Should You Practice Jazz with a Metronome?

[Jazzwee]

Rhythmic exercises by Kenny Werner (using a metronome). He's doing subdivisions like 7/2.

 

[video:youtube]

 

OOPS! Double post. I guess Jazz+ already posted this.

 

 

[I-missRichardTee]

I hope this is cool with the moderators

It is Mike's lengthy response to what he read here ,

Here is is as sent to me tonight sept 11

 

To all my fellow keyboardists, I enjoyed the lively discussion here about my metronome article and all of the varied opinions, although I didn?t agree with most of them. There was one, however, that was a bit annoying to me as follows:

I sent the article to my piano teacher, who is a decent jazz musician in his own right to say the least. In fact, like Longo, he also played with Dizzy Gillespie.

"I strongly disagree. And if he's calling me a white cat who doesn't swing, I challenge him to a duel."

First of all, in my article, the reference to white cats who can?t swing was not made by me but by Cannonball Adderley. The next part of this post that I take umbrage with is: In fact, like Longo, he also played with Dizzy Gillespie.

My relationship with Dizzy spanned a 26-year period, 9 of which were full time as his pianist and musical director. The rest were on a part time basis until his death in 1993. We toured about 48 weeks a year not to mention the countless hours I practiced with him with just trumpet and piano at his pad in Jersey. The hours I spent playing with him were in the thousands. As a matter of fact, the last notes he played on this planet were with me. My point is like Longo he also played with Dizzy Gillespie sounds like a gross exaggeration. It is very amusing to me how as soon as Dizzy died, cats started coming out of the wood work claiming they played with Dizzy Gillespie. Some of them may have hit with him once or twice because he would sit in with cats on the jazz cruises as well as other situations and sometimes he would do clinics where he would play with the local cats. These were gigs that Dizzy referred to as Take the money and run gigs. The historical lineage of Gillespie pianist as far back as let?s say Wade Legge reads something like this. Wynton Kelly; Juniou Mance; Lalo Shifferin; Kenny Baron; Mike Longo; Walter Davis Jr; and Danilo Perez. All but one of these, who was hired by a contractor, were pianists that got a call from Dizzy personally saying in effect I want you! There were a few that were only there for a hot minute because Dizzy let them go so they don?t count. The point being, I think I would know if a pianist played with Dizzy or not. I?m not suggesting that anyone a liar but someone seems to be stretching the truth a bit here. (: The last thing I will address is the statement I challenge him to a duel. This tells me that this person didn?t know Dizzy at all because he had a great disdain for anyone who expressed this type of an attitude. For one thing it is baby stuff. Diz had too much respect for this music to condone its use in this fashion. It is just like the childish and juvenile stuff you see on all the jazz chat sites with musicians expressing contempt towards each other with such sad ideas like: I play better than you, I know more about jazz than you do, My favorite piano player plays better than your favorite piano player and on an on with this jive rhetoric. Usually it is the sign of musicians who are frustrated with their own inadequacies. I personally have never exalted myself above any musician and have only competed with my own weaknesses. My reason for playing this music has always been to bring as much joy and happiness to listeners as I could. Dizzy once said his music was about absolute love for every man, woman, child, gay and lesbian on the planet. We should all learn a lesson from that. As far as the metronome is concerned I will share another Dizzy story with you. During my tenure as his pianist we went through about nine different bass players. One particular one, that Diz fired, had a background of heavy studio work in New York. He said to Diz You know I?ve got good time. I've played hundreds of dates with click tracks on jingles. To which Dizzy replied, I know you got good time, I?m waiting for you to do something with it.

Peace

 

Mike Longo

[Jazz+]

dbl post

[Jazz+]

[video:youtube]

[I-missRichardTee]

http://www.mikelongojazz.com/mike-longo-trio-plays-con-alma/

I have been playing this tune lately.. check it out. The drummer played with Oscar Peterson and Lester Young... Ray Mosca.

[I-missRichardTee]

One last one .. I really liked this one Good Bait by Tadd Dameron

http://www.mikelongojazz.com/mike-longo-trio-plays-good-bait-at-sandovals-in-miami-beach-2007/

[Joe Muscara]

I hope this is cool with the moderators

It is Mike's lengthy response to what he read here ,

Here is is as sent to me tonight sept 11

 

To all my fellow keyboardists, I enjoyed the lively discussion here about my metronome article and all of the varied opinions, although I didn?t agree with most of them. There was one, however, that was a bit annoying to me as follows:

I sent the article to my piano teacher, who is a decent jazz musician in his own right to say the least. In fact, like Longo, he also played with Dizzy Gillespie.

