I'm still a Casio snob

[The Piano Man]

There is nothing to compete with the Casio PX5s.

 

Excellent hammer action

Compact body and light weight

Zoning and other features

£850

 

Unfortunately, I still see the name "Casio". I know it's just a name, and I know I can't justify what I'm saying on any rational grounds, but I don't want a Casio.

 

If that exact keyboard said Korg, Kurzweil or Roland, I think I would have ordered one by now.

 

I need to take a good look in the mirror...

[area51recording]

you're missing out if you want a great feeling, great sounding instrument with the all the features the Px5s offers, simply because of the name on the case. I had a bit of the same prejudice myself.....until I played it for a few moments. I got over it rather quickly....

[Lone Stranger]

I don't have much in the way of Casio products myself except for a watch and and old CSM-1 sound module but I have more respect for Casio than I do for companies like Bose for example. Casio gets a unfairly bad rap while Bose is overrated. I am familiar with products from both companies.

It's a mindset we have and we need to play, listen, drive etc. with an open mind when testing out products.

[The Piano Man]

Coke and Pepsi is another good example. Pepsi always wins the blind taste tests but Coke still sells more. People prefer the Coke brand.

 

I need to get over my snobbery and test out a Casio

[area51recording]

It's positively the best "bang for the buck" keyboard I've ever purchased

[JimboKeys]

Funny, i could have written this many years ago as:

Unfortunately, I still see the name "Casio" "Korg" or "Roland". I know it's just a name, and I know I can't justify what I'm saying on any rational grounds, but I don't want a Casio Korg or Roland.

 

If that exact keyboard said Korg or Roland Moog or Sequential Circuits, I think I would have ordered one by now.

So companies whose products we think of as "toys" do eventually end up as accepted major players, it just takes time and some flexibility in our own thinking.

Just some random Saturday morning thoughts,

- Jimbo

[Mark Zeger]

I understand what you mean. It's an interesting marketing decision to keep the Casio name on more recent professional grade MI products when the brand has a mixed history of calculators, watches, and cheap keyboards but also far more substantial CZ synth line.

 

It's like the car business. Honda, Toyota and Nissan created Acura, Lexus and Infiniti for premium cars. Big success. VW tried to keep their badge on the $80,000 Phaeton. Big failure. Hyundai has the $60,000 Equus that isn't selling anywhere near as well as it's Europe or Japan based counterparts. It might be a great car but many buyers want to see a premium brand on a premium car.

 

What if the the PX-5S only had Privia on the case? A piece of black tape will do that.

 

 

 

 

[JeffLearman]

I really don't get it. I couldn't care less what the nameplate says, as long as it's not offensive language. Even then I could paint over it, and probably would if it's the better product.

 

If it said "Mattel" that wouldn't slow me down.

 

Which reminds me, I once had the task of replacing Springfield '03 rifle stocks, when they broke due to being dropped during drill. The new ones were some kind of plastic fiberglass material. None of them quite fit, so we generally had to ream them out until the action & barrels fit, but once in, they worked great and were nearly indestructible (but felt crappy compared to the lovely wood stocks).

 

Inside, they were all stamped "Mattel". But they definitely weren't toys. In fact, until later when we plugged all 300 barrels, they were all functioning firearms except for lacking firing pins. Nope, not toys. Sad to say, I never did get the chance to fire one.

[CEB]

PX-3 was suposed to be good also but I didn't like the feel of it. Long sustained notes sounded like ass. Fast percussive stuff sounded fine. If you were just a rock n roll banger the PX-3 and its predecessors would have worked. But they are cheap. The 5s may be revolutionary but I've been reading the Privia praise for a longtime and have become immune to it. If you don't want one I won't fault you for it. Most keyboard players really do not want a close piano simulation.

 

I've had 3 Casio synths. PDS could sound a lot like FM but the architecture was laid out in a way that made sense and I could program them. The CZ series was good stuff.

 

Maybe the 5s does feel different. The local store quit bringing in new Casio stock so I have not played one. I don't care about the name. But while everyone was raving about prior Privia I couldn't figure out what was so great. My Kawais kicked their ass. I liked the Roland FP-7f much better. Yamaha CPs also.

[ITGITC]

I understand what you mean. It's an interesting marketing decision to keep the Casio name on more recent professional grade MI products when the brand has a mixed history of calculators, watches, and cheap keyboards but also far more substantial CZ synth line.

Yup.

 

Plus, it's not what we, as musicians, think.

 

It's that your audience knows Casio for cheap, toy keyboards.

 

Nobody told them that Casio is now making pro boards.

 

Put a piece of black tape over the name.

 

Tom

 

 

[CEB]

My M-16 was a Mattel. I was told later it is not the same entity as the toy company.

[Joe Muscara]

Casio! Anything else is just a toy.

[The Piano Man]

I understand what you mean. It's an interesting marketing decision to keep the Casio name on more recent professional grade MI products when the brand has a mixed history of calculators, watches, and cheap keyboards but also far more substantial CZ synth line.

