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I'm still a Casio snob


The Piano Man

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Pander, no pander.. it would be nice if audiences listened only with their ears, but the sad truth is that they don't.

 

http://www.nature.com/news/musicians-appearances-matter-more-than-their-sound-1.13572

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3

Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H

Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9

Roland: VR-09, RD-800

 

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Casio has been knocking it out of the park for a while now.

 

I've been having a blast doing some contract work for them recently - designing vintage EPs, Clavs, pianos, etc for the PX5s. I'll be handing my new programs in to Mike Martin at the end of this week.

 

I've been thoroughly impressed with the samples, synth

architecture and quality of fx.

 

Hi Dave! , great stuff! :).

 

Brett.

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Pander, no pander.. it would be nice if audiences listened only with their ears, but the sad truth is that they don't.

 

http://www.nature.com/news/musicians-appearances-matter-more-than-their-sound-1.13572

 

You shouldn't be surprised , and the truth isn't "sad". If you're in the entertainment world on stage , the visual is a huge part of the music game.

People want someone who "floats their boat" on stage - "lifts their gib" if you like :D.

 

That's why it can get tougher as you get older.

 

 

Brett.

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My M-16 was a Mattel. I was told later it is not the same entity as the toy company.
Unless some other company was stamping the Mattel logo in their stocks, it was the toy company who made those Springfield stocks.

 

And I think the reason is the same one that allows Casio to make great keyboards at a low price: the large-scale economics driving good engineering for low variable cost.

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Sorry, I must disagree with all of you who are chiming in saying "stop being shallow" etc. The name on the back of the keyboard as very important, people read it, and they have a negative predisposition toward Casio (unless they are musicians in the know). Dressing right is important for a gig, so is lights, punctuality, being friendly and cool. All of these things add to the persona of the professional musician. Adding a Roland or Yamaha or Korg keyboard also reinforces this. Having a Casio label on the back of your board does the opposite.

 

Mike, this isnt an attack on Casio, and its also not complaining about what Casio are doing, quite the opposite. It was just a suggestion, that rebranding might be favorable for your product line. I dont want to put tape on my keyboards, but I will have to if I ever buy a Casio. And in fairness, the products your releasing now are in a different league to the home line, I say they deserve a new, unsullied name! You say it will never happen. I say that will hurt your sales. Maybe your selling enough because they are so inexpensive that you dont need more sales? You guys definitely make the cheapest, and most light weight stage boards, but you dont make the best stage boards, these are still being made by Roland, Nord, Yamaha, Kurzweil and Korg.

We are all slave's to our brain chemistry!

 

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Sorry, but that's not true. The audience doesn't care what keyboard you use. They are looking at the lead singer first, the guitarist second, the drummer third, and then listening to the music. They do not care about the keyboardist or what name is on the back of the board. That's completely silly.
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Sorry, but that's not true. The audience doesn't care what keyboard you use. They are looking at the lead singer first, the guitarist second, the drummer third, and then listening to the music. They do not care about the keyboardist or what name is on the back of the board. That's completely silly.

 

Its not completely silly. In my neck of the woods people read. Period. I have had people come up to me asking should they buy a Roland for their daughter etc because they saw me playing one etc.I do solo, duo, band, big band, tv work. This shit gets seen, believe me. True, not everyone always reads whats on the back of the keyboards, but many, many punters and gaffers do. I think your generalization is silly and unfounded.

We are all slave's to our brain chemistry!

 

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I have never once had anyone come up to me and say, "You're playing a CASIO? That's unprofessional." And I tour all over country with my Privia.

 

If they are shallow enough to judge the music by what keyboard I'm playing, especially after I'm done playing, then I don't want to talk to them anyway.

 

The most often response I get from people is, "Wow, your rig sounds amazing. What are you using?" When I show them the Privia, they say something like "Oh yeah, I've heard good things about those." Casio is doing the right thing by sticking by it's name.