"I strongly disagree. And if he's calling me a white cat who doesn't swing, I challenge him to a duel."

First of all, in my article, the reference to white cats who can?t swing was not made by me but by Cannonball Adderley. The next part of this post that I take umbrage with is: In fact, like Longo, he also played with Dizzy Gillespie.

My relationship with Dizzy spanned a 26-year period, 9 of which were full time as his pianist and musical director. The rest were on a part time basis until his death in 1993. We toured about 48 weeks a year not to mention the countless hours I practiced with him with just trumpet and piano at his pad in Jersey. The hours I spent playing with him were in the thousands. As a matter of fact, the last notes he played on this planet were with me. My point is like Longo he also played with Dizzy Gillespie sounds like a gross exaggeration. It is very amusing to me how as soon as Dizzy died, cats started coming out of the wood work claiming they played with Dizzy Gillespie. Some of them may have hit with him once or twice because he would sit in with cats on the jazz cruises as well as other situations and sometimes he would do clinics where he would play with the local cats. These were gigs that Dizzy referred to as Take the money and run gigs. The historical lineage of Gillespie pianist as far back as let?s say Wade Legge reads something like this. Wynton Kelly; Juniou Mance; Lalo Shifferin; Kenny Baron; Mike Longo; Walter Davis Jr; and Danilo Perez. All but one of these, who was hired by a contractor, were pianists that got a call from Dizzy personally saying in effect I want you! There were a few that were only there for a hot minute because Dizzy let them go so they don?t count. The point being, I think I would know if a pianist played with Dizzy or not. I?m not suggesting that anyone a liar but someone seems to be stretching the truth a bit here. (: The last thing I will address is the statement I challenge him to a duel. This tells me that this person didn?t know Dizzy at all because he had a great disdain for anyone who expressed this type of an attitude. For one thing it is baby stuff. Diz had too much respect for this music to condone its use in this fashion. It is just like the childish and juvenile stuff you see on all the jazz chat sites with musicians expressing contempt towards each other with such sad ideas like: I play better than you, I know more about jazz than you do, My favorite piano player plays better than your favorite piano player and on an on with this jive rhetoric. Usually it is the sign of musicians who are frustrated with their own inadequacies. I personally have never exalted myself above any musician and have only competed with my own weaknesses. My reason for playing this music has always been to bring as much joy and happiness to listeners as I could. Dizzy once said his music was about absolute love for every man, woman, child, gay and lesbian on the planet. We should all learn a lesson from that. As far as the metronome is concerned I will share another Dizzy story with you. During my tenure as his pianist we went through about nine different bass players. One particular one, that Diz fired, had a background of heavy studio work in New York. He said to Diz You know I?ve got good time. I've played hundreds of dates with click tracks on jingles. To which Dizzy replied, I know you got good time, I?m waiting for you to do something with it.

Peace

 

Mike Longo

So of everything that was posted here, Longo responds to this??? Hmph.

 

Now I'm trying to decide if I'm going to tell him what he said or leave it alone. *I* posted what my teacher thread for the humor as well as to make my point. Going off like Longo did here makes me think he has some issues...

[Steve Force]

Reposting what I perceive to be a private message publicly? If this is the case, dude, you need a reality check.

[I-missRichardTee]

Certainly a new view -- Mike Longo says No.

 

http://www.mikelongojazz.com/should-you-practice-jazz-with-a-metronome/

 

I could certainly be dismissive of the comment as I expect most to be. But Mike Longo is no slouch. So it makes me wonder if I'm missing something.

 

Mike asked me to post this. Many pov in this world. I did what I was asked. Can we exit the "school yard" now, and get back on track? Namely Mike's idea about metronome use. I included a few tracks I never heard before and was pleasantly surprised. Development of swing, is only part of the results of following Dizzy's lead. Mike used to say to me, you want to know how to improvise like Charlie Parker, not merely imitate him. Mike always said as in DVD 1, there is WHAT you play- melody harmony rhythm etc and - HOW you play it. The DVD deals with the HOW you play aspect. This is the elusive part, that Mike says academia is missing. I quite agree. Most methods do not deal with How you play rhythm... jazz rhythm. Hal and Mike are consummate jazz players who are in concert essentially. If you don't like Mike's/ Dizzy's method, ignore it.. as most here are doing.

