zoooombiex Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 I have an option to buy an 860 and was hoping someone here had some experience and could chime in. (There's not too much info on the Leslie 860, but I've read what I could find on the internet so far in terms of general opinions.) This one has a tube preamp mod and comes with the external footswitch/preamp, and the price is reasonable. For size and weight reasons, I know I'll never haul a full-size leslie to shows myself. So unless and until roadies come into the picture, most leslies are out for me. But a friend suggested I take a look at the 860, which is only 24x24x19 and under 100 lbs. That's about as much as I'd want to wrestle, but do-able. I'm currently using the vent (with an XK3c) and am very happy with it tone-wise, but I sometimes think at a gig it'd be nice to actually get some air swirling and not just the recorded sound of air swirling. The main thing people seem to say about the 860 is that it doesn't have a lot of bass, but I never play LHB, so as long as the low end is not anemic for general chording purposes I'm probably ok with that. The other thing people mention is that it doesn't have the growl of a tube-amp leslie. I do like a bit of growl, and I really like the vent's OD. So I'm hoping the tube preamp mod can at least get close, maybe in conjunction with the XK3c. I'm sort of on the fence, so any thoughts people have, other things I should consider that I haven't taken into account, etc. would be helpful. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 moving air does not necessarily equate to better tone. The XK3c through the Vent is a great sounding combination, personally I would stick with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 I have an 860. I like it for rock stuff. It is short enough it rolled staight into my old Taruas Wagon. I could carry my whole rig in the Taurus. It worked fine with a tube pre-amp through a effects loop mod I had done. If you are running a vent I am not sure I would bother with a 860. I still use a 860 but it aint stock anymore. It has enough bass if you are working with bassist or use bass patches from a non organ sound source. Horn mic placement needs to be high. The horn sits at a 30 degree upward angle. in order to make everything fit. ... well you have a Vent so don't even mic it. It gets loud. Its sound quality really depends on the room and placement like any cabinet but it really makes a difference IMO with the 860 due to the cabinet's shortcomings. The Leslie like corners. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 I gigged with a Motion Sound LowPro/Pro3T which uses a tube pre-amp and a solid state power amp (Just like the 860 you might purchase). I do like the sound of moving air and in a corner of the room (which is where I have it in my basement connected to my L100-p) I like how it sounds. Unfortunately it does not sound like my 122 which has the tube power amp. I just can't get that tube amp OD out of it, instead I get that solid state distortion. The Vent actually does a better job of simulating the power amp tube overdrive. Would I get an 860? Yep. I would first look to a 122 or 147 and if they were out of reach or unavailable then I'd look to an 860. Perhaps you can rig the chain of organ --> Vent on stop mode (providing the overdrive) --> 860. Wonder what that would sound like? I would say that for a gig I wouldn't bother with the 860, as the Vent does the job, but for home I still like the real leslie. Go for it. 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 If you get it remember there is a design flaw, the plastic near the handles becomes brittle and cracks with age. I realize it is cosmetic but it is a reoccurring problem we see with 330 and 860 models. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3Nut Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Any of the ProLine Leslies from that era have crappy handles. They break rather easily, they weren't well-designed at all. That's been a bugbear with my 760. One of 'em broke right off. TP --- Todd A. Phipps "...no, I'm not a Hammondoholic...I can stop anytime..." http://www.facebook.com/b3nut ** http://www.blueolives.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Invest in a Speakeasy 122/AMA. Right after I posted this I went to their website. Unfortunately Speakeasy does not sell them anymore. Maybe you can find a tube pre-amp on eBay or another site, Goff? "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 The 860 he's buying has been modified with a tube frontend so a pre-amp won't do as much good as a tube amp on the back end which the 860 lacks. Run it through an old fender bassman tube amp and let that drive the leslie as the power amp. 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I would say that for a gig I wouldn't bother with the 860, as the Vent does the job, but for home I still like the real leslie. Go for it. