Losendoskeys Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Losendoskeys, I don't see how you can say transpose does not work properly....real organs don't transpose, ergo, what is the definition of "properly"? WesG The SK2 is an electronic instrument, dare I even say synthesiser? So the SK2 emulates a Hammond B3 as purely as it can, EXCEPT it has a whole heap of features that are nothing to do with a "real" B3 - MIDI being a big for instance. So what I am saying is that the SK2 is not copying something that was called "transpose" in a B3 - it is a non-Hammond feature. So it doesn't need to follow the convention related to the tonewheels whereby the signal generated "runs out" above a certain frequency, as in the case I mentioned above. My view is that if it transposes the signal from the base frequency of the key in the usual +1 octave/+2 octave increments, then it should produce a signal at whatever increment of octave is being applied. Right now it doesn't. R Alan Yamaha CP70B;Roland XP30/AXSynth/Fantom/FA76/XR;Hammond XK3C SK2; Korg Kronos 73;ProSoloist Rack+; ARP ProSoloist; Mellotron M4000D; GEM Promega2; Hohner Pianet N, Roland V-Grand,Voyager XL, RMI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3Nut Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 The reason for that is the "digital tone wheels" are fixed. The virtual tone generator can be master-tuned, but the virtual generator itself doesn't transpose. It's the nature of the VASE III architecture, best I can gather. --- Todd A. Phipps "...no, I'm not a Hammondoholic...I can stop anytime..." http://www.facebook.com/b3nut ** http://www.blueolives.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losendoskeys Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Aha - understood. In which case where is Jim when you need him? Yamaha CP70B;Roland XP30/AXSynth/Fantom/FA76/XR;Hammond XK3C SK2; Korg Kronos 73;ProSoloist Rack+; ARP ProSoloist; Mellotron M4000D; GEM Promega2; Hohner Pianet N, Roland V-Grand,Voyager XL, RMI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 My view is that if it transposes the signal from the base frequency of the key in the usual +1 octave/+2 octave increments, then it should produce a signal at whatever increment of octave is being applied. Right now it doesn't. R Alan I think there may be a difference between transposing and octave shifting. What you want it to do is transpose (actually change) the frequencies up an octave or more rather than just a few semi-tones for tuning/key convenience. So for example, you would like it to transpose the frequencies from 8', 4', 2', 1' (using just the white drawbars) to 2', 1', 6", 3". You can transpose the SK +/- 6 semi-tones. The octave shift doesn't transpose (increase/decrease) the frequencies, it changes where they are played on the keyboard. This is a convenience feature that ties in with being able to split the keyboard into 2 sections and have each section of the keybed cover the needed portion of the manual being played. So for example, in the SK's, you could transpose up 1 & 1/2 semi-tones and octave shift down 2 octaves. Edit: When octave shifting up beyond a drawbar's range on the SK's the notes just keep repeating (folding back) rather than dropping out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Alright mate, I gotcha covered. Just today I got an L122 working for a client and took the time to figure out the CLARINET, TRUMPET, preset patches on the upper manual. B3Nut is correct that the organ at the front of Can-Utility and the Coastliners is the CLARINET preset. I didn't realize that the same preset is on my Hammond C2 (on the lower manual reverse preset keys) at home until I returned to make sure the drawbar settings I figured out on the L122 match on a Hammond console. Sure enough, they do. So, here's the registration for the clarinet: Clarinet: 007 073 310 Put that into your SK2 and you should be able to go all the way up. Always remember, don't use the 1st drawbar if you want the organ to go higher. The other preset on the L122 is the TRUMPET preset, which I think Tony may also use in that song (but maybe not). This is also in the presets on my Hammond C2 (on the upper manual). My best guess at this setting is: Trumpet: 006 666 550 After Peter sings "Where they felllllllllll..." he switches to the full organ preset, which is something like this: Full organ (with 16' and 8'): 558 866 444 For the appeggiated solo bit after that, push those first two drawbars in: Full organ: 008 866 444 When the chords come back in under Steve Hackett's solo, pull those first two drawbars back out: 558 866 444 (same as above) Hope that helps. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Just found this: http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/StandardPresets I was pretty close on that clarinet registration! Not bad for doing it by ear. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesG Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 The L100 presets are Also documented in the service manual, IIRC right on the schematic where the switches are shown. BTW FWIW IIRC the preset switches only have even-numbered drawbar positions available to them on the L100. Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3 Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9 Roland: VR-09, RD-800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losendoskeys Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 Alright mate, I gotcha covered. Just today I got an L122 working for a client and took the time to figure out the CLARINET, TRUMPET, preset patches on the upper manual. B3Nut is correct that the organ at the front of Can-Utility and the Coastliners is the CLARINET preset. I didn't realize that the same preset is on my Hammond C2 (on the lower manual reverse preset keys) at home until I returned to make sure the drawbar settings I figured out on the L122 match on a Hammond console. Sure enough, they do. So, here's the registration for the clarinet: Clarinet: 007 073 310 Put that into your SK2 and you should be able to go all the way up. Always remember, don't use the 1st drawbar if you want the organ to go higher. The other preset on the L122 is the TRUMPET preset, which I think Tony may also use in that song (but maybe not). This is also in the presets on my Hammond C2 (on the upper manual). My best guess at this setting is: Trumpet: 006 666 550 After Peter sings "Where they felllllllllll..." he switches to the full organ preset, which is something like this: Full organ (with 16' and 8'): 558 866 444 For the appeggiated solo bit after that, push those first two drawbars in: Full organ: 008 866 444 When the chords come back in under Steve Hackett's solo, pull those first two drawbars back out: 558 866 444 (same as above) Hope that helps. Jim It does and thanks so much for your hard work! I had already tried B3Nut and WesG suggestion and that seemed pretty close, so I'll happily give this mod a try. I have some "full organ" settings already which are "by ear" or from other suggestions so I'll give it all a go! Cheers. Alan Yamaha CP70B;Roland XP30/AXSynth/Fantom/FA76/XR;Hammond XK3C SK2; Korg Kronos 73;ProSoloist Rack+; ARP ProSoloist; Mellotron M4000D; GEM Promega2; Hohner Pianet N, Roland V-Grand,Voyager XL, RMI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I think the sound starts earlier, around 0:38, and I think it's a mellotron -- hear the breathy tone, like a recorder. It sounds to me like that same sound just jumps up. In any case, no doubt you can use the clarinet Hammond preset. Regarding transpose: One way to think of it is "same sound, but an octave up or down". But another way to think of it that is different but equally valid is "same sound, but played by a key that's an octave lower or higher", and that's what the SK2 (or any good clone) would have to implement. It's also how ROMplers transpose. They don't transpose by playing back stuff at double speed (which would sound very different than transposing!) They transpose by shifting the key map. The key map naturally ends at some point (usually the top piano key, but often lower). When you transpose, you don't get a new tonal range, you just get a different key map to play the same tonal range. Here's another analogy. If you're playing a mandolin patch and use transpose to play it lower, you don't want it to sound like a mandola or mandocello, you want it to sound like a mandolin, but played at a different spot on the keyboard. Transposing to change the pitch range of the original just isn't how it works on most keyboards. The best exception I can think of is a synthesizer (analog or virtual analog), but even then there might be an upper limit to the oscillators, over which you just can't go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losendoskeys Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 I think the sound starts earlier, around 0:38, and I think it's a mellotron -- hear the breathy tone, like a recorder. It sounds to me like that same sound just jumps up. In any case, no doubt you can use the clarinet Hammond preset. Jeff Thanks for the transpose thoughts. On "the sound" it is the Hammond Clarinet though it actually starts at 0.22 - the sound at 0.38 is the same sound. And Jim is about right with the "full organ" - Banks used 6688442200 a lot with 2nd Harmonic percussion, as in the solo in this track. I love it - thanks for helping with those drawbars! Yamaha CP70B;Roland XP30/AXSynth/Fantom/FA76/XR;Hammond XK3C SK2; Korg Kronos 73;ProSoloist Rack+; ARP ProSoloist; Mellotron M4000D; GEM Promega2; Hohner Pianet N, Roland V-Grand,Voyager XL, RMI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losendoskeys Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Thanks to everyone who helped me with the SK2 drawbars. Here is our first outing of Can-Utility and the Coast Liners - a bit rough but hopefully you can hear the drawbars are spot on! [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdrzkSeBOtU Yamaha CP70B;Roland XP30/AXSynth/Fantom/FA76/XR;Hammond XK3C SK2; Korg Kronos 73;ProSoloist Rack+; ARP ProSoloist; Mellotron M4000D; GEM Promega2; Hohner Pianet N, Roland V-Grand,Voyager XL, RMI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.