 

It's like the car business. Honda, Toyota and Nissan created Acura, Lexus and Infiniti for premium cars. Big success. VW tried to keep their badge on the $80,000 Phaeton. Big failure. Hyundai has the $60,000 Equus that isn't selling anywhere near as well as it's Europe or Japan based counterparts. It might be a great car but many buyers want to see a premium brand on a premium car.

 

What if the the PX-5S only had Privia on the case? A piece of black tape will do that.

 

 

 

 

You make a very good point about branding.

[The Piano Man]

In fact, I think Casio should release the follow up to the PX5 and make the following changes...

 

- add an internal power supply with kettle lead slot

- add xlr outputs

- change the design to all black

- brand it with a new name on the back (not Privia but something like that to set it apart from the calculators and home keyboards and to make it clear it is a pro board)

 

 

Who wouldn't buy that board

[mikecorbett]

Yeah, I think its a valid point. The problem with having Casio on the back of the board is nothing to do with the board itself, its to do with the hotel manager/bride/agent who is watching you set up your gear. They are ALL familiar with the Casio brand and associate it with cheap, home keyboards. So some of them will probably make a judgement call as soon as they see your keyboard and think "this guy is an amateur". That is NOT good!

 

I recently read a discussion on another forum about acoustic piano vs DP in an Irish traditional music setting. One poster chimed in (paraphrase)" I dont mind if a good musician turns up with a keyboard, it will probably sound better than the old beat up piano in the corner. Just as long as they dont show up with a Casio!"

 

Thats a case in point in my mind, I too wish Casio would rebrand for the sake of the punters and people hiring us keyboard players

[The Piano Man]

Indeed, with a rebrand, you could play the thing, everyone would hear how good it is and then you could mention "it's actually made by Casio but is part of their high end "MARTIN" range, named after the guy that revolutionised their stage piano line"

 

Okay, so Martin Audio might not be so happy but still, something along those lines...

 

Add that to the internal power supply and the xlr outputs to keep the sound guys happy and the reputation would soar

[LX88]

I might not buy it if the sound engine displays the same properties as I am hearing on the PX-350.

 

Several owners have commented on the midrange plunkiness. I also have a few issues with the bass tones on that board (the 350).

 

I am hoping these issues are resolvable to some degree due to the extensive editing capabilities of the PX-5S. I still haven't seen one in a store near me. But if I hear that plunk one more time, I'll be heading for the nearest Yamaha - even if it is a P-35.

[timwat]

 

Plus, it's not what we, as musicians, think.

 

It's that your audience knows Casio for cheap, toy keyboards.

 

Nobody told them that Casio is now making pro boards.

 

Put a piece of black tape over the name.

 

Tom

 

 

Tom is spot on. Which is one reason I gaff over ALL product names on the back of ALL my boards. The Kronos, the Nord Wave, every Kurzweil and the Privia PX3 all get equal treatment with black gaffer's tape. No playing favorites, it's equal opportunity here. It looks a lot cleaner to the audience.

 

But also, and here's the real benefit I've found - the audience doesn't get to mentally go to that "Man, that Kurzweil sounds great..." place - instead, they get to go to "Man, that guy is playing some nice stuff..." place.

 

I've said it before on this forum - no, I'm not 100% satisfied with the AP in my PX3, especially at home, in isolation, over my studio monitors.

 

But on the gig, I've lost count how many times other piano players in the audience have come up, said they were astounded how real it sounded, and could I please tell them what board I'm using? Was it a Yamaha or Kurzweil or Roland or....? And that's over small inexpensive powered speakers, or sometimes through (gasp) a Roland KC300.

 

I started the gaff thing because of playing in church. But it provides some real advantages in audience perception on the gig nowadays.

[MuzikTeechur]

I have a Casio WK-7500 that I picked up for $125 because a pawn shop owner had the same "Casio=cheap" mentality. Love that thing although I've never gigged with it (I'd cover the name plate if I did).

Regarding silver-colored keyboards and judgments by others: Had a rehearsal one time and instead of lugging all my gig boards in, I was just using what I had around my music room. I had a Yamaha stage piano on bottom (no horns), and an M-Audio 49-key controller up top into my MacBook, playing the horns in Garage Band.

Bass player complained that the horns "out of that cheap toy keyboard" sounded like ass. Instead of explaining the magic of MIDI, I moved the MIDI plug to the Yamaha and changed to the next patch up on Garage Band (which was just a slight variation of the previous sound).

Bass player: "Now THAT'S more like it - you can hear the difference!"

 

Perception is everything.

[CEB]

They are cheap. They don't sell any boards over a grand. Cheap is good.

[Mike Martin]

They are cheap. They don't sell any boards over a grand. Cheap is good.

 

Sure we do. Celviano digital pianos are way over a grand.

