Nord Electro 4d vs Nord Stage 2

[ChewisLewis]

Deciding between the Nord electro 4d and Nord stage 2... Is it really worth paying extra for the stage? Will it stand out more than the electro? As always, I appreciate everyone's feedback...

[johnchop]

Did you compare the feature sets? What's undecided based on that comparison?

 

Certainly, if you don't need the synth engine, or have certain # of keys requirements, that could rule one in or out.

[AnotherScott]

Electro 4D = upgraded organ sound, real drawbars, lightest weight

 

Nord Stage 2 = ability to split/layer sounds, more sample memory to hold more/bigger sounds, aftertouch, pitch bend and mod wheel, MIDI controller functions, virtual analog synthesizer functions

 

It's not a matter of "standing out," it's a matter of your need to have the additional sounds and functions.

[RedKey]

The Stage 2 is certainly worth more. Worth paying more totally depends on you and a lot of information you have not shared with us. What do you mean by "stand out more"? Visually? No. To the audience they look the same. Sound? Organs and Pianos individually used? No.

The difference (and it's a big difference) is in the ability to split and layer sounds and have a pretty nice little synth section with real time controls.

The Electro allows a single engine at a time. Piano(ep's, clav, & samples) or Organ.

The Stage allows up to six engines at a time layered or split.

Two Organs, Two Pianos(ep's & clavs), and two synths(and samples)

[voxpops]

I'm beginning to wonder whether the Nord mojo (no pun intended) is beginning to wear a little thin. Don't get me wrong, I think they're great boards, but being a boutique manufacturer doesn't absolve you of needing to keep up with the competition.

 

Nord Electro: $2200+ = one sound at a time; no pitch bend/mod; very limited synth functionality; EPs that are essentially past their sell-by date; very limited memory (4D).

 

Nord Stage 2: circa $4000 = no upgraded C2D organ engine; so-so Fatar action; same EP issues as the Electro.

 

There is still some Nord magic there, but IMO there has been a lack of attention by Clavia to their core market recently, while other manufacturers have been pressing ahead with some great value offerings, even if some have been cutting corners a little too aggressively.

 

Edit: So to answer the OP's question, yes the Stage 2 gets you a LOT more, unless you need the best Nord B3/Leslie emulation, but I would be inclined to look for something used.

[Tonysounds]

Nah. Nord doesn't dilute their product line. You get the ala carte machine (Electro), or you get the entree machine (Stage). And then they have a dessert (Nord Lead4).

 

 

KoRoYama are more like car lines: you get the Limited, the Brougham, or the Executive edition (think MOX/Motif, or Krome/Kronos, etc.), and theyre all relatively capable machines with a lot of overlap in functionality separated by a list of bells n whistles. COMPLETELY different approach to the business.

 

And if you think Nord has been ignoring anyone, youve missed their constant (Free) updates in OS and sounds for both the Electro and Stage lines.

 

 

 

[Tonysounds]

And to be clear, while there is some improvement in the organ engine, those improvements do not have me pining for a better organ in the Stage at all. And as always, one mans improvement is another mans aww, WTF did they do THAT for?

 

I see more and MORE Nords onstage than ever before.

 

[spazzkey]

I'd concur with johnchop and anotherscott - valid and important considerations...

 

and apologies for digressing here - just wanted to share my personal evolution as a longtime stage and stage2 user - which is why this thread caught my eye - both boards I have loved playing solo to 9 piece in a full range of venues, lately I have found myself wanting real drawbars for my b3 playing - started looking at the 4d as a second board on top of the NS2 - which would also open up playing pianos and organ at the same time...

 

but that led me to the hammond sk1 (cheaper, and by some accounts, better sounding - disclaimer: I am running through a vent) -

 

and then the casio px5s was released - light, cheap, great action, from all accounts decent synth, superior AP's (the nords are notoriously weak in the upper registers to my ears)...

 

check out Jim Alfredson's new rig thread... my new rig debuted tonight

 

anyway - that's where I am headed... those 2 boards together will cost much less than a stage2 and not much more than a 4d - and either one will suffice for rehearsals at a much lower weight than the stage2... possibly worth considering in your case... have fun!