[Steve Force]

If he wanted something posted he would have done so himself. Personally, I could give a rats ass about using a metronome or not, but dude, rethink your public posting approach.

[Jazz+]

Did anybody read master Steve Coleman's series of articles on Charlie Parker's rhythmic phrasing that I linked? They are vastly incisive and beyond any analysis offered by Gillespie.

[Joe Muscara]

If he wanted something posted he would have done so himself. Personally, I could give a rats ass about using a metronome or not, but dude, rethink your public posting approach.

I agree with what you're saying in concept, Steve, but read how Longo's message starts.

To all my fellow keyboardists, I enjoyed the lively discussion here about my metronome article and all of the varied opinions, although I didn?t agree with most of them. There was one, however, that was a bit annoying to me as follows:

It seems to me he was addressing us in that reply, not just John (aka IMRT).

[Steve Force]

I stand on my comment. Reposting a PM is IMO extremely bad form.

[I-missRichardTee]

Re Steve Coleman: I read all the short excerpts and then went to where his comments were posted, so yes... but he is analyzing . not showing the How of Bird and Dizzy.

Dizzy showed Mike How.

[I-missRichardTee]

Steve F, Joe M, Mike asked me to post his response here. That's the end of it, from my perspective. It was not private in any way. If neither of you agree, you can take it up with him. I thought this was a thread that directly involved a method that Mike teaches and embodies in his playing. Try the method or don't; no skin off my dog in this fight.

[Jazz+]

Re Steve Coleman: I read all the short excerpts and then went to where his comments were posted, so yes... but he is analyzing . not showing the How of Bird and Dizzy.

Dizzy showed Mike How.

 

Good for him. But, so what? Musical analysis is the attempt to answer the question HOW does this music work.

 

[Jazz+]

Bottom line: Should You Practice Jazz with a Metronome?

 

It's up to you! There is no right or wrong way. The metronome can't hurt a player.

 

And of course, the metronome is helpful for players with bad time that need to work on improving their pulse and subdivisions.

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

Steve F, Joe M, Mike asked me to post his response here. That's the end of it, from my perspective. It was not private in any way. If neither of you agree, you can take it up with him. I thought this was a thread that directly involved a method that Mike teaches and embodies in his playing. Try the method or don't; no skin off my dog in this fight.

I don't have any issues with you posting what Mike replied here, especially now that you've confirmed that he asked you to.

 

As far as me having issues or disagreements with what he said, that's another matter.

[I-missRichardTee]

Re Steve Coleman: I read all the short excerpts and then went to where his comments were posted, so yes... but he is analyzing . not showing the How of Bird and Dizzy.

Dizzy showed Mike How.

 

Good for him. So what? Musical analysis is the attempt to answer the question HOW does this music work.

 

Analysis is a vital practice in music and in life.. we agree, so far! But analysis has limits, don't you think? There are situations where analysis is the right path. Conversely there are situations where curtailing analysis in favor of another modality is preferred. Obviously, Mike and Dizzy and Mike's students do not think learning about be bop type swing, is a place for much analysis.. a little, sure, but fundamentally no. We think PLAYING the Drum- what Dizzy suggests, is the way, not so much thinking and analyzing.

Another example, driving a car. Some analysis is fine, but nothing like driving a car to learn about driving. There are a series of books called The Inner Game of Tennis, Golf, and maybe Music if memory serves. There is a point made in the book about the mind getting in the way of performance. This is not a perfect analogy, but reminds of the limits of analysis. The author says you would NOT take a tennis lesson just before a tournament!!

We all want to be successful in our endeavors.. I want to swing and create in a manner similar to Bird, Diz and Mike. Their music is rooted in discoveries made 60+ years ago. I consider those early discoveries germane to my development. While I also have great admiration for more modern approaches to jazz, like other icons for me, Herbie, Chick, and another McCoy, my immediate goal is Bird, but translated to the piano. Not what Bird played, but what was going on within him ( aka HOW he created his lines ) rhythmically, that made these lines possible. Playing the drum is in my opinion more typical of an African approach than analyzing it; which I take to be more of the European side of jazz. Analysis is one aspect to music development, one, not the whole.

