Clonewheel Tone

[Al Coda]

I basically agree with your post, except that I think there is a "sonic separation" benefit to be had in sending the organ out to its own separate output. And I'd say you're right in it not being because of hardware issues (DSP or sharing the same processor), but because the sound will no longer share the Master Effects (i.e. reverb, EQ, compression) with the rest of your split/layered sounds. (You also have the option to then do separate external processing on the sound, play withs its own external mixer settings, even send it to its own amp.)

 

It´s simpler ...

 

Definition of engine and model 1st.

In Kronos (and other machines) the "engine" is the processor and what most people call "engines" here, like "synth engine","organ-engine" or "epiano-engine" etc., that´s the software-models and the ROMpler,- all processed by the same engine,- the CPU.

 

2nd,- there´s only real output separation when there are dedicated DA converters existing in the circuitry and for each stereo-output pair or mono single outputs and the main stereo output pair.

Unfortunately, most pieces of gear don´t offer that luxury and multiplex from main output converters.

Sometimes phase issues come in addition.

So, the only benefit is routing, not sound quality.

Multiplexed "aux" or single outputs share the same DA and Bit-Depth the main output uses.

Now it depends how it´s handled in Kronos,- I myself I have no clue.

 

Personally, I´d prefer a clone offering a real good Leslie sim so I don´t have to buy another piece of gear like the Vent and need more cables.

A multipin output to connect to real Leslie cabinets is welcome because these can be hired at backline rentals when needed.

 

I think the concept of the HX3 engine is great and the now again stereo leslie sim sounds very good.

Because it´s a very small company doing all the developement, I wait a bit.

It´s good already but will be much better soon.

I find the MAG Custom Organ using HX3 very tempting and it will come.

 

A.C.

[Delaware Dave]

When the HOAX gets its sh*t together with getting the bugs out and provides a self-contained drawbar control unit that will probably be the next purchase; for now I'll continue to use my newly acquired XM2/XMc2 or Voce with the Vent.

[Bill W]

 

2nd,- there´s only real output separation when there are dedicated DA converters existing in the circuitry and for each stereo-output pair or mono single outputs and the main stereo output pair.

Unfortunately, most pieces of gear don´t offer that luxury and multiplex from main output converters.

Sometimes phase issues come in addition.

So, the only benefit is routing, not sound quality.

Multiplexed "aux" or single outputs share the same DA and Bit-Depth the main output uses.

Now it depends how it´s handled in Kronos,- I myself I have no clue.

 

A.C.

 

I'll go along with this assessment. One thing I'd recommend is not to route the CX3 through the MFX slots with other things. If I want a reverb on a CX3 sound, I'll use an IFX slot and not send it through whatever MFX I have set up that might be processing other sounds at the same time. I never use the TFX slots.

[Bossbandbob]

I really like the organ tones of my VR-09. The past few gigs I have received compliments on my Roland "Hammond" sound. With the tweaking I have done, it fits very well in a Rock band mix and it is full sounding IMO. Very good Leslie sim too. The keybed works fine for me.

The OD is OK until past 1/4 on the knob where it gets pretty bad, but strangely enough the OD sounds quite good on several of the presets.

[vanderSchoot]

When the HOAX gets its sh*t together with getting the bugs out and provides a self-contained drawbar control unit that will probably be the next purchase; for now I'll continue to use my newly acquired XM2/XMc2 or Voce with the Vent.

I have HX3 built inside an old xb2.

It is totally bug free for over 7 months and operates flawlessly.

 

For 900.00 I purchased a clone that I can't believe does not sell in the US, despite the fact that it is only available in a module and hardware print.

I have been to winter NAMM being an exhibitor and checked out everything during my 4 days over there.

 

Nothing comes near, HX3 is worth its money at least a couple of times.I also purchased a leslie 860 in mint condition for 500.00....for 1400.00 one cannot buy an electro 4 or sk1 and the difference is freaking huge !

 

I have nothing to do with HX3, but I can't help feeling somewhat dissapointed, how in the world do they not concore the entire organ world right now ?

And why do people hesitate buying their module ? I think ocean beach drawbars will work with HX3.

 

I guess I will never understand potential buyers I guess, every single owner of HX3 has said the same thing....the very best ever in clonewheel world !

[Baldwin Funster]

People don'tbuy the hoax because you can only see the products on a Germany website that is very confusing to make out. I tried to check them out several times . Make a board that drops in an xk1 and I'm in.

[Al Coda]

I have HX3 built inside an old xb2.

It is totally bug free for over 7 months and operates flawlessly.

 

Yes, the thing is awesome, but you don´t have the mk3 hardware.