[timwat]

Great analysis of Clavia's market strategy, Tony.

 

Along those lines, Nord also offers the "I only need...." market with the C2 and the Nord Piano.

[voxpops]

And if you think Nord has been ignoring anyone, youve missed their constant (Free) updates in OS and sounds for both the Electro and Stage lines.

 

 

The OS updates often include increased functionality as well as bug fixes, which is extremely welcome (especially as they usually deal rapidly with known issues), and a lot better than the competition. But the fixation with endless single-layer samples of patches from old synths, but no new and detailed EPs to compete with the excellent Korg and Yamaha models, is baffling, IMO.

[Dana.]

But the fixation with endless single-layer samples of patches from old synths, but no new and detailed EPs to compete with the excellent Korg and Yamaha models is baffling, IMO.

I think Nord's Bright Tines and Sparkletop sounds compete with Korg and Yamaha just fine. In fact, I prefer them to anything stock in the Kronos.

[voxpops]

I think Nord's Bright Tines and Sparkletop sounds compete with Korg and Yamaha just fine. In fact, I prefer them to anything stock in the Kronos.

Sorry, still prefer my SV-1 for EPs, and there are some excellent ones on the Krome, too. But it's all a matter of preference, and I do enjoy the Nord's EPs as well, but would like a really good, reworked MkI that sounds as alive as the Fazioli/Bosendorfer.

[AnotherScott]

Nord Electro: $2200+ = one sound at a time; no pitch bend/mod; very limited synth functionality; EPs that are essentially past their sell-by date; very limited memory (4D).

OTOH, the only boards that arguably may give you a better organ for less money are the SK1 and Numa Organ, and neither of them gives you the Nord's pianos (or sample library). Yes, they do have some advantages of their own. But while you can say the Nord seems high priced, I think the fact remains, if you want a quality organ and a quality piano (and don't need to play them at the same time), I don't think you can find comparable for less.

[voxpops]

Nord Electro: $2200+ = one sound at a time; no pitch bend/mod; very limited synth functionality; EPs that are essentially past their sell-by date; very limited memory (4D).

OTOH, the only boards that arguably may give you a better organ for less money are the SK1 and Numa Organ, and neither of them gives you the Nord's pianos (or sample library). Yes, they do have some advantages of their own. But while you can say the Nord seems high priced, I think the fact remains, if you want a quality organ and a quality piano (and don't need to play them at the same time), I don't think you can find comparable for less.

 

That's a very good point, Scott. The VR-09 arguably offers greater functionality, but at the price of sound and keyboard quality. The SK-1 has not wowed many people with its non-organ sounds. So from that standpoint, the Electro is still a good deal. However, with Casio gearing up to attack pro territory, and new offerings due from Kurzweil and Yamaha, I don't think Nord can afford to rest on their laurels.

[Dana.]

I think Nord's Bright Tines and Sparkletop sounds compete with Korg and Yamaha just fine. In fact, I prefer them to anything stock in the Kronos.

Sorry, still prefer my SV-1 for EPs, and there are some excellent ones on the Krome, too. But it's all a matter of preference, and I do enjoy the Nord's EPs as well, but would like a really good, reworked MkI that sounds as alive as the Fazioli/Bosendorfer.

Bright Tines and Sparkletop vs. SV-1 and Krome is an apples to oranges comparison considering they're different models. Setting that aside, Nord's original Mark I sample is what, 10 years old? It could stand to be updated, as could the Wurli, or at least Nord could offer a different model Wurli.

[allan_evett]

I think Nord's Bright Tines and Sparkletop sounds compete with Korg and Yamaha just fine. In fact, I prefer them to anything stock in the Kronos.

Sorry, still prefer my SV-1 for EPs, and there are some excellent ones on the Krome, too. But it's all a matter of preference, and I do enjoy the Nord's EPs as well, but would like a really good, reworked MkI that sounds as alive as the Fazioli/Bosendorfer.

Bright Tines and Sparkletop vs. SV-1 and Krome is an apples to oranges comparison considering they're different models. Setting that aside, Nord's original Mark I sample is what, 10 years old? It could stand to be updated, as could the Wurli, or at least Nord could offer a different model Wurli.