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There may be a lot of people who think Casio is crap but as time goes on more people are realizing that there are good products from Casio out there and if Casio sticks with it they will be known for quality boards just like Honda and Hyundai have gone from junk to decent automobiles.

There are certainly other brands that have been known for quality that have gone the other way. Heintzman Piano Co. was known for good pianos but just before the company shut down they were making crap and people knew that too. Sony has also taken a turn for the worse although many people will still think they are the best electronics company out there and will still buy their products.

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I think Casio are definitely better off to stick to "CASIO" written on their boards. A new name would initially hurt sales I.M.O..

Certainly Joe bloggs in the audience wouldn't be perturbed by it ,only the "very high upper crust" :D musicians would worry about it.

The switched on musicians will know whats going on , and whats sounding great.

 

Brett.

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You guys definitely make the cheapest, and most light weight stage boards,

 

You left off great action, amazing sound and unprecedented level of customer support.

 

but you dont make the best most expensive stage boards, these are still being made by Roland, Nord, Yamaha, Kurzweil and Korg.

 

Fixed that for 'ya. :)

 

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This is a silly argument....the dang thing sounds great, I couldn't care less about the name on the back. If some ass hat in the audience has a problem with the name, he can whip out his Amex Uranium card and BUY me something from Roland, Nord , Yamaha, Kurzweil or Korg....other than that he can shut his pie hole. Tell you what- if I were ever to lose ONE gig because it was perceived that I was "unprofessional" for playing a Casio I might feel differently, but so far this board has gotten nothing but compliments for the way it sounds.
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They are looking at the lead singer first, the guitarist second, the drummer third, ... They do not care about the keyboardist...

 

So sad.... And so true....

'55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400; Wurlitzer 200; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module

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Sorry, but that's not true. The audience doesn't care what keyboard you use. They are looking at the lead singer first, the guitarist second, the drummer third, and then listening to the music. They do not care about the keyboardist or what name is on the back of the board. That's completely silly.

 

Its not completely silly. In my neck of the woods people read. Period. I have had people come up to me asking should they buy a Roland for their daughter etc because they saw me playing one etc.I do solo, duo, band, big band, tv work. This shit gets seen, believe me. True, not everyone always reads whats on the back of the keyboards, but many, many punters and gaffers do. I think your generalization is silly and unfounded.

It may not be completely silly, but it's pretty silly. At most 1 or 2% of the audience reads the keyboard logos, and I seriously doubt it has a notable effect on your bottom line, either on income as a musician, or on the appreciation from the audience.

 

If anyone should care, it would be mediocre players like me, not serious musos with serious skills. But I have better things to worry about.

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I think the collective perception on Keyboard Corner of the extent to which Casio keyboards are used live is severely skewed. I've seen 1,000+ live shows since moving to Brooklyn and I can count the number of times I've seen a Casio keyboard on one hand (2 CDP-100s, 1 early model Privia, 1 CZ-101). Casio may sell a lot of keyboards, but as far as I can tell, it's mostly to KC members and people who use them at home, and not touring acts.

 

So yeah, Casio seems to still have perception issues, be it brand or quality, at the pro and semi-pro levels. In order to overcome them, I think we're going to have to see their ubiquity on the level that Yamaha/Roland/Korg/Nord keyboards are used in superstar touring bands. To that end, I think Casio needs the equivalent of a Motif/Fantom/Kronos/Stage.

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In order to overcome them, I think we're going to have to see their ubiquity on the level that Yamaha/Roland/Korg/Nord keyboards are used in superstar touring bands. To that end, I think Casio needs the equivalent of a Motif/Fantom/Kronos/Stage.

 

I think the PX-5S is a brilliant keyboard, but because it's so new, word hasn't got around yet to the general public, a lot of whom will still equate Casio with cheap watches.

 

The only cure IMHO, is time. In 5-10 years, Casio will no doubt have released another board or two, in the same class as those you mentioned, and people will think of Casio in the same vein as Yamaha, Korg etc.