I think there will be a firmware upgrade.

Also, you have the XB2 kit and not the expander module.

The issues I mentioned were expander´s display and output related,-

someone reported drawbar settings not correctly displayed and some output routing issues together w/ the reverb.

That´s what they wanted to fix in firmware 3.6.

 

Latest news is (in german),- HX3 mk3 EXpander is ready and ships,- followed in a few days by XB-2 mk3 kit.

clonk

 

English site isn´t updated up to now.

 

New is, you get already assembled boards only including all the licences,- no DIY assembling anymore,- or the expander module and the XB2 kit.

 

Now I´m curious how long it lasts until we see a working MAG Custom Organ w/ the HX3 mk3 inside.

 

A.C.

 

[Al Coda]

People don'tbuy the hoax because you can only see the products on a Germany website that is very confusing to make out. I tried to check them out several times . Make a board that drops in an xk1 and I'm in.

 

It sells pretty well, there are many pre-orders for the mk3 expander b.t.w..

I don´t think the intention is the making of several different replacement boards for all kind of organ clones out there.

You can buy a standard board, already assembled and w/ licences, then throw it in you XK-1.

But w/ the XK-1, it´s up to you to figure out how to use your existing drawbars, buttons, switches w/ the board and the display won´t be unused then.

Not an easy task though as also depending on if you want it to use w/ internal MIDI (easier) or keycontacts and haptics directly connected to the electronics using Fatar Scan boards.

 

A.C.

[Craig MacDonald]

The problem with lack of "sonic separation" is probably because it's all coming from the same dsp chip in the Kronos.

 

Really ?

In the Kronos works no DSP chip,- it´s the Intel Atom 1.66 GHz dual core processor (CPU not DSP) on a cheap industrial PC mobo and AFAIK, that´s the same processor/mobo combo you find in your beloved Crumar MOJO.

In fact, Kronos could sound like a MOJO,- but doesn´t.

 

Kronos has the CX3 engine but isn´t that specialized on organ as the Crumar MOJO is,- that´s all.

Guido´s MOJO organ engine is simply better.

You won´t "separate" any engines by sending something to separate outputs.

 

A.C.

 

A.C.

 

I suppose I should have used the term "D to A" converter rather than DSP chip.. but my point stands.. despite there being 9 different engines in the Kronos, it's all combined at the output.. and even if you use 3 different engines to produce sound sounds they all have a certain "character" to them. For the record, I think that this is less obvious in the Kronos than any other synth I have used.. So we agree that we won't get good sonic separation of these engines simply by sending them to different outputs, because it's still the same D to A converter... However, IF you send them to separate outputs and process them differently I think you can improve the sonic separation.. for example sending the CX3 engine on a separate output to a ventilator and send an analog synth to a different output and on to a bit crusher or other effect... I have done this with my Kronos, using a Ventilator on the CX3 engine, and the difference in the sense of "separation" is noticeable (at least it seems that way to me).. That said, I recognize that this is rather subjective and the Ventilator is a better leslie sim, and maybe it's entirely in my imagination.

 

With respect to the CX3 vs the Mojo.. There is nothing stopping Korg from completely rewriting the CX3 engine, in which case there's no reason why it couldn't compete with the Mojo, however their updates have been exactly that.. just updates, they haven't built a new CX3 engine.. so they are limited by the original architecture of the CX3.. I think that the Mojo architecture is much better and with every release of the Mojo, it just continues to improve.. and thankfully the updates come out very frequently on the Mojo!

[allan_evett]

 

The HX-3 does look a little more promising - with the updated info on www.keyboardpartner.de. But control-wise there still seems to be a lot of jumping through hoops I'd need to do; a drawbar-included unit is still vaporware, at this point. The KeyB Exp is still under consideration - though I've been trying to keep the price point around $1K.

 

The VK-8m, Voce V5, etc. have been discussed as options. But there's a particular tone possessed by the HX-3, KeyB, Hammond clones, and - to a slightly lesser degree - the VR-09 that just isn't present in those modules. Haven't heard it in the Nord Stage, either. The Kronos gets very close - and will work fine on gigs where that particular keyboard is practical.

For use with the JP-50, etc., It seems an XM-2 / XM-2c combination would work out well; from what I understand, Jim Alfredson's drawbar set can be recreated in that. But trying to find one used is difficult, and whatever new stock remaining is definitely not on sale. So one would need to found for a steal.

 

[Baldwin Funster]

Jims tone wheel set CANNOT go in the XM2. Like the XK1 the individual tone wheels can't be adjusted. That's the main reason i dumped mine.

[solpincus]

I played a VK88 about 4 years ago, and i felt the same.