie Parker solo's to get some licks and he told me to stop. I don't dbout him as a player but his methods seem to be taking me in the wrong direction.

[opdigits]

I suggest that you either supplement what your uni teacher is teaching you by finding a teacher somewhere that teaches you what you want to learn, or, to quit the uni teacher altogether and find a teacher somewhere that teaches you what you want to learn.

 

Don't waste your motivation to learn what you feel in your soul!

[Sam Mullins]

I don't really know what to make of this guy though, I told him I was transcribing Charlie Parker solo's to get some licks and he told me to stop.

 

Your instructor is a nut case. It is one thing to have your own teaching method (which might not include Charlie Parker)...it is quite another to actively discourage you from independently studying one of the acknowledged masters of the 20th century. This alone makes him suspect as a bad teacher.

[George88]

Did he say why you should stop transcribing Parker? Is there anything you like about this teacher? Have you learned anything from him?

 

There may be value in what he is teaching you, rather than dismissing him altogether, which I myself would be inclined to do. However, as an outsider looking in, with the awareness that I may be projecting, I would be curious to know his reasoning. I regret never developing reading skills and again, projecting, would like to see you be able to develop reading and an ear.

 

The answer could of course be that he simply cannot teach what you want to learn and/or you can read anything already. If so...split!!

 

 

 

[SpaceNorman]

Obviously, studying in a formal music program - there's no doubt rules you gotta follow. However, these days when it comes to personal development my theory is pretty simple: Create what you can, learn what you must - fill in any gaps with whatever you can steal.

[Joe Muscara]

If what you say about him telling you to stop doing the transcriptions is accurate, I agree with what's been said above. The only way I can think of it being a problem is if it's taking you away from other studies. OTOH, some classical people are pretty rigid on what is the "right" way to do things (maybe I shouldn't say 'classical people' since you find that with some anywhere) so they can be a real stick in the mud about anything else.

 

I think learning some classical stuff is good, as I wish I was better at that. You can bring some of that to what you do want to do. Hopefully he's teaching you technique as well as repertoire. Both can be very helpful in the long run.

 

I would simply suggest you continue to do what you enjoy on your own and don't bother telling him about it. The other thing is, when you're studying music, it's normal to feel like you're going nowhere sometimes. Then on other days, you feel like you've grown several inches. I guess sometimes it takes a while for all that you've learned to sink in and become part of you. Once it does, it comes out naturally and that's a great feeling. Stick with it, you'll get there.

 

P.S. Is anyone where they want to be as a player? I think any player worth their salt hears things they want to do or in their head that they cannot play and pursues that. I not only think that, I've seen and read great players who have said as much. Like my teacher says, the great thing about music is there's always something else to learn, but the annoying thing about music is there's always something else to learn.

[JCRoswell]

Not knowing your teacher personally I hesitate to pass any judgment on him, but one thing I try to encourage my students to do is take the most direct route you can to where you want to go. If you want to be a classical pianist then study that. If you want to be a jazz pianist then focus on that. Same for any other genre. Each genre has so much to learn the sooner you start the better.

 

Obviously you know what you want to play so I'd say make every effort you can to learn it. Can you switch teachers at your school to someone who will teach the stuff you want to learn? Is university the best way to get you the career you want? Tough questions, I know. In the end the only person who is invested in your development is you.

[churchkeybob]

It's possible that this is more about life managment than music managment. I think most of us (if not all) have felt that we're stuck or not going were we thought at some time or another. I just made some wholesale changes in my life (58 years old) to get to were my passion wants to take me. Was it hard? You bet. Am I happy? You bet. My advice is do what ever you have to do to keep your passion burning. So if your passion is jazz. go for it. Good luck. ~BOB

[I-missRichardTee]

I don't really know what to make of this guy though, I told him I was transcribing Charlie Parker solo's to get some licks and he told me to stop.

 

Your instructor is a nut case. It is one thing to have your own teaching method (which might not include Charlie Parker)...it is quite another to actively discourage you from independently studying one of the acknowledged masters of the 20th century. This alone makes him suspect as a bad teacher.

 

Do NOT allow motivation to die in you. It maybe suffering for whatever reasons ( avoid drugs in general too ) but you must not permit it to out and out DIE! Big big mistake! You can ignore the rest of my words.. and take this to heart. Motivation is very valuable and can die if you let it.

Your teacher is likely wrong. Long ago I had the good fortune to study with 2 of the greatest teachers .. they never discouraged classical or jazz.. this is an idiot..he may know a thing or two about whatever his myopic thing is.. that is fine.. good for him.. but his job is to teach YOU..

There are principles in music that apply to both blues and classical.. good meter, tone, dynamics, on and on.

But I must say classical music and blues are at opposite ends in some hard for me to define sense. But then again, a blues master and a classical master both end up touching their listeners.

Just do what he says to do, but then omit from informing him about the Blues. Your heart and ear is your friend with Blues.. so teach yourself by listening to recordings of Blues people. You don't have to drop Classical music.

Is he a "bad dude", in his classical world- highly respected, highly competent? He may not be shite.. I do not know. In any case don't drop classical, just teach yourself Blues, and do not say a word to him about it. He appears to be a narrow minded guy. My classically trained teacher played with Toscanini AND taught a who's who of jazz people. So, he appears to be one of those narrow dudes. Make sure you find out how competent he is.

[ITGITC]

I'm tired of not being where I want to be as a player.

 

To cut a long story short...

 

Where do you want to be and what do you want to be doing once you're out of college (university)?

 

Do you plan to make a living in music?

 

Will you pay the bills from teaching, performing, composing for film, TV, or video games?

 

If any of the above goals make it to your list, how far are you along at attaining them?

 

Blues and jazz are your passion. However, a foundation that includes classical study is beneficial.