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoooombiex Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 The 860 he's buying has been modified with a tube frontend so a pre-amp won't do as much good as a tube amp on the back end which the 860 lacks. Run it through an old fender bassman tube amp and let that drive the leslie as the power amp. Interesting. I actually use a bassman at gigs for my Rhodes/clav, etc. (and currently using with the vent for organ). So it sounds like there is a way to take the speaker out on the bassman and patch into the leslie, bypassing the pre- and power amps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3Nut Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 To run a tube amp like a Bassman into it you'll need a passive crossover like the tube Leslies use, taking the lower impedance of the 860's woofer into account. The 860 is a bi-amped Leslie, with separate amplifiers for the bass driver and horn driver. I don't remember offhand if the 860's woofer is 8 or 4 ohms...many solid-state Leslies use 4-ohm woofers. --- Todd A. Phipps "...no, I'm not a Hammondoholic...I can stop anytime..." http://www.facebook.com/b3nut ** http://www.blueolives.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I thought I could find a YouTube of my 860. I could not find a good one but there is a short clip done on a video camera at a banquet hall with crappy acoustics. I probably shouldn't post it it sounds like poo. It doesn't do the cabinet justice even though it isn't the greatest cabinet. But the cabinet does cut through a rock mix. I just don't use the cabinet much anymore. [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76dPT5L_IKg "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I have an 860. I used to use it quite a bit with a subwoofer. To me it doesn't have enough low end punch in the mid range or the bass but a subwoofer takes care of that. After that ,the 860 comes alive. These days I use a Numa with an internal sim for convienience but if you want a real leslie it's pretty good. It seems to work well with digital organs. My sub and 860 had the same size and weight as something like a 145. But it had a lot more beef.I don't buy that tubes would somehow make it better. The sub did things for it that no tubes ever could, like adding warmth and power. By the way sometimes I have found that tubes equal shrillness. Particularly if you use some of the newer tubes as opposed to classic older ones like Tung Sol etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoooombiex Posted September 4, 2013 Author Share Posted September 4, 2013 I have an 860. I used to use it quite a bit with a subwoofer. To me it doesn't have enough low end punch in the mid range or the bass but a subwoofer takes care of that. After that ,the 860 comes alive. These days I use a Numa with an internal sim for convienience but if you want a real leslie it's pretty good. It seems to work well with digital organs. My sub and 860 had the same size and weight as something like a 145. But it had a lot more beef.I don't buy that tubes would somehow make it better. The sub did things for it that no tubes ever could, like adding warmth and power. By the way sometimes I have found that tubes equal shrillness. Particularly if you use some of the newer tubes as opposed to classic older ones like Tung Sol etc. Thanks for weighing in. Out of curiosity, when you say the bass/low mid was lacking, was it in the range of LHB or even in the middle register of the organ it was weak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 If you see one in person it is an oddball and funny looking. Remember it's the smallest proline Leslie they made. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 It's pretty hard to get left hand bass out of an 860. But also the middle register benefits from having some punch too if you can add a sub. I never really thought about its looks honestly. These days people use all sorts of things,so it is a non issue for me at least. Overall though, another advantage to the 860 is that it is bi amped, which I appreciate to help deal with shrillness issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWkeys Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 I'd stick with the Ventilator, myself, especially if you plan on miking the Leslie. That said, just found a cool link on a refurbished 860, with pics: http://www.dst-engineering.com/tech-leslie.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 The best part about the 860 is the heighth. From my bench it is the prefect height to act as my rack stand. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/CEB2/BDRig2.jpg "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoooombiex Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 I'd stick with the Ventilator, myself, especially if you plan on miking the Leslie. That said, just found a cool link on a refurbished 860, with pics: http://www.dst-engineering.com/tech-leslie.htm Yeah - I came across that too. Very nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderSchoot Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I have to get something of my chest for sure..... I am no organ pro (piano is my main axe), but started to fully explore the clonewheel organ 12 years ago. From an Emu B3, Nord stage, electro3, Numa organ and now a HX3 built into an old XB2. Somewhere along the line I bought and sold a Motion Sound pro-3x and still have a ventilator. I was satisfied, but realised that everything put thorugh a vent turns to gold is a sentimental and false statement if you are looking for a real no compromising Hammond/leslie sound. ''It is all about the leslie'' is