This thread uses a word that has more than one meaning; maybe as many meanings as there are people who use the term... the term is jazz.

To me Bird is the epitome of jazz... few players today are in the ultra high place, I categorize him in. If Bird is not that for you.. then what Mike Longo says has less relevance. But since Mike's derivation of Dizzy is the heart of this thread, I perhaps mistakenly assumed that it was relevant to add the posts i added here. I am beyond pleased that Mike showed up in my life. I thought I would "pull your coat", regarding the gems of wisdom in this method. Feel free to ignore it.

[Jazz+]

Well you have not enlightened me with anything I didn't already know. And I am even less interested than before to pay to get Mike's secrets. I already have great rhythm and I don't need some DVD to get the "How". This sort of reminds me of EST.

[I-missRichardTee]

Well you have not enlightened me with anything I didn't already know. And I am even less interested than before to pay to get Mike's secrets.

I am not a salesman.. I am an honest appreciator of a method that I have repeatedly said, is NOT teachable in a forum. Take it or leave it, as the expression goes.. edit it is not within my capacity to "enlighten" a person who will not follow a simple suggestion. Listen and follow the DVD's the method ITSELF is the enlightening agent... not words typed on a computer.

[Jazzwee]

I was hoping Mike Longo would give some specific answers about what was discussed here. At least apparently he responded here:

 

http://www.mikelongojazz.com/mike-longo-answering-comments-about-metronome-article/

 

 

[I-missRichardTee]

I was hoping Mike Longo would give some specific answers about what was discussed here. At least apparently he responded here:

 

http://www.mikelongojazz.com/mike-longo-answering-comments-about-metronome-article/

 

 

Mike and my words are here and on his blog and on his DVD's , for anyone with an open mind to see. But I have no wish to get too personal here.. I know Mike's character, and I respect him as such.

[Jazzwee]

Mike Longo Answering Comments About Metronome Article

(paragraphs added for readability)

 

This is a post I made on Hal Galpers Face Book Page. Hal shared my metronome article to his followers and stated that he agreed with everything I said. This provoked a lot of responses on his site. Many of them were positive and in support of what I said. To answer some of those who were in disagreement I posted the following:

 

I greatly appreciate all of the responses to my article on the metronome usage and many of them have come from musicians I have a high degree of respect and admiration for. I cant help but notice, however, that no one seems to be addressing the arguments I made to support my opinions. Not my opinions only but the opinions voiced by the musical greats that Hal has pointed out above. One post pointed out something along the lines that how can you play all around the beat if you dont know where the beat is or something to that effect.

 

I am para phrasing of course. IMHO for this to be valid, one would have to accept that a metronome clicking is a beat in the first place. A musical beat that you play music to. Another post stated that no one can describe what a Pulse is. To me a pulse is the sound your heart makes when it is beating.

 

I am not speaking of tempo here because once a pulse is established as the time unit one can move it up or down to any tempo they so desire. Another post went so far as to say that no one can ever achieve greatness as a musician unless they practice with a metronome. In the article I pointed out the fact that the metronome wasnt invented until Beethovens life time.

 

Does this mean that all of the musicians who preceded him, Bach, Handel, Hayden, Mozart and others had bad time and were unable to achieve greatness? Since we live in a free society, no one has the right to tell another person how they can play a musical instrument or how they can practice one for that matter. In no way was my article intended to do so. The points I made however, to be disagreed with, should be addressed with an explanation of why they are not valid. For example, I pointed out that one can take the most swinging record from the past that has passed the test of time and there is no way you can get a metronome to stay in sync with the music.

 

Now Ive heard a lot of explanations for this about how players go a little ahead or behind when they play and on and on. But one thing is for sure. When they made the record there was a person sitting behind a drum set and not a metronome on stage. The fact that they are all playing together and grooving to that extent seems to suggest that there was some sort of internal thing they all had in common. There is a book called The Power of Music (I dont recall the author off hand) that points out the premise that our sense of time in music is established while in the womb listening to the heart beat of our mother.