 

Also, never expect a classical musician to enjoy or appreciate jazz and blues. These genres are very different in their approach. If you do find an instructor who understands and appreciates these genres equally, let me know. I've never met one. Learn classical music from the instructor you have now. Learn jazz & blues from someone else. Don't let one know about the other.

 

Write down your goals and the path you need to follow to attain them.

 

Have a clear understanding of what it's going to cost to live once you're out of school and be sure you can pay your bills.

 

Follow your heart.

 

 

[dongna]

... a foundation that includes classical study is beneficial. ... Learn classical music from the instructor you have now. Learn jazz & blues from someone else. Don't let one know about the other.

Very nicely said, ITCITC. I especially concur with the quoted section.

[Allister]

First of all, thanks for all the replies everyone. Really overwhelmed with the great responses and personal anecdotes.

 

As a kid, I didn't know enough to pick the right kind of teacher. The teacher

Really good point Dan. I'm only starting to realise what I want from a teacher, also looking at what they can offer me.

 

quit the uni teacher altogether and find a teacher somewhere that teaches you what you want to learn.

This is definitely a possibility, I think if I paid for the lessons I would go elsewhere. It doesn't help that he is a genuinely nice guy who's a hell of a player, i just can't connect with his methods.

 

Create what you can, learn what you must - fill in any gaps with whatever you can steal.

I think this might become my new mantra

 

there's always something else to learn.

Agreed!

 

So if your passion is jazz. go for it. Good luck. ~BOB

Thank's bob

 

Do NOT allow motivation to die in you. It maybe suffering for whatever reasons ( avoid drugs in general too ) but you must not permit it to out and out DIE! Big big mistake! You can ignore the rest of my words.. and take this to heart. Motivation is very valuable and can die if you let it.

Your comment really resonated with me, the one thing I can't understand about this guy is that he can play killer jazz and blues (compared to me anyway) but is quite reluctant to show me licks and such, instead saying that learning classical music to further refine my technique to improve my blues and jazz (even though i've not yet encountered a riff that cant be played competently with some practise.)

 

 

To cut a long story short...

 

Where do you want to be and what do you want to be doing once you're out of college (university)?

 

Do you plan to make a living in music?

 

Will you pay the bills from teaching, performing, composing for film, TV, or video games?

 

If any of the above goals make it to your list, how far are you along at attaining them?

 

Blues and jazz are your passion. However, a foundation that includes classical study is beneficial.

 

Also, never expect a classical musician to enjoy or appreciate jazz and blues. These genres are very different in their approach. If you do find an instructor who understands and appreciates these genres equally, let me know. I've never met one. Learn classical music from the instructor you have now. Learn jazz & blues from someone else. Don't let one know about the other.

 

Write down your goals and the path you need to follow to attain them.

 

Have a clear understanding of what it's going to cost to live once you're out of school and be sure you can pay your bills.

 

Follow your heart.

 

Again, another resonating comment. I'll be sure to make a list like this, it also has the benefit of allowing me to look back in a few months to see if i've made any progress towards them.

 

 

Again, thanks everyone. The wealth of knowledge and kindness in these forums is second to none.

[MAJUSCULE]

Ah, people here are nice. Don't worry guys, I have no qualms about passing judgement on this teacher without knowing him.

 

IF he had suggested you transcribe someone else, that would be one thing.

 

IF he wanted you to work on technique to supplement the ear and the heart, that would be one thing.

 

IF he tried to make your lessons and personal growth enjoyable and motivating, that would be one thing.

 

But he ain't. He's way off the mark.

 

(Disclaimer: Teachers sapping motivation is a bit of a sensitive issue for me. Had a high school teacher who ruined it for a lot of my peers. They maybe wouldn't have gone on to earn their living, but they definitely could've had a better time, grown more, and played a ton more stuff.)

 

I'm totally into supplementing jazz with classical. I try to do it a couple times a week. I'm thankful for the years I took as a kid; as a result, I'm further ahead in the reading/theory/technique game than many of my jazz/pop peers. But your teacher has to remember that he's not teaching you, he's helping you learn. Does that make sense? Kinda like having a conversation vs. talking at someone.

 

My current teacher is the best I've had. Why? Because when I come in every week, he says, "Ok, what'd you got?" He forces me to learn tunes, critique my playing and practice, practice, practice. And then he picks my playing apart in ways I hadn't thought of. And then we do it all again.

 

The fact is your teacher can only point you in the right direction - YOUR right direction. The majority of the learning has always been and will always be up to you. Therefore, if your teacher is discouraging your self-motivation and your personal growth, he's garbage to me. I don't care if he's a great player, there are plenty of those. I've had the great player/shitty teacher combo before. It's ok. But it doesn't make you want to practice, it just makes you want to waste your time endlessly noodling.

 

Again, if he thought that Bird licks aren't the right thing at the time, and he suggested different players to lift, that would be one thing. Bird's tough. I'm not doing that shit yet. But telling you not to lift at all? Bullshit. The guy doesn't know the first thing about the music. It's an oral/aural tradition, no matter how many books have been written about it.

 

Feel free to correct me, I'll be happy to know that he's a better teacher than I think he is. But AFAIC, pay your bill and don't ask to have the leftovers packed up.

 

Good luck!

 

PS: Listening is the answer to everything. Listen to remember why you love music. Listen to improve. Listen to steal. Listen to communicate. Listen to everything.

 

PPS: "Improvement cannot come in a day, but it must come daily."

[I-missRichardTee]

++++ 1 Brilliantly put. ( moderator: is it preferred that a comment like mine with little content, be not done.. maybe instead send the forum member a PM instead?? )

[David Loving]

I find that studying classical pays off in every other genre I play. Plus, all the ideas are usually terrific.