also untrue, which I realised after installing HX3. It is ahaed of everything else tonewise...and all who have HX3 share exactly that opinion. Now I had a superb clone running through the vent into a Motion Sound KP500SN (really like that amp for just about everything in a band) I cannot say I wasn't pleased with the sound, because I was, Then I got the oppertunity to buy a leslie 860 in truly mint condition. I bought it despite the fact that the 860 wasn't getting superb reviews.....lack of bass and warmth...so they say. The HX3 has a modelled pre-amp comparable in quality to the vent. ,....overdrive/swell it works flawlessly and substancial. But the highlight is that I was almost emotional to finally hear what real moving air means. Not the gimmick from the Motion Sound pro-3x with its amputated upper horn and crippled bass simulation ...... not the perfectly stereo miked/recording of the vent. I felt the real air and the HX3 screaming and shouting like never before. Men I feel really really blessed......I picked up a second hand XB-2 for cheap, installed HX3, bought a leslie 860 in mint condition and end up with a sound that I personally think is a quantum leap beyond the Numa (I own one here and now)and every other plastic, plunky sounding clone with its internal sim activated. My search is finally over, I tested it tonight for the first time in our rehearsal studio with our bass player and what can I say....I am still amazed by the luxery of sound that I finally have under my finger tips. And yes I like the transistor leslie a whole lot, the sound of the HX3 is balsy, fat, warm and screams all the way without becoming shrill for one second. The whole tonal spectrum is covered. Sorry for this somewhat exagerated post, but I am in clonewheel heaven right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Well, as you can see, reviews are mixed on the 860. The only real support for the 860 comes from users who have heavily modified their rig (I had no idea what the HX3 is until I googled it...would like to know more; and I LOVE the customized Fender Tolex 860). As a straight up amp for your clone....I would stick with the Ventilator. I carried leslies to EVERY gig until my Ventilator. Every now and then I get a hankering to buy another leslie, but when I'm trying to reduce the weight of my keyboards, and eliminate my rack, it seems counter-productive to replace it with a box I can't fit into my car, much less that I want to lift. As long as I'm rambling, if you really want a leslie you can handle, go buy a Model 25 (Orpheus) leslie. They can be had for under $100 (they are pretty worthless), and if you gut it, and build a shelf for the top rotor, you can mount 122 guts inside (the 15" will just barely fit in there, but it WILL fit), and have a great sounding Wooden leslie that you can lift yourself. But at this point in the game...I'm sticking with the Vent. Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Not the gimmick from the Motion Sound pro-3x with its amputated upper horn ?? Stuff and things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Not the gimmick from the Motion Sound pro-3x with its amputated upper horn ?? The MS doesn't have 2 horns, just 1 with a counterweight. Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1 Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6 www.bksband.com www.echoesrocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 And no deflectors. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 FWIW - Just in Case ( everybody here probably knows this) All Leslies only have one horn. The other side is a dummy that acts as a counterbalance so it spins correctly. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 FWIW - Just in Case ( everybody here probably knows this) All Leslies only have one horn. The other side is a dummy that acts as a counterbalance so it spins correctly. Right, hence my "??" above... Stuff and things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I remember reading a review on HC several years ago about the Pro3t(or Pro3tm, or Pro3x, I don't remember which specific model), and the reviewer said negative comments about it because it didn't have 2 horns like a real Leslie. Edit: just found it, it was the Pro 3x. Sound Quality: Motion sound really missed out on a great opportunity to make some good here....instead they failed in some simple yet crucial areas. if you look at a leslie horn (the very thing this unit is trying to simulate) it has 2 horn cones....this motion sound has one...so rather than that nice chop/chop sound, you get the sound of a car engine with a flat battery turning over. Point is, it's fine if people don't like the sound of the MS units. But it ain't because it only has "one horn". Stuff and things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderSchoot Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 FWIW - Just in Case ( everybody here probably knows this) All Leslies only have one horn. The other side is a dummy that acts as a counterbalance so it spins correctly. Yeah, but it was very weird when I opened the Pro-3x to adjust the leslie speed that the dummy horn was absent.....It looked like an amputee in leslieland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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