 

+1, especially with regard to the Wurli sample. My Stage 2 definitely has the upper hand when it comes to electromechanical tones; most of the sounds have a definitive presence, yet retain an organic flavor. But a new, Wurli alternative would be great. Lately I've been finding the 200A sound in my JP-50 preferable in several instances.

[Tonysounds]

Clav. Nord, just sayin.

[ChewisLewis]

I appreciate everybodys' thoughts! Will you think the stage 2 not having drawbars will be a major negative for me? What do they do?

[AnotherScott]

If you don't know what the drawbars do, I kind of wonder how you arrived at narrowing down your selection to the Electro 4D and the Stage 2 in the first place. What exactly are you looking to do with this keyboard?

 

The short answer to your question, though, is that the drawbars manipulate parameters of the organ sound. The Stage 2 uses buttons for the same purpose, though in a slightly more limited fashion. (There is also an after market drawbar module you can add to the Stage 2 if you later decide you really want them.)

[Joe Muscara]

The Stage 2 uses buttons for the same purpose, though in a slightly more limited fashion.

How are the buttons "more limited"? The way you've written this makes it sound like the buttons don't do as much as drawbars or sliders. I know you know that isn't the case. They do the same thing, just not as conveniently.

[allan_evett]

Clav. Nord, just sayin.

 

That too....

[Tonysounds]

If you have to ask what the drawbars do, then NO they will not prove an impediment to you at all.

 

I prefer drawbars, and the buttons havent slowed me down. And in fact, with the morph wheel you can do drawbar shifts that you just cant do with real drawbars.

 

[AnotherScott]

The Stage 2 uses buttons for the same purpose, though in a slightly more limited fashion.

How are the buttons "more limited"? The way you've written this makes it sound like the buttons don't do as much as drawbars or sliders. I know you know that isn't the case. They do the same thing, just not as conveniently.

As I said, I was giving him the short version. But since you asked, ;-)

 

Drawbuttons are fine for setting up presets in advance and saving them, but are limited in their real-time use from the perspective of those who want to adjust drawbars as they play, as they would on a traditional drawbar organ. In "fast" mode, drawbuttons can effectively only be used to set drawbars to their Min and Max settings... that's all some people need, but many people make use of more subtle and/or gradual changes. But then in "slow" mode, you often can't get something where you want it to be fast enough (i.e. if you DO quickly want it all the way in or all the way out). Clicking the buttons just doesn't give you the kind of control you can get out of sliders, and in that respect, I would say the functionality is more limited. But of course not everyone's playing style requires this kind of control.

[Tonysounds]

I never experienced a problem doing slow or fast shifts. I've had a few sets of OB bars, and Voce bars, and the added ability wasnt worth the hassle of bringing/wiring them up.

 

And I can grab a handful of buttons simultaneously to adjust, just like drawbars.

[Phred]

ChewisLewis,

 

The following explanation isn't exactly accurate, but it helped me when I was first starting out.

 

Think of drawbars as being a (sortof) EQ for organ. Just as an EQ curve will 'shape' your tone, so will the drawbars. However, unlike an EQ which accentuate/diminish frequencies that are actually there in the base tone, drawbars actually add/remove harmonic frequencies to your organ tone. Use the right drawbars/buttons to add/remove high harmonics to your organ tone. The left ones for lower ones.

 

I way prefer drawbars, but I don't hate drawbuttons. For me, the hardest thing to do well with drawbuttons is the 'grab-a-bunch-of-bars-and-move-some-in-and-some-out-at-the-same-time' thing. It's something that's pretty easy to do with bars, as you just kinda gradually shape your hand into the curve you want. I haven't found an easy/intuitive way to do it with draw buttons.

 

One nice thing about drawbuttons instead of bars is that LEDs are instantly correct when you switch patches. That's something that I wonder about wrt the Electro 4D (I own an Electro 3 - drawbuttons). Say I played a bunch on the organ and change the drawbars, then I play piano. When I go back to organ patch, on my Electro 3, the LEDs will show how my drawbuttons are set. on the 4D, I suspect that they won't match the setting of the patch (is there a way to make it match??).