Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Clonewheel Tone


allan_evett

Recommended Posts

The Mojo has virtual tonewheel sets representing the characters of 20 different Hammonds, and you can make your own. You can also make your own on the Hammond XK-3C and SK series.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 71
  • Created
  • Last Reply
The Mojo has virtual tonewheel sets representing the characters of 20 different Hammonds, and you can make your own. You can also make your own on the Hammond XK-3C and SK series.

"Make your own".. how involved is that process?

 

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mojo has virtual tonewheel sets representing the characters of 20 different Hammonds, and you can make your own. You can also make your own on the Hammond XK-3C and SK series.

"Make your own".. how involved is that process?

Im about to find out, Im spending the day doing some tonewheel tweaking on my sk2. I want to try and get is as close as I can to my A100 . Ive owned many hammonds in my years, including B3's, but my A100 / 147 sounds killer to me. I have to say, for the sound and feel for an organ, cant beat the Sk series, where I am a little disappointed in the Sk is the piano sounds, combined with the feel of the keybed for piano stuff, I think Nord has the edge on that point, but if its mostly organ you play with a few piano or other sounds, cant beat the Sk , if its mostly piano with some organ, cant beat the Nord. A lot of players in Chicago use the Nord's, I cringe a little when hearing the Hammond stuff, but perk right up when hearing the Rhodes or wurli sounds....

"Ive been playing Hammond since long before anybody paid me to play one, I didn't do it to be cool, I didnt do it to make a statement......I just liked it "

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

The Mojo, from all that is offered onboard, seems to be the ultimate clonewheel - especially in terms of sonic flexibility. From the few years I owned an M3 / Leslie 122, and from the handful of sessions I've covered that involved a vintage Hammond, the Mojo sounds like a top contender for realism. But I can't justify the cost or rig space for dedicated clonewheel keyboard. And an all-in-one, high end, clonewheel tabletop module is not available in the market at present. The KeyB Expander seems to be circling the drain, and there isn't a Mojo tabletop made, to my knowledge.

 

As Jim Alfredson has done a set of custom programs for the SK Series, I wonder if anyone has done custom programs for the Stage 2 organs. While I understand basic drawbar, percussion, C/V, and rotary sim concepts, there are certainly other factors that come into play (effects, compression, etc.). As those relate to organ sound, I still feel somewhat a neophyte - having played ROMpler organs up until about ten years ago. I can edit synths capably, and dial-in digital piano tones, but advanced clonewheel programming still feels a bit new.

Also would be great to see an EX option offered for the Stage 2 - as it's now in its third year. Perhaps that would have the latest organ engine updates found in the Nord C2D.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mojo has virtual tonewheel sets representing the characters of 20 different Hammonds, and you can make your own. You can also make your own on the Hammond XK-3C and SK series.

"Make your own".. how involved is that process?

Im about to find out, Im spending the day doing some tonewheel tweaking on my sk2. I want to try and get is as close as I can to my A100 . Ive owned many hammonds in my years, including B3's, but my A100 / 147 sounds killer to me. I have to say, for the sound and feel for an organ, cant beat the Sk series, where I am a little disappointed in the Sk is the piano sounds, combined with the feel of the keybed for piano stuff, I think Nord has the edge on that point, but if its mostly organ you play with a few piano or other sounds, cant beat the Sk , if its mostly piano with some organ, cant beat the Nord. A lot of players in Chicago use the Nord's, I cringe a little when hearing the Hammond stuff, but perk right up when hearing the Rhodes or wurli sounds....

I think Jim Alfredson, is your friend regarding this.. oh, and that extremely knowledgable fellow Jimmcs49 he is also all over things Suzuki, very nice fellow as well.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mojo, from all that is offered onboard, seems to be the ultimate clonewheel ... But I can't justify the cost or rig space for dedicated clonewheel keyboard. And an all-in-one, high end, clonewheel tabletop module is not available in the market at present. The KeyB Expander seems to be circling the drain, and there isn't a Mojo tabletop made, to my knowledge.

True. Roland still offers the VK-8M, but you wouldn't call that a high end model anymore, same with the Hammond XM-2/XMC-2 combo (which, being two piece, doesn't really qualify as "all in one" either).