Occasionally, do something nice for a total stranger. They'll wonder what the hell is going on!
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As it is probably some people are the most snobby about another brand, which isn't on the top of the synthesizer food chain. I thought when the Phase Modulation synths came out, and I checked one out at the music store (to compare with the Real Deal DX-7, which I bought), that the geekyness factor was considerable, but it was still fun. I didn't play a recent Casio, I've read there's like 6 "layers" per voice, and I saw the demos so it's safe to say its a cool recent line.

 

Getting the depth of a well designed Yamaha ROMPler in a much cheaper instrument is technically possible, but I don't feel this has been the current target of Casio, or at least not in the same way. So what? A cheap well working keyboard with nice sounds is fine. Nothing snobby about it.

 

I am sure snobbishness is part of a certain scene around the Kurzweils. The design as the original maker of it designed is probably (from numerous actual experiments I did) still the most advanced in it's signal processing and possible results outside of wild synthesizer designs, I can't hear any of that in other brands, except good Yamaha's have a insisting lack of certain signal properties (which is hard) and well sounding Rolands "do stuff" that doesn't just grow on sampler and artificial analog trees. I don't hear that in the Casio examples, but it may be there is more under the hood than straightforward ROMpler signal data paths.

 

Sometimes it is clear the electronic instrument industry is far from Open Source, and it should make people wonder who is most intent on keeping it that way.

 

T.

 

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I think a lot of the issue is psychological. Starting in the mid 80's, Casio became the butt of many jokes, and a mainstay in pop-culture movies for cheap, toy like items, whether it was watches, or keyboards. No matter how good the things really were.

 

With so many people growing up with these pop culture references, it's no surprise the reactions we get when we say "Casio" when asked what we're playing.

 

We know different, and hopefully, just as with other things that kept evolving the Casio name will be heralded as pro gear just like the others.

 

That being said, the rest comes down to personal preference.

I think the PX5s kicks ass for what it does, and especially at it's price point. I have not yet pulled the trigger as I have other factors involved in what I need in an 88 note board.

 

 

David

Gig Rig:Roland Fantom-08| Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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Mr. D-Bon, I can assure you that one of these

 

With an XW-P1 sitting above it can hang in any profession setting. Your basing your theory on history since Casio recently came out with this killer gear .. I'm not a fortune teller but I can promise these units are going swarm the stage by working professionals. Why? Because working cats have a tight budget and they don't care what the badge is so long as they produce. Which these units do. To base your opinion on what you've seen in the PAST 1000+ live shows is just like saying you've got it all figured out without looking at the present and a very real future.

Ps. Great chops in that footage Mike! :thu:

"A good mix is subjective to one's cilia." http://hitnmiss.yolasite.com
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Mr. D-Bon, I can assure you that one of these

 

With an XW-P1 sitting above it can hang in any profession setting. Your basing your theory on history since Casio recently came out with this killer gear .. I'm not a fortune teller but I can promise these units are going swarm the stage by working professionals. Why? Because working cats have a tight budget and they don't care what the badge is so long as they produce. Which these units do. To base your opinion on what you've seen in the PAST 1000+ live shows is just like saying you've got it all figured out without looking at the present and a very real future.

Ps. Great chops in that footage Mike! :thu:

 

No arguments with anything you posted. :thu:

David

Gig Rig:Roland Fantom-08| Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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Since I started playing Casio on pro stages and around town only a few people have 'given me shit' for it...

 

two of them weren't keyboard players and not very good at the instruments they did play...the other guy had a keyboard rig that wasn't Casio, his rig didn't blend with the band and basically sounded like shit.

 

I've never cared about who made my keyboards, only that they made the sounds I needed and were fun to play. I have covered over the logos of very expensive keyboards because of the lack of support I got from those companies.

 

As with most things...YMMV

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You guys are great. Casio owners are so loyal. Some of you seem seriously put out by some of these opinions as though someone just insulted your mom. Its entertaining, to say the least.