[MuzikTeechur]

I'm reminded of a scene from an old movie ("Defending Your Life") in which a man had to defend his pattern of non-risk taking in order to be admitted to the afterlife. The alternative was reincarnation.

[video:youtube]

[Mike Martin]

My $.02

 

Casio Computer Company was founded by the three Kashio brothers. The called the company Casio because they wanted it to be easier for people all over the world to say the name. Their experience in electronics, manufacturing, miniaturization and more has lead some very significant advancements in the last 57 years. Every time I look the history of products they've made, I'm amazed.

 

Casio started in musical instruments in 1980. One of the three Kashio brothers was a musician and wanted to take their experience in electronics and make instruments that everyone could enjoy. They invented the portable keyboard category with the CT-201.

 

If this forum existed in 1985, I don't think anyone here would be complaining about the Casio name on a CZ-series synthesizer. Professionals and amateurs alike used them.

 

Fast forward to today. Kazuo Kashio is still running Casio. Casio is the second largest keyboard company in the world and you're asking him basically to take his name off the products his company is building. This isn't likely.

 

People mention audience perception. Does your audience know Korg or Nord? Is it likely they owned a Casio product over the last 57 years? From my personal experience I worked for Yamaha for several years. I have a leather jacket that says Motif on it and has the Yamaha logo. Never once did anyone outside of the music industry associate that jacket with a musical instrument. It was boating, golf carts, stereos and motorcycles.

[The Piano Man]

Fast forward to today. Kazuo Kashio is still running Casio. Casio is the second largest keyboard company in the world and you're asking him basically to take his name off the products his company is building. This isn't likely.

 

Then why did the PX3 just say "Privia"?

[Mike Martin]

Fast forward to today. Kazuo Kashio is still running Casio. Casio is the second largest keyboard company in the world and you're asking him basically to take his name off the products his company is building. This isn't likely.

 

Then why did the PX3 just say "Privia"?

 

Actually all of the pianos in that generation only said Privia on the back and many people believe that was the worst thing we could have done to the Casio brand. I doubt we will see that again.

[Josh Paxton]

TPM, I'm trying to figure out what the point of this thread is. It kinda seems like you're admitting to doing something you know to be silly and counterproductive so that everyone here will pile on to tell you just how silly and counterproductive it is, thereby helping you break yourself of such behavior. If that is, in fact, your goal, I suspect you'll get the response you wanted.

 

Mike, to respond to your point about public perception: In my personal experience in the trenches, it is regrettably true that there is still a certain percentage of non-musicians who equate Casio with cheap, crummy-sounding toy keyboards, and who, when they hear a board that sounds bad, will say it "sounds like a Casio." I wouldn't say I run into such people often, but it does happen. For the record, when it does I always set them straight and inform them that Casio now makes some very good gear that pros are happy to use, including me. And I think Casio is doing exactly what they need to do to shed that stigma. But the battle isn't won yet.

 

Gotta run, as I'm on my way out the door to a gig. With a Casio Privia. Yes, really.

[Mike Martin]

Funny, i could have written this many years ago as:

Unfortunately, I still see the name "Casio" "Korg" or "Roland". I know it's just a name, and I know I can't justify what I'm saying on any rational grounds, but I don't want a Casio Korg or Roland.

 

If that exact keyboard said Korg or Roland Moog or Sequential Circuits, I think I would have ordered one by now.

So companies whose products we think of as "toys" do eventually end up as accepted major players, it just takes time and some flexibility in our own thinking.

Just some random Saturday morning thoughts,

- Jimbo

 

Just one last thought on the subject. If we hadn't made many of those "toys", we wouldn't be able to build an 88 note 24lb stage piano today that is under $1,000. It is Casio's experience in engineering and manufacturing that makes this possible.

[Mike Martin]

For the record, when it does I always set them straight and inform them that Casio now makes some very good gear that pros are happy to use, including me. And I think Casio is doing exactly what they need to do to shed that stigma. But the battle isn't won yet.

 

Gotta run, as I'm on my way out the door to a gig. With a Casio Privia. Yes, really.

 

Thanks!

[HammondDave]

Really... The only company name that should be on the back of keyboards is "Hammond"...

 

But seriously, who cares what the hell it says there? No matter what I play, the leader of my band introduces me as "And on Hammond organ... ". That is what I am playing... even though the product happens to be a Nord, Mojo, Diversi, or a Hammond/Suzuki...

[mate stubb]

I don't get this at all.

 

I'm not about to pander to any uninformed audience bias to help me decide what instruments to play - whether it's buying a HS just for the name to make people think I am cool, or avoiding playing a great instrument because people might think I'm not.

 

Life as a musician is crappy enough due to all the extraneous bull crap involved. Play the instruments that speak to you and allow you to do your job, fashionable or not.

 

If someone comes to my gig and smirks about my keyboard brand, I'll blow them away with the music coming out of it, and if they ask I'll educate them about companies that innovate and companies that trade on past success.

 

And I don't wear designer jeans or sneakers either. Get off my lawn, etc etc.....