 

The closest thing to a Mojo without the cost or rig space requirements would be a Hamichord EXP-Edition with some keyboard (or fader/drawbar accessory) that could provide the real-time controls, but even that has been discontinued.

 

As Jim Alfredson has done a set of custom programs for the SK Series, I wonder if anyone has done custom programs for the Stage 2 organs.

The Nord doesn't offer the level of tonewheel-by-tonewheel editability than the Mojo and recent Hammonds do.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mojo has virtual tonewheel sets representing the characters of 20 different Hammonds, and you can make your own. You can also make your own on the Hammond XK-3C and SK series.

"Make your own".. how involved is that process?

 

I own a vintage Hammond that screams and wanted to replicate that sound using customized tonewheels in the XK3. It involves measuring the peak-to-peak amplitude of each and every harmonic (all 91) on the vintage Hammond with an oscilloscope (dB meters don't have fine enough resolution), while observing the same harmonic on the XK3 and adjusting the tonewheel level to match the vintaj item.

 

When I finished the XK3 was damn close to my vintage Hammond and I was a happy man, because that organ was getting really worn from road travel and I wanted to retire it (and replicate it) before I lost that sound.

 

If you have the right tools it's a lot easier, otherwise you're just poking in the dark. You can probably use a software oscilloscope for the job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mojo, from all that is offered onboard, seems to be the ultimate clonewheel ... But I can't justify the cost or rig space for dedicated clonewheel keyboard. And an all-in-one, high end, clonewheel tabletop module is not available in the market at present. The KeyB Expander seems to be circling the drain, and there isn't a Mojo tabletop made, to my knowledge.

True. Roland still offers the VK-8M, but you wouldn't call that a high end model anymore, same with the Hammond XM-2/XMC-2 combo (which, being two piece, doesn't really qualify as "all in one" either).

 

The closest thing to a Mojo without the cost or rig space requirements would be a Hamichord EXP-Edition with some keyboard (or fader/drawbar accessory) that could provide the real-time controls, but even that has been discontinued.

 

As Jim Alfredson has done a set of custom programs for the SK Series, I wonder if anyone has done custom programs for the Stage 2 organs.

The Nord doesn't offer the level of tonewheel-by-tonewheel editability than the Mojo and recent Hammonds do.

 

Well that appears to be that, Scott. Much as the idea of a notebook computer on the gig is a PITA ( extra stuff to set up, plus the safety issue), it may be the only solution that gets beyond the Stage 2 organ limitations - at least until the XM-3 is released :laugh:

Rig-wise, that would leave the Stage 2 as a rather expensive electric piano with a small, synth engine - as I've developed a case of DFS (Dave Ferris Syndrome) regarding the pianos. That CP4 is looking better and better - especially with those world-class Rhodes and Wurli's onboard..

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Much as the idea of a notebook computer on the gig is a PITA ( extra stuff to set up, plus the safety issue), it may be the only solution that gets beyond the Stage 2 organ limitations - at least until the XM-3 is released :laugh:

Rig-wise, that would leave the Stage 2 as a rather expensive electric piano with a small, synth engine - as I've developed a case of DFS (Dave Ferris Syndrome) regarding the pianos. That CP4 is looking better and better - especially with those world-class Rhodes and Wurli's onboard..

Sounds to me like a CP4 and a 15 lb SK1 would solve all your problems. Except maybe the one about the depleted bank account.

 

I know you mentioned the lack of pitch/mod wheel on the SK1 as an issue, but if you have them on your bottom board, is it that essential to have them on the upper as well? How do you need to use them (i.e. controlling what source)?

 

Or maybe the Numa Organ? Most people seem to think it's as good or better than the SK1, and it does have pitch/mod wheels (but no no-organ internal sounds)...

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Mojo has virtual tonewheel sets representing the characters of 20 different Hammonds, and you can make your own. You can also make your own on the Hammond XK-3C and SK series.

"Make your own".. how involved is that process?

 

I own a vintage Hammond that screams and wanted to replicate that sound using customized tonewheels in the XK3

 

When I finished the XK3 was damn close to my vintage Hammond and I was a happy man, because that organ was getting really worn from road travel and I wanted to retire it (and replicate it) before I lost that sound.

 

If you have the right tools it's a lot easier, otherwise you're just poking in the dark. You can probably use a software oscilloscope for the job.