 

A lot of references were made to prominent musicians who practiced with a metronome as well. I will quote a couple of jazz musicians Ive known. Dizzy Reece for instance stated, A metronome is not natural. Dizzy Gillespie stated, A metronome will make you play stiff.

 

I have an experience that one could try that might shock and amaze you. Try putting on a stethoscope and while listening to your heart beat see if you can get a metronome to sync up to it. It might even be feasible that trying to sync your time feel to a metronome clicking could be bad for your health. I am being facetious of course, but could there be a connection? I have often wondered about all of the young kids shooting up places and causing mayhem might have some connection to the music they are listening to with the drum machines. As Dizzy Reece feels, it is not natural.

 

I know a lot of references were made to Michael Brecker, who I loved, and how he practiced with a metronome. I also recall a statement he made that playing with a metronome depressed him. He attributed it to the idea that he was rushing. Could it have been that was not the case at all? Does the possibility exist that he might have been attempting to do something unnatural as Dizzy Reece described it? I dont know, but it is food for thought.

 

Please understand that I do not mean any disrespect for those who disagree with these ideas. Its just my opinions that are in the article. I do know that the grooves we used to hit with Dizzy and Moody sure felt like a heart beat and not a clock ticking.

[Dave Ferris]

I used to use the metronome almost full time when practicing. From working on major scales and finger exercises from more Classical lessons with Terry Trotter to learning and playing transcribed solos of the masters --Bird, Bud, Clifford, Rollins, Wynton Kelly, Sonny Clark, Tommy Flanagan, Hank Jones, etc.--for my lessons with Charlie Shoemake. I would do almost all my practicing/blowing on tunes with the metronome too.

 

These days (probably the last 10-15 years or so), I would say it accounts for maybe only 10-15% of my practice time. I was using it yesterday as a matter of fact, but only on tunes that I'd take super uptempo--around 152-160 for the half note.

 

I think I did maybe 10-15 minutes total on some Bb Rhythm changes, Cherokee in Bb, then took the tempo down about 30 notches and worked on it in B. I think the last 5 minutes or so I tried "Just one of those things" at around 166 for the half. At that tempo it becomes very difficult to hear and keep the click on 2 & 4..it very easily can turn into 1 & 3.

 

But that's how I incorporate these days. More to set a very fast tempo and see if I can hang with it while still staying relaxed and retaining the fluidity in my lines.

 

I also think playing along with a just drummer on play- alongs is excellent too. This gives you more space then just a metronome and you play alot different as well.

 

The Paul Carmen series of CDs with my friend Kendall Kay on drums is highly recommended (I've posted about this a few times here). I just wish he'd come out with some new ones, particularly the ECM straight 8ths.

http://www.paulcarman.com/store/home.php

[Jazzwee]

My question for Mike Longo, if he continues to read this is:

 

If you don't recommend a Metronome for Practice, then what is the alternative to develop good time?

 

Let me see if I can try to understand it a little in relation to swing and combining this with my own analysis.

 

I heard terms like being "stiff" and "rushing". I sort of understand the stiffness part since as I've discovered, there's a certain looseness to the position of the downbeat (dragging) while the upbeat is synchronized to the "pulse" in some way.

 

If in fact the pulse is not metronome exact, then it would suggest that the upbeat (3rd of the triplet) continues to be fixed, but in a manner "relative" to the pulse. At least that's my theory on how swing works.

 

So this would imply that during live play constant micro readjustments occur if the pulse is changing a little. I suppose that would require a different sort of practice since basically you can't rely on your internal metronome trained pulse but the "group" pulse or an "external" pulse.

 

Of course I already know this happens because my own band will waver on time throughout the tune. I accept that's natural. I'm just thinking though that the metronome is an external beat. By the same token, a rhythm section is an external beat. Practicing to such an external beat can help one listen and react, and learn to micro-adjust the time.

 

Since we all play in a combination of live band playing and woodshedding at home, I still don't understand how a Metronome can hurt. It isn't the only environment where we play and allows to react to an external beat. (aside from other methods like rhythm backing tracks).

 

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding completely. Is it being suggested that in playing jazz, we're supposed to be a little bit looser with time both on the upbeat and downbeat?

 

I guess, we are all just looking for specifics.

 

 

 

 

[Jazz+]

These guys saying don't ever use the metronome already have great time. As teachers, they seem to simply ignore those students that need remedial work with keeping in time. And there is an agenda to sell their method.