 

Like EscapeRocks said its psychological from Casios mixed past. Im grateful to Casio for introducing me to keyboards (MT-500). They have certainly had a great run at times (CZ, VZ), but today, hardware synths should really focus on workflow. Maybe Casio has something special in this regard. I dont know BECAUSE IM A SNOB ha ha ha!!! No, seriously I dont know, because I just walk right past the Casio display every time I see it. Not sure why I just do. They just look like toys which leads me to MY two cents to this thread

 

Most keyboards today sound great in one regard or another. I cant think of any modern hardware synths that sounds like crap across the board. In an age of soft synths and chip based hardware synths, the game is really about build quality and workflow, and to a lesser degree (dare I say it) the look. Otherwise, buy an Axiom 61 and NI Komplete and call it a day. I mean, how many people thought the prophet 12 was awesome before they even heard it? How many people are annoyed at the rainbow buttons on the JP80? Or the delicate feeling of the Kronos? I still have a tough time playing a Nord for more than five minutes that red look really does something to me in a bad way. Makes me hungry and uninspired (ha ha marketing humor).

 

If I may continue with my worthless opinion Rather than worrying about the name, I think Casio could do more for their sales if they designed a synth that truly looked like a pro synth. Not to be too superficial here Remember the VZ? That looked like a pro synth. From what Ive seen on their existing line there seems to be a Casio look to them that doesnt scream pro. I realize this is easily the most insignificant aspect of this argument, but perhaps the perception of Casio continues because their boards continue to look like typical Casio. Forget the name stamp. You put the Casio name on the Kronos or the Motif and the game changes for Casio overnight. Put Casio on a Prophet or a Virus, and sales figures move up.

 

Believe me I would love to see Casios perception issues that obviously still linger dissipate. By the enthusiasm and passion coming from Casios current users on this thread theyre obviously doing something right. If Casios modern synths sound great, feel great, and play great and if the Casio name represents some deep, historical pride not to be messed with, then perhaps a complete departures from anything resembling its toy keyboard division might be the missing link. But thats just my pathetic opinion. I still consider buying that CZ-1 I never owned growing up. I played that thing every day at the local guitar shop when I was a kid. [wipes tear]

 

You guys are great keep up the passion!!

 

~ That guy

 

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You guys definitely make the cheapest, and most light weight stage boards,

 

You left off great action, amazing sound and unprecedented level of customer support.

 

but you dont make the best most expensive stage boards, these are still being made by Roland, Nord, Yamaha, Kurzweil and Korg.

 

Fixed that for 'ya. :)

 

 

 

Fanboys, sheesh. Ill get my coat. Keep drinking the Casio Kool Aid guys. Its the best stage keyboard in the world, ever. Sounds like a certain Yamaha... hahaha

We are all slave's to our brain chemistry!

 

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I still have a tough time playing a Nord for more than five minutes that red look really does something to me in a bad way.
:rolleyes:

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Maybe the tone of some of the valued opinions can be taken as suggesting that if (and let me be explicitly clear: I firmly (and actually) believe this to be NOT the case, so read past the rethoric here) Mr. Martin *would* be ehm, for instance some Illuminati, or something else not-so-great, idea wise, _then_ it could be considered cool to somehow dismis Casio, or certain synths, etc. The opposite appears true, and that's cool, but then the question remains what type of market all this musical instrument equipment is sold in, and how the opinion of good musicians matters.

 

Like "I don't buy ABBA music, because they're not enough of a music-Nazi" could be a valid respone to certain marketing strategies, but saying "I don't like the GS-1 because Yamaha got sponsored by a girly band" clearly would be wrong.

 

If I'd have the money I'd probably want to buy the equivalent of a Vauxhall Ampera to bring on my yacht, and connect it to the solar panel, but I'd still prefer a A3-hybrid equivalent to play Montery-Jazz...

 

T

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