 

My chance at a screaming B3 passed out of my hands long ago- belonged to Vanilla Fudge's Mark Stein. It killed , just sounded so good at ALL volumes, not just maxed out on highest octave. So .. so like, how would I, a guy who knows what that great B3 vibe feels like, how would Tee get that kind of a screamer into his current mojo????!!

You don't have ideas, ideas have you

We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 10 months later...

Resurrecting this thread about a year later. While the updated Kronos CX-3 engine is very strong, it still suffers a slight lack of sonic separation from the rest of the instrument; my gig rig dictates two keyboards, with the second tier able to cover both clonewheel and synth. The other rig issue is that, when I want to use my JP50 - second tier, the clonewheel sound and control takes a step downward. Especially for country gigs my preference is to use the Jupiter 50 for fiddle and electric violin sounds (along with a few others); but having a current, world-class tonewheel instrument is also important.

 

To keep things simple and straightforward, a drawbar-included, tabletop module seems the best solution. As Hammond has no plans to produce a module, the choices seem to be 1) Wait for the HX-3 w/drawbars unit (ETA, fall 2014); 2) order a KeyB Exp direct from KeyB in Italy. While the HOAX engine is stunning, sonically, the KeyB is available now - as per a recent email exchange with Elvio.

While an SK-1 or XK1-c could sonically solve the issue, schlepping a 3 keyboard rig is not a practical option for the gigs I'm doing. Could work when the band is the only act, but when fest season hits next year even a two keyboard rig is a load-in / set up crunch. BTW, bottom tier will stay an '88' - currently a CP4 or S90XS. Having a organ module in the rig would also allow some flexibility as to which instrument's keyboard plays the module.

 

I've not had the opportunity to play a KeyB instrument, nor an HX-3 or keyboard with the HOAX board installed. For those of you who have, what are your thoughts regarding my upcoming choice ? Also, I've never ordered an instrument shipped in from Europe - save for an effect unit where Customs costs were included in the combined unit/shipping cost. So I'm wondering what additional costs I might incur beyond the price presented; Elvio stated that the KeyB and 'bag' for the unit are a total of 990 Euro, and that for Customs charges I'm 'on my own'. So any insights offered would be most helpful. Thanks :)

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DX7 organ patch

Cheezy organ sound on "Set Them Free."

 

:smile: That made me go back and listen to the track again! The song kind of has that 80s gloss on it - a "real" B3 would have been out of place.

 

Of course, imho Sting should have done the whole song as a proper retro/old-skool soul screamer. B3 and Wurly, brass section, three Arethas singing, the works.

 

But what do I know?

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

How about this one:

 

[video:youtube]

Custom handmade clocks: www.etsy.com/shop/ClockLight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Resurrecting this thread about a year later. While the updated Kronos CX-3 engine is very strong, it still suffers a slight lack of sonic separation from the rest of the instrument

Do you mean that it is good enough for you when played alone, but lacking when made part of a split or layer? If that's the case, maybe that could be addressed using an assignable out? That should give you the same kind of flexibility a separate organ source would give you. I'm not sure, can the CX3 organ be sent to the individual outs without losing its rotary effect? If not, putting a Ventilator on that could be another way to go.

 

To keep things simple and straightforward, a drawbar-included, tabletop module seems the best solution. As Hammond has no plans to produce a module, the choices seem to be 1) Wait for the HX-3 w/drawbars unit (ETA, fall 2014); 2) order a KeyB Exp direct from KeyB in Italy.

Similarly, just to give you some other options that might have easier availability, something like a Voce module or Roland VK-8M might address the issue as well... again, using a Vent to bring those sounds up to date. But yeah, those other choices sound more exciting. ;-)

 

While an SK-1 or XK1-c could sonically solve the issue, schlepping a 3 keyboard rig is not a practical option for the gigs I'm doing.

Yeah, it's so hard to get everything you want even in two keyboards, it makes me more surprised about all the people gigging with one. ;-) I'm often tempted to bring three, but rarely do it... and there can still be compromises when I do. I most often gig with a lightweight 88 and a MOX6, and occasionally add a clonewheel, and then still might miss having a dedicated synth (which I've thought about addressing by making the clonewheel the Nord Stage 2, though I guess Kronos could be an answer there too). I've also thought about combining the functions of the lightweight 88 and the MOX6 into one board by using a MOX8, but as light as the 8 is, I'm spoiled by even lighter 88s and the lack of depth of shallow 88s that let me keep my boards closer together. It's always something...