[GovernorSilver]

The Paul Carmen CDs look interesting.

[Jazz+]

 

"If in fact the pulse is not metronome exact, then it would suggest that the upbeat (3rd of the triplet) continues to be fixed, but in a manner "relative" to the pulse. At least that's my theory on how swing works."

 

Fact: The pulse is not metronome exact in live human musical performance. The pulse always fluctuates to some degree when humans play music. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. The upbeat will also shift if the pulse is shifting. For example a jazz tune starts around 144 bpm and increases to 160 bpm by the end of the tune, then the up-beats will also shift relative to the down-beats. This is not a bad thing and happens with jazz masters.

 

"So this would imply that during live play constant micro readjustments occur if the pulse is changing a little. I suppose that would require a different sort of practice since basically you can't rely on your internal metronome trained pulse but the "group" pulse or an "external" pulse."

 

Yes, good musicians usually go with the flow of the "pulse". This is one of the main problems of playing with metronomes. It's simply not natural compared to what actually occurs in live music when human beings play.

 

"Of course I already know this happens because my own band will waver on time throughout the tune. I accept that's natural. I'm just thinking though that the metronome is an external beat. By the same token, a rhythm section is an external beat. Practicing to such an external beat can help one listen and react, and learn to micro-adjust the time. "

 

Yes.

 

"Since we all play in a combination of live band playing and wood shedding at home, I still don't understand how a Metronome can hurt. It isn't the only environment where we play and allows to react to an external beat. (aside from other methods like rhythm backing tracks)."

 

It doesn't hurt. Some folks, who already have great time, simply don't recommend it for some reasons.

 

"Or maybe I'm misunderstanding completely. Is it being suggested that in playing jazz, we're supposed to be a little bit looser with time both on the upbeat and downbeat?"

 

When the pulse is shifting, the upbeats will also shift.

 

 

[I-missRichardTee]

My question for Mike Longo, if he continues to read this is:

 

If you don't recommend a Metronome for Practice, then what is the alternative to develop good time?

 

Let me see if I can try to understand it a little in relation to swing and combining this with my own analysis.

 

I heard terms like being "stiff" and "rushing". I sort of understand the stiffness part since as I've discovered, there's a certain looseness to the position of the downbeat (dragging) while the upbeat is synchronized to the "pulse" in some way.

 

If in fact the pulse is not metronome exact, then it would suggest that the upbeat (3rd of the triplet) continues to be fixed, but in a manner "relative" to the pulse. At least that's my theory on how swing works.

 

So this would imply that during live play constant micro readjustments occur if the pulse is changing a little. I suppose that would require a different sort of practice since basically you can't rely on your internal metronome trained pulse but the "group" pulse or an "external" pulse.

 

Of course I already know this happens because my own band will waver on time throughout the tune. I accept that's natural. I'm just thinking though that the metronome is an external beat. By the same token, a rhythm section is an external beat. Practicing to such an external beat can help one listen and react, and learn to micro-adjust the time.

 

Since we all play in a combination of live band playing and woodshedding at home, I still don't understand how a Metronome can hurt. It isn't the only environment where we play and allows to react to an external beat. (aside from other methods like rhythm backing tracks).

 

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding completely. Is it being suggested that in playing jazz, we're supposed to be a little bit looser with time both on the upbeat and downbeat?

 

I guess, we are all just looking for specifics.

 

 

Stiff and rushing... those terms mean something to me. Do they mean something to you? I mean viscerally, not just cold words on a screen.

PLAYING the drum withOUT a metronome guys Playing the drum will improve your swing feeling AND your sense of steady time. Steady time by itself is not enough. I have fairly steady time, if the words of fellow musicians are any gauge. I always think I can be more steady, but I am fairly steady. What is a greater concern for me is the depth of swing. The stuff that my favorite players just ooze ... Louis A Ray Brown, Oscar, Herbie, Benson, etc.

BTW the hardest thing to make feel good is a slooow tempo.

JUST steadiness is an accomplishment, but to make it feel good, or dancable, or irresistible, is another matter. This is where playing Drum thing comes in.. and it is not esp discussable thing. You have to do it!! I recommend this to all jazz players. Sonny Rollins referred to Dizzy as The King, for valid reason.