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If tone is an issue, would there be any way you could try to play what have through a Speakeasy preamp. Are you near Chi-town. Maybe a forum brother could help set that up.

 

The Kronos has a lot going for it. I would lean toward trying the preamp before throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been using a Voce V5+ for about 5 years and have also been waiting for the XM3 to arrive. Figuring that I'll probably never see it I purchased an XM2/XMc2 from a touring organist who upgraded his rig to an SK1 and was using the XM2 as a backup. I set it up and A/B'd it to the V5+ (both through a Vent). From a raw organ tone point of view there was very little difference which shocked the hell out of me. The V/C and percussion were slightly better on the XM2. The difference is that the last 4 drawbars on the XM2 are brighter and louder. The XM2 is also much more tweakable, being able to tweak the percussion loudness and decay, the V/C chorus rate, leslie,etc. Just about everything except the digital tonewheels themselves. The Voce settings are fixed, except for overdrive, click and crosstalk (all below average sounding). The Voce with the Vent is still a viable option and dual drawbar control using a keyboard like the PC3's 9 sliders to control the lower manual drawbars is a piece of cake to setup. This might be a great option for you. I just did an open mic a week ago and a guy came up and played the Voce organ. From where I was sitting it sounded very full with the Vent. Also, the Voce/Vent combo sounds better than the XM2 and its internal leslie.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't had a XK3c open to see the circuit board but I have often wished I could buy one that had a broken keybed and gut it and make a 2 drawbar module out of it. At this point I don't see H/S coming out with a new XM unit.

FunMachine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If tone is an issue, would there be any way you could try to play what have through a Speakeasy preamp. Are you near Chi-town. Maybe a forum brother could help set that up.

 

The Kronos has a lot going for it. I would lean toward trying the preamp before throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

The Kronos is not a problem; so it's not going anywhere. As Scott and Moonglow have suggested, I'll try using it with a separate audio out to the Vent' I have that's currently racked up. Also, the Speakeasy pre idea is interesting. Back in 2004 I had a Speakeasy mono, tube-pre pedal; it added a lot to a VR-760.

While that essentially would solve the organ issue when using the Kronos for gigging, it doesn't address those times the JP50 is used instead. Bringing three, great keyboards to the gig would be a carnival of sound, and fun - until someone dictates that the big-top has to be rigged / struck within ten minutes.

 

A module used with a JP50 must have real drawbars - as the JP is definitely the UnController. As opposed to spending bigger $$ on a KeyB Exp, a used Voce V5 could work, w/the Vent'; same with a couple of other options. But an eBay search of drawbar modules turns up zilch. Seems the dried-up, module market has hit clonewheel land as well. There are more than a few of us who would like Hammond to produce a 3rd generation module; but as of the last time I spoke with Scott May, it ain't happenin'.

 

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Resurrecting this thread about a year later. While the updated Kronos CX-3 engine is very strong, it still suffers a slight lack of sonic separation from the rest of the instrument

Do you mean that it is good enough for you when played alone, but lacking when made part of a split or layer? If that's the case, maybe that could be addressed using an assignable out? That should give you the same kind of flexibility a separate organ source would give you. I'm not sure, can the CX3 organ be sent to the individual outs without losing its rotary effect? If not, putting a Ventilator on that could be another way to go.

This is exactly what I did. Using the recommendations from Busch's Kronos Blog, I slapped a Ventilator on the Kronos, and my god, the universe opened. The CX-3 offers so much control over the organ parameters that you can precisely dial in the sound to favorably interact with the Ventilator. I made adjustments to percussion volume, key click volume, C/V rate/depth, EQ, and output level. I don't do a lot of real-time tweaking of drawbars, but you can assign the faders to control drawbars, and SW1/2 to control percussion and C/V, the latter two of which I do use live.

 

The Hammond clones, IMO, still have that extra "mojo." However, with the recent improvements to the CX-3 engine, and using the Great Clone Equalizer, it comes very, very close.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Allan, I would second the idea of sending the CX3 to separate outs and adding a Ventilator or a Burn leslie sim. The problem with lack of "sonic separation" is probably because it's all coming from the same dsp chip in the Kronos. Separating the CX3 engine by sending it to separate outs, but still using the same leslie internal leslie sim, really doesn't change anything. On the other hand, using a different outboard leslie sim would make a considerable difference in the tone.. The CX3's leslie sim is improved with the new update but it's still quite up to ventilator/burn standards. So, adding a separate external leslie sim might accomplish two things.. improve sonic separation, and improve the overall tone/quality of the organ.

 

Just an aside, I've been using my Kronos for this Beaches Jazz Festival gig this weekend with a 10 piece horn band (our first performance was last night), and I have a couple of combis that include organ and piano.. one is a split with a ballsy distorted organ and acoustic piano, and the other is an electric piano with a more mellow warm organ.. Both use the same basic organ program, but it's interesting that the latter has much more sonic separation, and the combi with a more overdriven organ has less sonic separation.. the overdrive just muddies everything in the overall mix.

 

Maybe you set up one organ for solo organ and a different organ (a bit lighter on the OD) for use in combinations..?

Craig MacDonald

Hammond BV, Franken-B (A100 in a BV cabinet), Leslies 122/147/44W, Crumar Mojo, HX3 module, Korg Kronos, VR-09, Roland GAIA, Burn, Ventilator

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey AE. Hope you been well since GearFest. I had been using the XM-2 with the internal Leslie FX, but most of the time I did the registration/perc settings ahead of time and stored them as presets. Now that I bought voxpops' PC361 I've been spoiled by the live drawbar controllers. I sill like the Hammond rack sound better than the KB3 stuff, so I just use the Kurz as a controller for the XM-2 for organ parts.

 

I know what you mean about hauling 3 boards around. I did that only for a few weeks. Now I have a stand where the 6-space rack fits inside, with the MOXF8 on top and the Kurzweil on a back tier above the Yamaha. I play standing up and have both boards, the XM and Virus rack-mounts all in a vertical stack with a relatively small footprint. Works pretty well.

 

~ vonnor (Bill C.)

Gear:

Hardware: Nord Stage3, Korg Kronos 2, Novation Summit

Software: Cantabile 3, Halion Sonic 3 and assorted VST plug-ins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If tone is an issue, would there be any way you could try to play what have through a Speakeasy preamp. Are you near Chi-town. Maybe a forum brother could help set that up.

 

The Kronos has a lot going for it. I would lean toward trying the preamp before throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

 

Im in Chicago if you need to utilize my gear, I have a speakeasy pre amp, however it does go through a 147, so that would make any clone sound good, I also have a vent to test with. And you can compare it to a 63 B3 into a 147 or 122 for sound comparison.

"Ive been playing Hammond since long before anybody paid me to play one, I didn't do it to be cool, I didnt do it to make a statement......I just liked it "

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking of the vr-09, I just picked up a used VR700 (same or very similar organ tone) with a wheeled case for 699...have to wait a week to get it (grr) and it means I have to sell my beloved virus b (I play organ way more than synth). I've said before: Guitar Center used has some really bad deals on it....but sometimes there's good deals that pop up. Shipping $12 and a 30-day local return, can't beat it.

 

Anyway, my buddy has the older 760 vcombo and we A/B'd it against a Korg cx3 I had and later my pc361. The Roland was very *different* from those boards...not really better or worse on its own (to my non-real-hammond-playing ears) but just different. It had a thicker and more "wooly" sound if that makes sense. We both play rock and to me the Roland organ sits very well with rock guitars, at least going by his gigs and some recordings I've mixed of multitracks from his gigs. I get the feeling it may not fare as well on a more exposed trio gig (example one of the hammond sk1 demo videos) but hell my playing wouldn't fare well either!

 

While I was aiming toward (probably) a better sound and (definitely) less weight in a Nord or SK-1, there's no way I'd be able to get either for anywhere close to $699....and I prefer the key feel of the VR700 to either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking of the vr-09, I just picked up a used VR700 (same or very similar organ tone)

...

Anyway, my buddy has the older 760 vcombo and we A/B'd it against a Korg cx3 I had and later my pc361.

...

We both play rock and to me the Roland organ sits very well

The 760/700 will probably sound better than the VR-09 for rock because of better overdrive.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking of the vr-09, I just picked up a used VR700 (same or very similar organ tone)

...

Anyway, my buddy has the older 760 vcombo and we A/B'd it against a Korg cx3 I had and later my pc361.

...

We both play rock and to me the Roland organ sits very well

The 760/700 will probably sound better than the VR-09 for rock because of better overdrive.

 

Good to know! The main reason I'm excited is having the nice action and the drawbars to try to improve my woeful organ playing...heck I was considering getting that Studiologic waterfall controller at one point for around that price so if nothing else this becomes a nice controller (though booooo on Roland for not sending controller info on the drawbars like with the vk8).....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... the choices seem to be

1) Wait for the HX-3 w/drawbars unit (ETA, fall 2014);

2) order a KeyB Exp direct from KeyB in Italy.

 

While the HOAX engine is stunning, sonically, the KeyB is available now - as per a recent email exchange with Elvio.

 

The "HOAX", better HX3-engine is available also,- but there are parts-delivery delays for the HX3 v3 circuit board and there are some firmware bugs leftover from previous versions (3.5) which shall be fixed w/ version 3.6.

 

It´s not matter of the engine but the model.

there´s the mainboard which fits existing organs and there´s the expander module.

The next expander model w/ upgraded hardware and firmware will come w/o drawbars.

Another one w/ drawbars "is planned", but that´s rumour for me until I see it.

 

So, if you wait for some drawbar-expander-(desktop)-module,- your choice today is KeyB.

 

I've never ordered an instrument shipped in from Europe - save for an effect unit where Customs costs were included in the combined unit/shipping cost. So I'm wondering what additional costs I might incur beyond the price presented; Elvio stated that the KeyB and 'bag' for the unit are a total of 990 Euro, and that for Customs charges I'm 'on my own'. So any insights offered would be most helpful. Thanks :)

 

Oh yeah, I feel w/ ya !

There are several items I´d like to buy and don´t find a distributor here, may it be the CPS SpaceStation mkIII, a Mag Custom Organ P2 w/ HX3 engine build in, SurgeX and Brickwall products recommended by Mark Schmieder or a Signex ARC32 MIDI controllable audio patchbay.

IMO, it makes no sense ordering esoteric gear from boutique companies located elsewhere or from companies not showing a distribution in your country.

Even if the deal itself works flawlessly, the problems might come up in case of failure, may it be in the warranty period or not.

Just only my experience ...

 

A.C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with lack of "sonic separation" is probably because it's all coming from the same dsp chip in the Kronos.

 

Really ?

In the Kronos works no DSP chip,- it´s the Intel Atom 1.66 GHz dual core processor (CPU not DSP) on a cheap industrial PC mobo and AFAIK, that´s the same processor/mobo combo you find in your beloved Crumar MOJO.

In fact, Kronos could sound like a MOJO,- but doesn´t.

 

Kronos has the CX3 engine but isn´t that specialized on organ as the Crumar MOJO is,- that´s all.

Guido´s MOJO organ engine is simply better.

You won´t "separate" any engines by sending something to separate outputs.

 

A.C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You won´t "separate" any engines by sending something to separate outputs.

I basically agree with your post, except that I think there is a "sonic separation" benefit to be had in sending the organ out to its own separate output. And I'd say you're right in it not being because of hardware issues (DSP or sharing the same processor), but because the sound will no longer share the Master Effects (i.e. reverb, EQ, compression) with the rest of your split/layered sounds. (You also have the option to then do separate external processing on the sound, play withs its own external mixer settings, even send it to its own amp.)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got a chance to play a Roland VK88 about a week ago.

 

I absolutely LOVED it.

 

No , I did not use the internal leslie sim. I had the leslie on bypass.

 

The thing I liked was my " go to " sound. First three drawbars out and long percussion decay on third harmonic. C-3 chorus vibrato. No leslie.

 

In my humble opinion, The Roland VK88 shines on this setting.

 

I also love the Roland overdrive.

 

I am really thinking of going back to a VK8m module, because it sounds like what I heard from the VK88. It gives me what I want (but perhaps not you, I realize).

 

I also know that I am in the minority in loving the Roland VK engine but it works so well for what I like. That CV and slow percussion just sings to my ears.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...